Scientific Noah's flood.

[RocksInMyHead]

No wonder you are a geologist. I generally agree. What you said excludes a good part of hydrothermal deposits (and geode).
But, if so, how would you classify pegmatites or accumulates?
I think there should be a better way to say it.

I don't really know anything about hydrothermal deposits but geodes are not rocks. Geodes are crystal pockets within rocks. You can have a rock with a geode in it, but the geode itself is not a rock.

Pegmatites are rocks - they don't have crystals growing into free space. They tend to have another mineral (usually quartz or feldspar) filling in the spaces around the crystals. Accumulates don't have crystals growing into free space either - they consist of crystals that have settled out of a magma with fluids and/or magma in between. When they solidify, they become one solid rock. Honestly, your previous examples of rock/mineral gray areas were better. Neither of these really falls into the gray area because they nearly always consist of multiple minerals.

 

[RickG]

Where did I say they didn't?

I didn't say you did. I just want it to be understood that there is a significant difference between an "internet scientist", one who gets their information from Google; and an "actual scientist" who spent considerable time in the classroom and field.

 

[RickG]

In Geology which you admit all the time has nothing to do with Biology.

My academic background is in physical earth science, not geology specific. I have made that clear many times on posts here. Those studies include geology, geomorphology, oceanography, and climatology. My area of concentration was paleoclimatology which is a mix of all three.

Where have I said biology has nothing to do with geology? It is an associated science and contributes significantly to paleoclimatology and other earth sciences.

 

[AV1611VET]

I didn't say you did. I just want it to be understood that there is a significant difference between an "internet scientist", one who gets their information from Google; and an "actual scientist" who spent considerable time in the classroom and field.

So, for instance, if a climatologist tells me there's no evidence of a global flood; am I to respect his opinion, based on the fact that he deals with weather patterns?

What if a botanist tells me SN1987A shows deep time?

What if a Ph.D. in zoology tells me buoyancy laws don't allow for people to walk on water?

What if an L.A. detective goes to San Diego to investigate their cold cases?

 

[juvenissun]

I don't really know anything about hydrothermal deposits but geodes are not rocks. Geodes are crystal pockets within rocks. You can have a rock with a geode in it, but the geode itself is not a rock.

Pegmatites are rocks - they don't have crystals growing into free space. They tend to have another mineral (usually quartz or feldspar) filling in the spaces around the crystals. Accumulates don't have crystals growing into free space either - they consist of crystals that have settled out of a magma with fluids and/or magma in between. When they solidify, they become one solid rock. Honestly, your previous examples of rock/mineral gray areas were better. Neither of these really falls into the gray area because they nearly always consist of multiple minerals.

If crystals grew without a limitation of space, we can say that they grew in a free or open space. This would include phenocrysts in igneous rocks. However, we can not name the piece just by the occurrence of phenocrysts. So most igneous rock are still called rocks, not minerals.

Some cumulates have more than 90% euhedral crystals. They did crystallize in an open space. Of course if we considered the interstitial material, one still can argue that they are just rock, but not mineral.

However, a fragment of pegmatite can indeed be taken as a mineral. It may contain one or two minerals and are crystallized in a watery free space. Many large mineral specimens are actually fragments taken from pegmatitic deposits. And yet, pegmatite is always be recognized as rock.

An interesting example is that a fragment of pegmatitic quartz is usually put in a mineral collection for 101 lab. Everyone called it a piece of mineral (milky quartz). But it is a multicrystal grain and is taken from a pegmatite. So, should it be called a rock or just a mineral?

 

[juvenissun]

My academic background is in physical earth science, not geology specific. I have made that clear many times on posts here. Those studies include geology, geomorphology, oceanography, and climatology. My area of concentration was paleoclimatology which is a mix of all three.

Where have I said biology has nothing to do with geology? It is an associated science and contributes significantly to paleoclimatology and other earth sciences.

You can be anything you like to call yourself. The only thing is you need to talk like one.

 

[RickG]

So, for instance, if a climatologist tells me there's no evidence of a global flood; am I to respect his opinion, based on the fact that he deals with weather patterns?

Climatologist do not deal with weather patterns, meteorologists deal with weather patterns. Climate and weather are not the same thing. However, yes! The field of paleoclimatology shows with very robust physical evidence that there has never been a global flood, especially one 4300 years or so ago. This includes the significant information found in ice cores, marine sediment cores, boreholes, stratigraphy, dendochronology and sedimentary petrology.

What if a botanist tells me SN1987A shows deep time?

Most middle school children understand SN1987A and other stellar objects and events demonstrate deep time. Think may a botanist might understand that too?

What if a Ph.D. in zoology tells me buoyancy laws don't allow for people to walk on water?

You are getting ridiculous. Buoyancy laws?

What if an L.A. deective goes to San Diego to investigate their cold cases?

What if the moon is made of green cheese?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

If crystals grew without a limitation of space, we can say that they grew in a free or open space. This would include phenocrysts in igneous rocks. However, we can not name the piece just by the occurrence of phenocrysts. So most igneous rock are still called rocks, not minerals.

Some cumulates have more than 90% euhedral crystals. They did crystallize in an open space. Of course if we considered the interstitial material, one still can argue that they are just rock, but not mineral.

However, a fragment of pegmatite can indeed be taken as a mineral. It may contain one or two minerals and are crystallized in a watery free space. Many large mineral specimens are actually fragments taken from pegmatitic deposits. And yet, pegmatite is always be recognized as rock.

An interesting example is that a fragment of pegmatitic quartz is usually put in a mineral collection for 101 lab. Everyone called it a piece of mineral (milky quartz). But it is a multicrystal grain and is taken from a pegmatite. So, should it be called a rock or just a mineral?

Your previous questions were insightful and thought-provoking. Now it just seems like you're either trying to play "stump the chump" or are asking stupid questions. I'll humor you one last time.

When I talked about free space, I was (a) referring to a crystal growing into open space, as in the case of a geode, or RickG's example, not individual crystals growing in a melt and (b) not using that as my sole definition of a mineral, just as a distinguishing factor for something like a crystal cluster.

Since rocks are made up of minerals, a fragment of rock (i.e. a crystal pulled from a pegmatite) consisting of a single mineral grain would be considered a mineral. We often use rocks or rock fragments in introductory or mineralogy labs, often because they are the easiest way to demonstrate a mineral (i.e. half of the olivine samples in the mineralogy lab I'm teaching now are actually chunks of dunite), but they're never presented as being only that mineral (for example, with the olivine, I tell my students that it is dunite, which is a rock made up of nearly 100% olivine crystals).

 

[juvenissun]

Your previous questions were insightful and thought-provoking. Now it just seems like you're either trying to play "stump the chump" or are asking stupid questions. I'll humor you one last time.

When I talked about free space, I was (a) referring to a crystal growing into open space, as in the case of a geode, or RickG's example, not individual crystals growing in a melt and (b) not using that as my sole definition of a mineral, just as a distinguishing factor for something like a crystal cluster.

Since rocks are made up of minerals, a fragment of rock (i.e. a crystal pulled from a pegmatite) consisting of a single mineral grain would be considered a mineral. We often use rocks or rock fragments in introductory or mineralogy labs, often because they are the easiest way to demonstrate a mineral (i.e. half of the olivine samples in the mineralogy lab I'm teaching now are actually chunks of dunite), but they're never presented as being only that mineral (for example, with the olivine, I tell my students that it is dunite, which is a rock made up of nearly 100% olivine crystals).

In mineral crystallization, the term "free space" means "space free for full crystallization process without geometrical hindrance". The environment for that could be any space occupied by fluid (magma, hydrothermal fluid, water, air). I like this term proposed by you because that eliminated the ambiguity caused by one-mineral rock formed in metamorphic environment.

At an outcrop scale, everything is rock. (Except those giant crystals found in deep cave)

 

[serge546]

In Geology which you admit all the time has nothing to do with Biology.

And he responded to a question that related to geology. And he destroyed Juve, in my opinion. Rick!