science proof creation

[rmills]

Wow, thanks for setting me straight! I have no idea how one could pull insult from your response either!

I'll just get back on the short bus now.

Apparently I was lead to believe by the devil or something that lights speed is changed by what it passes through or something messed up like that.

If I still have not answered why distance determinations would be affected by the atmosphere or any other medium,, then the genius minds that created math to determine such things during the Hubble project that now grade papers in HS math class wont be able to tell you either.

Imagine that there is just 1,000,000 tons of whatever between us and the star that is some billion light years away by current standards of measurment, this according to you has no effect on the lights path.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992796 speaks of changing lights speed. But they smoke dope of course, its a college after all.

http://www.rochester.edu/pr/News/NewsReleases/scitech/boyd-slowlight.html speaks of changing the speed of light, and actually claims to slow light to 127 MPH.

Forget it, I'll just get back on the short buss.

I do not post my age because of simple minded folks like yourself that judge according to illogical standards. You do not know who I am or what I know, so once again, stop the mud slinging.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

Comment on the 2 links you gave:

No energy is tranmitted at the fast speed. This in no way violates relativity. I think you need to learn the difference between phase velocity and group velocity. This is high school physics (well maybe college in the US.) The slowing light speed is again an example of the difference between the phase and group velocities of the wave.

Google the terms and learn.

You still have some strange conception of distance determination but as you wont expound on it I can't help you on that score.

I see from your profile you are a youth pastor so I take it you are very young.

Why do folks like you refuse to learn the basics of physics and instead carry around illogical versions just because they help you in your misconceptions of more advanced topics? Do you think the Lord wishes us to not use our brains?

You need to learn the basics! You really don't understand how light propagates in a medium versus in vacuo.

You think 1,000,000 tons is anything.

Think about it - we know what is in the light path between us and a soure due to it's effect on the light and how this varies with frequency. This is well understood physics for 100-200 years now. Tested time and again both by experiment and observation and backed up by theory. You are grasping at straws if you want to toss this aside.

Why not learn about things like 'mean free path of a photon', scattering, dispersion, optical depth etc etc etc.

Until then your questioning is an appeal from ignorance.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

How do you apply that theory outside of our atmosphere? Centuries ago, we did not understand what distortion variables the atmosphere caused, now we do!

Vacuum pumps.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Ultrahigh vacuum technology is on the same order as the vacuum in space.

 

[time]

If I understand the theory correctly, a vast number of creationists hold to the same "flying out of a speck that could have fit on the head of a pin" belief.

Really? Bible believing people who believe God made the world 6000 some years ago think the universe, billions of years ago came sailing for no apparent reason from a godless speck?

 

[time]

The suposed extremely distant stars do not have the time required to send light to earth.

Right, so they are missing something major somewhere, cause God says it was made recently.

 

[time]

Could it then be the case that light could have reached us in several thousands of years rather than several billions?

Yes, that is the standard way we think of for refuting cosmology. It could very well be, as far as I'm concerned. But, it all so complicated, and I see no need anymore for straining my mind on that. If a parallel spiritual universe is here, but invisible, and accounts for the time aspect, who cares about the distance? (measured in the present light speed). Science can not see spirits. But we know they exist. Just because they are still so primitive, they can't see the other world with science, doesn't mean it ain't there.
There was I think a big battle, and rebellion in Heaven, or the spirit world, before the creation. Maybe this was why it was seperated? If so, as our physical universe came into being, and the other spiritual one was seperated, what we were left with, was stars, that were now seemingly a long time away. They would have been no time maybe at all away, though in the relative same distance the day before 'seperation'.

 

[Ark-Guy]

Yes, that is the standard way we think of for refuting cosmology. It could very well be, as far as I'm concerned. But, it all so complicated, and I see no need anymore for straining my mind on that. If a parallel spiritual universe is here, but invisible, and accounts for the time aspect, who cares about the distance? (measured in the present light speed). Science can not see spirits. But we know they exist. Just because they are still so primitive, they can't see the other world with science, doesn't mean it ain't there.
There was I think a big battle, and rebellion in Heaven, or the spirit world, before the creation. Maybe this was why it was seperated? If so, as our physical universe came into being, and the other spiritual one was seperated, what we were left with, was stars, that were now seemingly a long time away. They would have been no time maybe at all away, though in the relative same distance the day before 'seperation'.

The spirit battle or rebellion in Heaven was after creation.
We know this because the bible mentions Satan walking in the Garden of Eden in an unfallen state.

EZE 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

 

[rmills]

The spirit battle or rebellion in Heaven was after creation.
We know this because the bible mentions Satan walking in the Garden of Eden in an unfallen state.

EZE 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

Thanks, I was looking for that verse.

 

[rmills]

Ezekiel 28:13 with...

Gen 3:1 And the serpent was cunning above every animal of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said to the woman, Is it true that God has said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?

 

[time]

The spirit battle or rebellion in Heaven was after creation.
We know this because the bible mentions Satan walking in the Garden of Eden in an unfallen state.

In a serpent body telling lies about God is an unfallen state? I don't think you are sure about that.

 

[time]

I don't know what you are saying. Yes, the scum was in Eden, where he was to test us. Yes, before that, when he was made, he was adorned well, I think even with musical instruments sort of embedded in him. But why would the punk be any less fallen in the garden, then in Job's day, where he also was allowed to test people? Jesus called him the father of lies, and a murderer, from the beginning, how would that be 'unfallen'? Who inspired Cain to kill Abel? No, you'll have to do a lot better than that to make a case!

 

[rmills]

I dont know that I agree with unfallen either, but satan had decided that he was as great or greater than God prior to his fall.

 

[gluadys]

The spirit battle or rebellion in Heaven was after creation.
We know this because the bible mentions Satan walking in the Garden of Eden in an unfallen state.

EZE 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

And when was Satan the king of Tyre?

"Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the LORD God, "You had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God....."'

Ezekiel 28:11-13

emphasis added

 

[gluadys]

In a serpent body telling lies about God is an unfallen state? I don't think you are sure about that.

The bible nowhere connects the serpent of Eden with Satan.

And, by the way, what lie did the serpent tell? cf. Genesis 3:4-5 and Genesis 3:22

 

[Bushido216]

We can not detect the invisible universe now, with our physical science, so I guess it could never be disproved! It explains a 6200 year old creation, despite the present physical time distance! It leaves science pretty well intact! ----

No, actually, it shatters science. Why? Because you're making up that theory out of your butt and then declaring it untestable, and therefore unfalsifyable. You haven't given us any evidence, beyond conjecture, as to why this could happen. This is akin to me saying that you can't falsify my theory of pixies holding the sun in place because you can't test for them.

 

[time]

I dont know that I agree with unfallen either, but satan had decided that he was as great or greater than God prior to his fall.

Yes, but he was very wrong and got knocked down more than a few pegs.

 

[time]

The bible nowhere connects the serpent of Eden with Satan.

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
--a very common name for the ol boy, actually.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
So we see here it was right from the getgo.
1Jo 3:12 - Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Yep, it all started way back when. Just cause he was allowed access still to heaven, doesn't mean he wasn't fallen.

 

[time]

And when was Satan the king of Tyre?

At a different time than when he was king of Greece. Also a different time then when he possesed Judas.

 

[time]

Because you're making up that theory out of your butt and then declaring it untestable, and therefore unfalsifyable

Well, some poor people think the whole universe came from a much smaller place than that. Their little big bang speck could have fit in a pore in your eyeball!
Untestable? At least the spirit world has billions of witnesses through history, and the world who have seen ghosts, miracles, etc. and who feel the invisible supernatural is real. Falsesifyable? How do I prove your speck was false? Untestable? Hey Try Him, it works!