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Science vs. Evolution

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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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No i didnt.Anyone can go back and see what you said.I even took the quotes for posterity.You cannot tell whether an individual reproduced from looking at a skull.Whether you meant to agree with me,well...

no,theres no misunderstanding.

That contradicts the other guy and his 0.01%.You see what a problem that is when even naturalists cant agree?

Interesting,so really the fossil record isnt important then.You said 50% a few lines ago.And i realise theres commonalities in our DNA with other animals.

I've already noted that parsing responses into sound bites is a dishonest way of debating so I hope you'll keep that in mind in future replies.

I suppose mischaracterizing it as well as knocking down a straw man. Here's what was Blayz wrote and your response:

You should find another interest. The fossil record is vaguely academically interesting, but it accounts for 0.01% of evidence/the nature of evolution. If you really want to discuss human or any other evolution, get a grounding in genetics.
Noted,so is it safe to say that really when a naturalist wants to defend his position,the fossil record actually doesnt back him?I find it interesting despite the multitudes of fossils discovered,you would say 0.01%

He picked a number at random to try and demonstrate his point (that fossils are only some of the evidence for evolution and that the greater weight is in the genetic evidences. You tried to act like this meant there was a death of evidence or conclusions we can draw from the fossils. While fossilization is rare and we'd love to have more fossils, there are, when you include invertebrates, literally mountains of them and they provide fabulous amounts of evidence. This is especially the case when determining morphology of extinct species and comparing that morphology with living species and other extinct species. To suggest the "fossil record isn't important" when it's been made clear that it is, even if it's not as compelling as the genetic evidence, is either a lie, a willful distortion or a straw man erected out of the Blayz's use of a number he pulled out of air instead of using a word like "some" or "a part".

Im not interested in talking about the fringe element in our society but it would be reasonable to conclude if billions of people believe(for whatever reason)one theory or another,you would tend to investigate the more popular theories.Makes sense.

Not really, primarily because of Occam's Razor. And no, tossing out some "couldn't it be" or "well, it could have been" is not a "theory" in any but the most loose and colloquial definition of the word.

So lets just make sure we are on the same page.
.1.We cant tell whether individuals reproduced,unless they are surrounded by population.I wonder how many "transitional" fossils are found in large populations.

Why does it matter? That individual was part of a population that was reproducing at the time that individual was alive. That entire population could have gone extinct, and a cousin species is the one that gave rise to projenator species. I guess you've never done geneology before huh? Just because your great-granduncle didn't have kids, that doesn't mean your great-grandfather didn't as well. In fact it's axoimatic that he did. You can still establish geneological relationships even if you don't have every single name. The same applies with evolution even if you don't have every single fossil.

It's time to drop the "did this individual reproduce" canard. It's not going anywhere.

.2.We cant tell how intelligent these "super monkeys" are.EQ isnt accurate.

No. We can discern how intelligent some of our ape ancestors were, especially the hominids like habilines and erectus. What you have been told repeatedly now is we cannot determine what their IQ was. And I'm sorry, but EQ is accurate and just saying it's not doesn't change that fact.

.3.Following on from this,if theres a paucity of fossils,and the remains look different from other species than its most likely a mutation.The idea of finding sometthing that looks different and attributing a whole population to it without any back up proof.hmm.

Premise 1 and 2 are flawed and there is no paucity of fossils so your conclusion is completely flawed.

Not really on topic.

Actually completely on topic. Forensics and the court cases built on the findings are an important part of our legal system and some cases are built in scant, but damning trace evidences. The same applies to some fragmentary fossil finds. We can build the case if we have the right pieces.

Not true,ricketts causes skeletal defects.Ricketts has been debunked?

Creationist mythology and straw man. The Creationist claim that Neanderthals were H sapiens that suffered from rickets has long been debunked.
Creationist Arguments: Neandertals
CC051.1: Neanderthal rickets
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Im suggesting these early hominids you are talking about were actually human.I know there is a fair amount of erectus fossils discovered.I understand that theres a big variation in the size of fossils discovered that go under the erectus banner,however that could include individuals with disease hence the differing appearances.

Yes, I suppose you could call them 'human', but certainly not homo sapien. Only now is research emerging that suggests that inter-breeding between our ancient ancestors and neanderthals is evident. And even then that's open to scrutiny.

Well you had me until you mentioned habilis and mean group size.There wasnt many habilis fossils discovered and some were in such a mess,i would suggest putting a skeleton together would require a particular skill with plaster of paris.My point stands regarding tool usage,as i referred to in my previous post to US.They could quite easily have been dinner.

I only used homo habilius as an example. The rest of the point still counts. We can infer intelligence from neocortical volume, which we can ascertain by referrence to data on mean group size and cranial capacity.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Chimps arent 3 ft tall and have around 800 cc?Its smaller than that?What you have to also understand is ive got more than you replying to me plus we got kids in our threads spamming it up,forgive me if miss corrections.At least i know ,if im wrong someone will point it out to me..
I already did.
An adult female chimps is about 3 feet tall and weighs about 100 lbs but the average adult male chimp is about 4 feet tall and weighs about 130 pounds. I have seen a male chimp that weighed 180. I posted on chimp size and cranial capacity earlier on the thread. I guess you missed it. I don't know where you got 800 cc. I have looked at several sources and they all say around 400 +/- 100.

Orangutans: 275–500 cc
Chimpanzees: 275–500 cc
Gorillas: 340–752 cc
Humans: 1200–1850 cc

Cranial capacity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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dude you arent getting it. i wasted enough time here.Peace.

Bye. If you come back or if it will benefit the lurkers, I'll respond to your other posts tonight CDT.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Meh, he's mature. Silly beliefs, sure, but he's at least civil (and internally consistent!). He genuinely believes what he believes, bless.

Mature without history? :cool:

Seriously though, I realize some of you find interacting with him entertaining, but he redily admits that he's not interested in anything that contradicts his weltanschauung, repeatedly ingores correction on things like Pluto and thalidomide, repeatedly ignores correction on stuff he doesn't understand or refuses to accept like his "maturity without history" garbage - that he only took 3 years or more to come up with when it was repeatedly pointed out he's using the tired and refuted omphalos argument. Admissions like he does the counting threads because he can't sit around waiting for someone to reply to his genius contributions to this subforum. His lording of his post count and rep number over newbies. Etc. etc. etc. strikes you as "mature"?

I really don't care if he believes every crazy word he types on this forum, if he's retired, homebound and bored or if he's got a mental problem. Replying to him only encourages him and I wish everyone would stop so we could get back to the Crevo debate instead of following him (and a few others like dad) down apologetical rabbit holes and intellectual sewer lines with the nonsense they post again and again and again and again and again...
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Mature without history? :cool:
Mature ex materia ;).

Seriously though, I realize some of you find interacting with him entertaining, but he redily admits that he's not interested in anything that contradicts his weltanschauung, repeatedly ingores correction on things like Pluto and thalidomide, repeatedly ignores correction on stuff he doesn't understand or refuses to accept like his "maturity without history" garbage - that he only took 3 years or more to come up with when it was repeatedly pointed out he's using the tired and refuted omphalos argument. Admissions like he does the counting threads because he can't sit around waiting for someone to reply to his genius contributions to this subforum. His lording of his post count and rep number over newbies. Etc. etc. etc. strikes you as "mature"?
Well, OK, no, you have a point there... :p

I really don't care if he believes every crazy word he types on this forum, if he's retired, homebound and bored or if he's got a mental problem. Replying to him only encourages him and I wish everyone would stop so we could get back to the Crevo debate instead of following him (and a few others like dad) down apologetical rabbit holes and intellectual sewer lines with the nonsense they post again and again and again and again and again...
Well, if they are genuinely derailing the thread, I'll ignore them. I've spoken to AV and dad at lengths a few times, so there's not much more I have to say to them. I might throw the odd Thalidomide joke AV's way, as a kind of friendly banter, but it's been a while since I've gone off on one with him.

Ah, those were the days though. Thinking I could sway the juggernaut of stubbornness that is our own AV1611VET...

But yea, I agree with you, him and dad only really serve to derail and subvert. Like a beached whale, humorous from afar, but get too close and you just end up in cetacean entrails.
 
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Belk

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Mature without history? :cool:

Seriously though, I realize some of you find interacting with him entertaining, but he redily admits that he's not interested in anything that contradicts his weltanschauung, repeatedly ingores correction on things like Pluto and thalidomide, repeatedly ignores correction on stuff he doesn't understand or refuses to accept like his "maturity without history" garbage - that he only took 3 years or more to come up with when it was repeatedly pointed out he's using the tired and refuted omphalos argument. Admissions like he does the counting threads because he can't sit around waiting for someone to reply to his genius contributions to this subforum. His lording of his post count and rep number over newbies. Etc. etc. etc. strikes you as "mature"?

I really don't care if he believes every crazy word he types on this forum, if he's retired, homebound and bored or if he's got a mental problem. Replying to him only encourages him and I wish everyone would stop so we could get back to the Crevo debate instead of following him (and a few others like dad) down apologetical rabbit holes and intellectual sewer lines with the nonsense they post again and again and again and again and again...

What debate? This sub forum used to be fairly well visited and there was a lively debate. Now days it seems fairly dead. Without AV and DAD who would there be to debate with?
 
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Cabal

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What debate? This sub forum used to be fairly well visited and there was a lively debate. Now days it seems fairly dead. Without AV and DAD who would there be to debate with?

Quality rather than quantity, I think the ideal is.

And those two certainly are the antithesis of that.
 
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Split Rock

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Seriously though, I realize some of you find interacting with him entertaining, but he redily admits that he's not interested in anything that contradicts his weltanschauung, repeatedly ingores correction on things like Pluto and thalidomide, repeatedly ignores correction on stuff he doesn't understand or refuses to accept like his "maturity without history" garbage - that he only took 3 years or more to come up with when it was repeatedly pointed out he's using the tired and refuted omphalos argument. Admissions like he does the counting threads because he can't sit around waiting for someone to reply to his genius contributions to this subforum. His lording of his post count and rep number over newbies. Etc. etc. etc. strikes you as "mature"?

I really don't care if he believes every crazy word he types on this forum, if he's retired, homebound and bored or if he's got a mental problem. Replying to him only encourages him and I wish everyone would stop so we could get back to the Crevo debate instead of following him (and a few others like dad) down apologetical rabbit holes and intellectual sewer lines with the nonsense they post again and again and again and again and again...
I can count the number of creationist posters here who this does not apply to on one hand.. and I haven't seen any such exceptions here lately. Really.
 
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SithDoughnut

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I really don't care if he believes every crazy word he types on this forum, if he's retired, homebound and bored or if he's got a mental problem. Replying to him only encourages him and I wish everyone would stop so we could get back to the Crevo debate instead of following him (and a few others like dad) down apologetical rabbit holes and intellectual sewer lines with the nonsense they post again and again and again and again and again...

What you've outlined there is a Crevo debate. That's generally how they work.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Not only were his questions completely unintelligent and wrong, what makes in all the more amusing is that the people he questioned can explain more about evolution (even if they have it wrong) than anyone can about creationism.
Wow. I may have to do something to regenerate some lost IQ points after wasting about 9 minutes of my life watching that nonsense.

Evolution is false because Darwin's daughter died when she 12 and because accepting it might cause gay marriage. The dog needing a mate thing was extra stooopid, I wonder if he knows that evolution occurs in populations and not individuals. Do you suppose he is just telling one of those lies he believes accepting evolution causes people to tell? Either that or he is far too uniformed to be commenting on evolution. What do you bet that the real goal of his website is actually to make money bringing in donations and selling his books? When I first saw the banana video I thought it had to be a joke. Then I realized that he was serious.
In the immortal words of bugs bunny
What an embezzle! What an ultramaroon! -
 
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