Science Says NO to Evolution Theory!

[Loudmouth]

I very much do care about what the evidence is, that I disagree with your interpretation is what is at issue.

You need to do more than disagree with it. You need to demonstrate that it is wrong.

Please do not make the false argument that Dawkins makes, that the debates are between "science" and "religion".

Then show me the evidence that you followed to reach the conclusion that life was created by a deity. Or does this evidence not exist? If this evidence does not exist, then how did you reach the conclusion of creationism by any other method than religion?

 

[Oncedeceived]

THIS JUST IN! CHRISTIAN PERSECUTED IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY WHICH IS 80% CHRISTIAN! You know, I'm starting to think that having "you will be persecuted" as a core tenet of a society's religion might have some rather awful consequences for that society when they rise to power and have essentially complete control of the country. For example, they might take any pronouncement speaking out against religious privilege in an ostensibly secular country as evidence of persecution, and then make some extras up when they can't find enough of that.

Nobody is stopping you from praying in public (although your own bible might). The WBC is allowed to do what they want wherever and soapbox, street-corner preachers are all over the place. I have no idea where you got this idea that you needed to pray privately. Other than like, I dunno, Mark 6:6.

Nobody is stopping you from attending the church of your choosing, and nobody is forcing churches to marry homosexuals. This didn't happen when interracial marriage became legal and it hasn't happened now. I don't know where you got the idea that churches are being forced to do this.

Where did you even hear that you can't take a bible into study hall? Of course you can! You do realize "no prayer in school" was a lie, right? You can pray in school as much as you want so long as you aren't disrupting the class. The only thing O'Hair accomplished was that the school could not force prayer onto the students. That's it. You're free to pray as much as you want in school! They don't even consider asking the all-powerful god of the bible for help on your test to be cheating!

Stop trying to invent persecution where there is none. You have no idea how privileged being a Christian in the United States of America makes you. You never have to worry about being the wrong religion. You almost never have to worry about your community disowning you because you found Jesus. You don't have to worry that people will say, "Wait, Deceived's kids are Christian? I can't have my kids hanging around that!" Your family probably isn't going to say, "Man, we have got to do something about Deceived; she's bringing up her kids without them knowing that the bible is wrong!" There are all things that atheists have to deal with on a near-constant basis in many parts of the country. My demographic is less trusted than rapists. You want to worry about persecution? Why? Because you don't have complete control of the government?!

All this talk of Christian persecution in the USA is like having to listen to a straight guy complain because he has to watch two men holding hands in the street. You have no idea how well-off you are as a Christian in America. No other country will go so far to accommodate you for your beliefs, at least not without asking for proof.

I agree with you...now for the most part. Yet, a young girl was told that she could have a Bible in study hall. There are those who are trying to force those who are against marrying same sex couples to do so. I agree we do have many more religious freedoms in this country but we also allow more religious and non-religious freedoms than any other country as well.

 

[whois]

I give Koonin +1 for having the cojones to challenge Darwin, that is a step in the right direction.

koonin isn't the only one, dennis noble and fransico ayala are among the others that do.
www.huffingtonpost.com/suzan-mazur/replace-the-modern-sythes_b_5284211.html

 

[whois]

Dear moderators, can we please get a statement? Is Whois not allowed to bring up Koonin because "it's forbidden to put evolution in a bad light like that"? On a forum full to the brim with threads claiming to debunk it?

are you sure you want to go this route?
i have the PMs, and can post them if i get the clearance from the moderator that sent them.

 

[Loudmouth]

are you sure you want to go this route?
i have the PMs, and can post them if i get the clearance from the moderator that sent them.

I have the quotes from Koonin clearly stating that he accepts the Tree of Life concept for eukaryotes. Why do you keep ignoring that?

 

[Loudmouth]

koonin isn't the only one, dennis noble and fransico ayala are among the others that do.
www.huffingtonpost.com/suzan-mazur/replace-the-modern-sythes_b_5284211.html

Once again, we get a secondary source. Will you be citing any primary sources?

 

[whois]

I have the quotes from Koonin clearly stating that he accepts the Tree of Life concept for eukaryotes. Why do you keep ignoring that?

who said i was?

ross and oakley has this to say:
At least three processes complicate such a view of a tree of life, horizontal transfer, symbiogenesis, and differential lineage sorting of genes. Each of these processes are at odds with fundamental assumptions of the Modern Synthesis [7,8] and a Tree of Life for the new biology is necessarily more complex than a graph joining species.
. . .
Even systematics has had to abandon many strictures that were part of the Modern Synthesis. If species are the durable unit of biology, and if natural selection quickly molds genes to current utility, then most genes should diverge at the time of speciation events, given views like Mayr's. Here again, analyses of newly abundant sequence data in the late 20th Century showed that rather than a highly congruent coalescence of genes at the times of speciation events, the coalescence times of alleles among species are highly variable. As such, species trees and gene trees often cannot be equated
-The new biology beyond the Modern Synthesis.htm

also, HGT plays an important role in vertabrate evolution, see upload.

 

[whois]

Once again, we get a secondary source. Will you be citing any primary sources?

i'm sure noble has an email address, ask him.

 

[Loudmouth]

who said i was?

Do you agree with Koonin that the tree of life concept can be used for eukaryotes?

ross and oakley has this to say:
At least three processes complicate such a view of a tree of life,

The tree of life FOR WHICH SPECIES GROUPS?

. . .
Even systematics has had to abandon many strictures that were part of the Modern Synthesis. If species are the durable unit of biology, and if natural selection quickly molds genes to current utility, then most genes should diverge at the time of speciation events, given views like Mayr's.

How are any of those necessary parts of the Modern Synthesis?

Here again, analyses of newly abundant sequence data in the late 20th Century showed that rather than a highly congruent coalescence of genes at the times of speciation events, the coalescence times of alleles among species are highly variable. As such, species trees and gene trees often cannot be equated

Often? How often? Again with the relative terms.

ILS is an expected outcome of evolution within the Modern Synthesis. You are pointing to evidence for the mechanisms that are already a part of the Modern Synthesis.
-The new biology beyond the Modern Synthesis.htm

also, HGT plays an important role in vertabrate evolution, see upload.

How much of a role compared to VGT?

 

[Loudmouth]

i'm sure noble has an email address, ask him.

Why don't you quote Noble's own writing?

 

[whois]

Why don't you quote Noble's own writing?

if you want to believe noble lied his butt off in the piece i uploaded then be my guest.
you really need to ask the authors these questions, not me.
if you want to believe them fine, if not, then, well fine.

i find it it exceedingly hilarious that educated men like noble all of a sudden become walking morons when it comes to being outspoken about darwinism.

you know what the REALLY funny thing is?
i stand a chance of getting BANNED for posting some of this stuff.
there's your objectiveness for you.

edit:
the only way evolution stands half a chance is by murdering its opponents.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

Quick question though; you claim the supreme court has made tissue paper of the constitution. Since the constitution is a legal document, could you please give your legal argument, as to how you conclude what you do?

Also, how would you fix this problem of the supreme court making tissue paper of the constitution?

Let me give you an example. The Establishment of religion clause was designed to protect Religion from the Government. Yet the Supreme court interferes with our freedom of religion all the time. The ban prayer in school, they ban a open public display of the 10 commandment and other similar issues.

Even their is a problem with the constitution if they did follow it. This all represents man and man's law. Soon Jesus will return and for 1000 years the government shall be upon His shoulder. So God will once again be in control and it will no longer be man trying to run the show. I do not question that man wants to get it right, but only God is able to get the job done.

 

[bhsmte]

Let me give you an example. The Establishment of religion clause was designed to protect Religion from the Government. Yet the Supreme court interferes with our freedom of religion all the time. The ban prayer in school, they ban a open public display of the 10 commandment and other similar issues.

Even their is a problem with the constitution if they did follow it. This all represents man and man's law. Soon Jesus will return and for 1000 years the government shall be upon His shoulder. So God will once again be in control and it will no longer be man trying to run the show. I do not question that man wants to get it right, but only God is able to get the job done.

Why would prayer be allowed in a public place (a school) where others may not agree with your religion? Would you be ok with a muslim prayer in school? A student can pray on their own, whenever they like.

Does is crush your faith if religious symbols are not allowed on public property? Would you be ok with Muslim religious symbols in public buildings.

Let me know when you can no longer; worship the God of your choosing, attend the church of your choosing, teach your kids the religion of your choosing and even preach your religion in public places, as long as you are not infringing on the rights of others. Then, we can talk.

It would appear, you need to educate yourself on the constitution just a bit.

 

[RickG]

if you want to believe noble lied his butt off in the piece i uploaded then be my guest.
you really need to ask the authors these questions, not me.
if you want to believe them fine, if not, then, well fine.

i find it it exceedingly hilarious that educated men like noble all of a sudden become walking morons when it comes to being outspoken about darwinism.

you know what the REALLY funny thing is?
i stand a chance of getting BANNED for posting some of this stuff.
there's your objectiveness for you.

Wasn't the ban warning due to copyright infringement? Therefore, copy/paste of an entire article without permission. There is nothing wrong with presenting a specific quote from any written source so long as you provide proper citation.

 

[whois]

Wasn't the ban warning due to copyright infringement? Therefore, copy/paste of an entire article without permission. There is nothing wrong with presenting a specific quote from any written source so long as you provide proper citation.

it wasn't stated as such in the PMs, no.
i DID provide the proper citation, i even uploaded the entire article.
i did find out later that it was a "pay for" article from NCBI.
i was expressly forbidden to quote a certain author.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It would appear, you need to educate yourself on the constitution just a bit.

Could be, as it turns out I did not take the Problems of Democracy class in High School and that is why I was not qualified to graduate. My son just took the class in two weeks this summer. He had to read two chapters a day. So now he is qualified to go to college at 17 and I was not qualified to go until I was 19. My wife actually started college at 15 but that is another story.

 

[The Cadet]

are you sure you want to go this route?
i have the PMs, and can post them if i get the clearance from the moderator that sent them.

"Is Whois not allowed to bring up Koonin because "it's forbidden to put evolution in a bad light like that"? On a forum full to the brim with threads claiming to debunk it?"

It was a rhetorical question. Yes, I'm suuuuuure that you're not allowed to post about Koonin on ChristianForums, a Christian ministry with a whole bunch of YECs, because it paints evolution in a bad light. Unlike, I dunno, these threads:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/science-says-no-to-evolution-theory.7899160/ (whoa, deja vu)
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/creation-school-do-we-need-one.7892937/
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/some-questions-for-christians-who-accept-evolution.7893108/
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/fossils-on-mountains-and-the-hydroplate-theory.7898183/
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/evolution-creation-on-trial.7892639/

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You're just being paranoid. There's nothing actually there.

 

[whois]

Wasn't the ban warning due to copyright infringement?

it wasn't a ban/warning.
it was more along the lines of a friendly reminder.
the mod in question stated that my posts on this subject was generating a lot of reports.
it's my guess that the person that made these reports is on the horn right now, crying that whois is at it again.
some people really do need to get a grip on the reality of the situation.

 

[whois]

Yes, I'm suuuuuure that you're not allowed to post about Koonin on ChristianForums, a Christian ministry with a whole bunch of YECs, because it paints evolution in a bad light. Unlike, I dunno, these threads:

like i said, i have the PMs.
like the mod said "leave koonin out of it".
and like i asked him "who's going to be next i can't quote, noble?"

 

[RickG]

it wasn't stated as such in the PMs, no.
i DID provide the proper citation, i even uploaded the entire article.
i did find out later that it was a "pay for" article from NCBI.
i was expressly forbidden to quote a certain author.

I would say uploading the entire article was the problem. But, even though almost all peer review articles have a pay wall, that is not entirely the case for all. There are many that are open access or they are provided by the author(s) through their institution or personal website. If you will give me the title of the article and the authors (at least lead author), I will see if I can find it in open access.

But even if you have a copy of the article and you obtained it through a pay wall, you are well within your rights to post specific quotations (several sentences), in quotes, with proper citation, along with your comments. On the other hand, if the entire article was posted and it is only available through a pay wall, well then, that's a big no no.