Scientists don't require time machines to study craters.

[Estrid]

In circumstances like these AV likely feels that by getting "us" to refuse to debate with him he can argue that we are afraid to debate, because we know we have a weak case. I imagine this would be effective with those members and lurkers who believe Darwin did convert on his deathbed.

Then we have the peculiar attitude of the subset of humanity who believe this. Somehow this alleged last minute acceptance of Christ invalidates his lifes work on evolution. It doesn't! The evidence and chain of reasoning he collected and constructed stands apart any personal actions he took. He could have been a wife beater, a bank robber, or a harsh landlord and none of those would have relevance to his evolutionary findings.

Instead we have the precocious young student, engaged as much in hunting and collecting beatles as his studies; the brilliant young scientist collecting a world of experience and observation aboard the Beagle; the cautious researcher patiently exploring the evidence for and the character of the evolutionary process; the startled middle age man who learned he was in danger of losing priority for his findings to Wallace; and the ageing scientist who continued to develop his ideas, despite painful physical conditions and tragic family events. That give us a different, and I think attracitve, view of the man, yet that too does not alter in the slightest the facts of evolution.

The "somehow" referred to is,
I think, that the yecs have zero
facts / data to use.
The excuse that god or the devil, as some have it
( a bit weird those rivals doing the same thing)
falsified all the evidence is among the less
hallucinatory, and, more honest ones.

At least it doesnt involve lying, or distortion and
misrepresentation of material facts.

The obsession with discrediting Darwin is
I think, an earnest conviction that he was actually
a de facto religious /anti christian leader.

IF he had recantrd on his death bed it would be as
if J. Smith had said there were no gold books
it was all a hoax, sorry folks.

Or so that line of dim thought seems to go.

 

[Ophiolite]

The "somehow" referred to is,
I think, that the yecs have zero
facts / data to use.
The excuse that god or the devil, as some have it
( a bit weird those rivals doing the same thing)
falsified all the evidence is among the less
hallucinatory, and, more honest ones.

At least it doesnt involve lying, or distortion and
misrepresentation of material facts.

The obsession with discrediting Darwin is
I think, an earnest conviction that he was actually
a de facto religious /anti christian leader.

IF he had recantrd on his death bed it would be as
if J. Smith had said there were no gold books
it was all a hoax, sorry folks.

Or so that line of dim thought seems to go.

I suspect the motivations vary from person to person, but what you suggest here is certainly plausible.

What pains me is that by focusing on the personality, real or alleged, of Darwin rather than the evidence and character of evolution, yecs diminish humanity's importance by excluding the astounding path that has led from the primeval soup to conscious entities able to investigate and progressively reach an understanding of the universe. It's tragically limiting and negative. If there is a god then he/she/it created a universe with a teleological structure inbuilt, that from a handful of fundamental particles and constants led to intellect and curiosity. What a wonderful process to just toss aside. Sad.

 

[Estrid]

I suspect the motivations vary from person to person, but what you suggest here is certainly plausible.

What pains me is that by focusing on the personality, real or alleged, of Darwin rather than the evidence and character of evolution, yecs diminish humanity's importance by excluding the astounding path that has led from the primeval soup to conscious entities able to investigate and progressively reach an understanding of the universe. It's tragically limiting and negative. If there is a god then he/she/it created a universe with a teleological structure inbuilt, that from a handful of fundamental particles and constants led to intellect and curiosity. What a wonderful process to just toss aside. Sad.

Even for those with intellect so dead as
to be uninterested in such, the lack of
respect for one's ancestors is to me
rather appalling.

All those thousands of generations whose
long struggle made todays yec the comfoftable
possibility it is, just hand waved.

They never existed. It was all a gift.

IF theres a reception line, meet the ancestors
in the sweet by n by, that would be awkward.

 

[sesquiterpene]

Your posting style makes it impossible to debate with you. I could present the clear evidence that you are mistaken and you would simply double down on your original error. It was behaviour like that, from you and others, which led me to abandon this forum for almost six months because of the impact it was having on my mental wellbeing. So, no AV, I do not wish to debate with you on a done deal.

The only reason I registered here was to put AV (and dad, but I don't think he's posting here any longer) on ignore. Try it, it will do wonders for your wellbeing. You won't see any of their posts, only those people who for whatever inexplicable reason are replying to them.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then we have the peculiar attitude of the subset of humanity who believe this. Somehow this alleged last minute acceptance of Christ invalidates his lifes work on evolution. It doesn't! The evidence and chain of reasoning he collected and constructed stands apart any personal actions he took. He could have been a wife beater, a bank robber, or a harsh landlord and none of those would have relevance to his evolutionary findings.

One thing that stood out to me, when I debated this years ago, was the reluctance of academia to agree with me about Darwin converting.

It came across to me that they would much rather say I'm wrong and have me think Darwin went to Hell, than to say I'm right and allow me to think Darwin went to Heaven.

I thought it interesting that they were willing to throw the "Father of Evolution" under the bus, just to be able to say AV1611VET was wrong.

Let's say, just for kicks, that he was indeed a wife beater, a bank robber, and a harsh landlord.

Big deal. He repented.

Now I'll get to see him in Heaven, but unbelievers won't.

 

[AV1611VET]

The obsession with discrediting Darwin is I think, an earnest conviction that he was actually a de facto religious /anti christian leader.

"Discrediting Darwin"?

Interesting word choice.

My wife and I were "discredited" in December of 1981 then, when we both accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

 

[AV1611VET]

I suspect the motivations vary from person to person, but what you suggest here is certainly plausible.

What pains me is that by focusing on the personality, real or alleged, of Darwin rather than the evidence and character of evolution, yecs diminish humanity's importance by excluding the astounding path that has led from the primeval soup to conscious entities able to investigate and progressively reach an understanding of the universe. It's tragically limiting and negative. If there is a god then he/she/it created a universe with a teleological structure inbuilt, that from a handful of fundamental particles and constants led to intellect and curiosity. What a wonderful process to just toss aside. Sad.

Will you at least admit that it would take more power [energy] than this universe can muster to configure itself like it is today under a YEC timeline?

 

[AV1611VET]

The only reason I registered here was to put AV (and dad, but I don't think he's posting here any longer) on ignore.

He's not kidding either!

I've been lurking here for many years (15?) because it's the only place I've seen creationists learn enough science to reject YEC. It doesn't happen anywhere near often enough but that's still pretty good for a discussion forum.

The only reason I finally registered was to put AV and dad on ignore.

Notice the date.

 

[Ophiolite]

The only reason I registered here was to put AV (and dad, but I don't think he's posting here any longer) on ignore. Try it, it will do wonders for your wellbeing. You won't see any of their posts, only those people who for whatever inexplicable reason are replying to them.

Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately, I lack the self discipline to ignore permanently the half of the conversation I am missing when I see responses from members I respect.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The only reason I registered here was to put AV (and dad, but I don't think he's posting here any longer) on ignore. Try it, it will do wonders for your wellbeing. You won't see any of their posts, only those people who for whatever inexplicable reason are replying to them.

Dad bugged out before my interactions w/ him developed to that point. I tried putting the other one on ignore, but he always leaks through (though the new board format at least indicates there was a removed quote and IDs the missing poster. I may have to try it again...