Scared

[AudioArtist]

I am studying philosophy, and next year we have to look at "Beyond Good and Evil" by Frederich Nietzche.

To be honest, I am terrified. My faith isn't always stable as it is, and from what I've read so far he seems to be a very intelligent and very, very anti-Christian philosopher.

Does anybody here know of critiques or Christian answers to Nietzche's assertions, or could anyone just give a bit of their own knowledge or ideas about why it's stupid to listen to him? I get sucked into these things easily, and some ideas from you would save me a lot of stress and depression!

Please pray that having to study him won't land be back in the land of depressing disbelief again.

 

[KleinerApfel]

AA, you are not going to get sucked in. You are stronger than you think little brother.

You have the right attitude there; treat all humanistic philosophers with deep caution and suspicion!

You'll probably find that their ideas are a useful contrast - you'll be amazed at what some people think about the world, mankind. spirituality etc., and because you have the light of Truth alive in you, you'll find it amazing these extremely intelligent people could put their faith in such things.

Remember to ask God for his wisdom to counter false claims:

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

There will be times when a part of philosophy agrees with God, but you will learn to discern the difference between the wisdom of God and the wisdom of man.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

And finally, don't be intimidated by worldly intellect; what you have is better by far:

1 Cor. 1:
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written:

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,

23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.

27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things— and the things that are not— to nullify the things that are,

29 so that no-one may boast before him.

30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God— that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

31 Therefore, as it is written: Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.

You have the power of God within you, and you are going to grow so much in your faith throughout the next year.

God bless you, love Susana

 

[KingdomScribe]

I wouldn't be happy to have to take such a class either. I have better things to think about.

But it won't hurt to "look through another man's eyes" -- like Susana says, it'll help you "learn to discern the difference between the wisdom of God and the wisdom of man."

That, BTW, is a useful "tool" for reading comments on this forum!​

Nietzsche wasn't that "bad". Let me give you a picture of what Nietzsche might have been like: Picture in your mind's eye, a man sitting in the middle of a circle of people who are supposed to be "Christians". They are different from each other. One is an idiot, another is a thief, another argues incessently and pointlessly, another blindly follows folk-tales of his parents and others...

And in that particular group, not only Jesus is missing, there are no "Pauls", "Peters" or even "Timothys".

In Nietzsche's day, the only representatives of "Christianity" he knew were sadly deficient. He could read the Scriptures (and did) but without an enlivened spirit, he couldn't really grasp what he was reading.

With this strange picture in mind, understand that when Nietzsche rejected religion and declared that "God" was "dead", he really was making a comment about "religion" that he'd seen with his own eyes. What he "religion" saw in the lives of the people around him was, in fact, "dead".

In fact, Nietzsche was better off rejecting the "religion" he'd grown up with in his century. It would have been nice if he'd gone onward to a personal knowledge of the Person, Jesus -- but that didn't happen.

Audioartist -- here's a positive step you can take that I seriously suggest:

Meditate LOTS on Psalm 1.​

(It's easy to remember what passage I'm recommending -- open up the Psalms and it's first!

Now -- verse 1 begins with, "Blessed is the person who does not follow the advice of wicked people..."

One paraphrase of this verse that helps me reads this way: "Blessed (means "happy") is the person who does not follow the advice of those who do not know God."

In the Hebrew (accord to Strong's), "wicked" means someone who is "hostile to God".

Well -- Nietzsche certainly was "hostile to God" and certainly did NOT "know God".

That means, however much you might learn to appreciate his humor, his intellectual brilliance, or his mother's snitzel, don't follow any of his counsel on how to view the world!

The rest of the Psalm says what you are supposed to do, is be like a tree...

...like a tree planted by a stream, whose roots are bathed by water (even in time of drought), whose leaves will not wither...​

You're the "tree", the stream is the Living Word of God (His "law" or, as Jesus put it, "every Word that proceeds out of the Father's mouth" is our "bread of life"...)

The point of Psalm 1 is that if you make a top priority to stay "drenched" in the Word of God (and in His Presence), then when you're having to listen to the counsel of people who don't even know God, you'll stay strong, spiritually healthy and what you set your hand to do will prosper. (All right there in the psalm!)​

KingdomScribe

P.S. One last point -- while you must sit under the teaching of "those who don't know God", audioartist -- make sure you stay in fellowship with those who DO know God... ks

 

[AudioArtist]

Thanks, great advice from both of you.

I did not want to study him, unfortunately it's part of my course to read a book by him and write essays on it. I am already amazed by his depressing, hopeless, worldview.

 

[Strong in Him]

The thing that immediately comes to mind is that well known piece of graffiti:

"God is dead" - Nietzsche.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God.

Seriously though, I had the same concerns when studying R.E at college and finding that we would be looking at the teachings of Don Cupitt. ( A liberal theologian, and that's being polite!) I talked it over with the deaconess at our church. The only thing that I remember her saying was that "God has you in the palm of his hand, he will not let you go." I've since learned from Isaiah that God has us engraved onto the palm of his hand; he can't let us go."

You don't need to worry in case your faith isn't strong, you only need to know that the Lord is strong. Have you a prayer/study group who will give you support?

 

[Hisgirl]

AA...when I read your post, the very first thing that popped into my mind was the verse in Ephesians 4:14.....that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting.

I saw you in a boat...being tossed to and fro...BUT, you had an anchor and you tossed this 'Jesus anchor' into the sea and it held you secure and tight. You have grown considerably in your maturity over these past few months...you may not see it, but we do. Jesus is your rock, your foundation...your safe harbor and your anchor in these stormy seas. You'll be strong during this time...no fears...no worries.

Be mightily Blessed
Hisgirl

 

[AudioArtist]

Yes, that is true.

A year ago, if I had so much as read a few quotes of his, my faith would have tumbled to a deep low! Now, I can read quotes of his and remain relatively unscathed.

Still, the reason I am worried is because it will be one day after another reading his wretched book. A bit weird for a Catholic school to do a study on him, isn't it?

Please pray for me, that I'll see right through his flawed and unchristian ideas with the power of God. Perhaps I could learn a thing or two from him, too.

 

[Br_Rhoades]

I am studying philosophy, and next year we have to look at "Beyond Good and Evil" by Frederich Nietzche.

To be honest, I am terrified. My faith isn't always stable as it is, and from what I've read so far he seems to be a very intelligent and very, very anti-Christian philosopher.

Does anybody here know of critiques or Christian answers to Nietzche's assertions, or could anyone just give a bit of their own knowledge or ideas about why it's stupid to listen to him? I get sucked into these things easily, and some ideas from you would save me a lot of stress and depression!

Please pray that having to study him won't land be back in the land of depressing disbelief again.

Your relationship to the Holy Bible as the final and real Word of God is the strongest stand in dealing with Frederich Nietzche. He is a great study in what is wrong with modern thought and the dysfunctional relation of the human equation to the super self. I think that it is good to understand that harmonic of pain that is created by the hollow drum of the self made man. You will find that this study will enrich your understanding of the sin nature and the lie that we tell our self to keep the pain away. He is not ‘evil’ he is confused and as you read him you will understand your own human soul and the true value of the Grace that God has offered. You will truly be surprised at the rich and deep wonder that you are stepping into, If you do not have a solid relation with the Father and know that you are loved then you will be eaten alive. But if you have any faith in Gods love at all, it will be made deeper by knowing the writings of the theologian Frederich Nietzche.

 

[Hisgirl]

AA...I thought of a cool web site that may help you and I also thought of something else. There may be students in your class that are not saved and might be influenced in a negative way by this book...maybe God will just use you to be a beacon of light in the midst of the dark!

This website is suppose to help with debates with atheists....it is full of amazing information...all written by an ex-atheist! http://www.ex-atheist.com/

 

[theywhosowintears]

I am studying philosophy, and next year we have to look at "Beyond Good and Evil" by Frederich Nietzche.

To be honest, I am terrified. My faith isn't always stable as it is, and from what I've read so far he seems to be a very intelligent and very, very anti-Christian philosopher.

Does anybody here know of critiques or Christian answers to Nietzche's assertions, or could anyone just give a bit of their own knowledge or ideas about why it's stupid to listen to him? I get sucked into these things easily, and some ideas from you would save me a lot of stress and depression!

Please pray that having to study him won't land be back in the land of depressing disbelief again.

I think that you should weigh up what he says against what God says...and if they disagree go with what God says. (He hasn't been wrong yet)

Peace.

PS: A good christian Apologist who has done some study of Nietzsche's work is Ravi Zacharias (www.rzim.org) He has an accent so can be a little hard to understand but that just means to have to listen more...oh and his boks don't have accents so that's col too.

 

[PastorSherm]

I am studying philosophy, and next year we have to look at "Beyond Good and Evil" by Frederich Nietzche.

To be honest, I am terrified. My faith isn't always stable as it is, and from what I've read so far he seems to be a very intelligent and very, very anti-Christian philosopher.

Does anybody here know of critiques or Christian answers to Nietzche's assertions, or could anyone just give a bit of their own knowledge or ideas about why it's stupid to listen to him? I get sucked into these things easily, and some ideas from you would save me a lot of stress and depression!

Please pray that having to study him won't land be back in the land of depressing disbelief again.

I've read Nietzche...I've read kirkengaurd...I've read Fraud..er I mean Frued{freuden slip perhaps?}. Interesting thing...Yale has even done a study on it...most athiests have had bad or horrid relationships with their earthly fathers...which leads some to point out that is why they have a hard time believing in their Heavenly Father...all of those three names above had poor relationships with their dads.

 

[PastorSherm]

"God Don't play dice"- Albert Enstiene...
see somebody smarter then Ole Freddie believed in a God.
don't even get me started on Stephen Hawkins LOL

 

[Angel*Eyes]

Anything that goes against the Word of God is false or simply a LIE ... no matter how convincing it sounds!

When you study in this class, try to think of it as fiction.
No matter how wise Nietzche seemed to be, he was blind ... spiritually blind. All of mans' wisdom combined is nothing compared to God's heavenly wisdom.

In college, I had to study Nietzche and it really didn't bother me. Wow, I had my share of classes that went against christianity. For instance, I had this new age teacher who was into tarot cards, spirit guides, etc. He would share his beliefs with us, he made it seem as if christianity is something that some people just need for comfort or something like that, and he even told us about a book that disproves christianity. Fortunately, I didn't get too deep into the stuff that I learned in that class. When you take classes like these, you have to distance yourself from the information that you are learn.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Francis Shaeffer is a good author to read on philosophy. He is a committed Christian and philosopher.
He has a philosophical view that proves God's existence and presence by using logical thought.
His best book is "God is there and He is not Silent."

 

[lismore]

I am studying philosophy, and next year we have to look at "Beyond Good and Evil" by Frederich Nietzche.

To be honest, I am terrified. My faith isn't always stable as it is, and from what I've read so far he seems to be a very intelligent and very, very anti-Christian philosopher.

Does anybody here know of critiques or Christian answers to Nietzche's assertions, or could anyone just give a bit of their own knowledge or ideas about why it's stupid to listen to him? I get sucked into these things easily, and some ideas from you would save me a lot of stress and depression!

Please pray that having to study him won't land be back in the land of depressing disbelief again.

Hi there

I had to study Max Weber, Emile Durkenheim and Karl Marx's 'Das capita'

As long as you realise that these writers will have some true and good ideas, mixed in with many false and even satanic ideas.

For example, some of the things Karl marx wrote about workers was in a way true, but when he wandered into talking about setting up an athiestic communist society then this was clearly from the enemy.

Be careful that the good ideas dont turn your heard, much of what they say has falsehood mixed in with it. It isnt scripture- therefore it isnt 100% accurate. But there might be a useful idea there

Lismore

 

[Kebisoni]

Very good points Lismore - I studied Philosophy at University and there is really is a mixture of good and bad within most things you read. Part of maturity - and something I still work on - is learning to discern the difference - to take what is good and value it and disregard the rest.

I will pray for you AudioArtist. Do you have a good teacher? I think that goes a long way to helping with these things.

 

[Hisgirl]

AA...you've gotten some wonderful supportive advice here...I hope you see how much everyone loves you as a true brother in the Lord. I also hope you'll share your challenges and opportunities with us on the forum when you walk down that road....Your brothers and sisters here will be with you every step of the way. Peace to you.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

AudioArtist,

Since you'll be reading him next year you still have some time to read some apologetics material. I would strongly encourage CS Lewis's Mere Christianity, and spend more time in prayer and in studying Scripture. Studying Scripture and prayer should always be your very first defense. Remember that there is ALWAYS a response to an argument. There are not only men like CS Lewis, but there are also other philosphers who did not agree with Nietzche either. So there will always be someone writing a rebuttal.

Nietzsche wasn't that "bad". Let me give you a picture of what Nietzsche might have been like: Picture in your mind's eye, a man sitting in the middle of a circle of people who are supposed to be "Christians". They are different from each other. One is an idiot, another is a thief, another argues incessently and pointlessly, another blindly follows folk-tales of his parents and others...

And in that particular group, not only Jesus is missing, there are no "Pauls", "Peters" or even "Timothys".

In Nietzsche's day, the only representatives of "Christianity" he knew were sadly deficient. He could read the Scriptures (and did) but without an enlivened spirit, he couldn't really grasp what he was reading.

With this strange picture in mind, understand that when Nietzsche rejected religion and declared that "God" was "dead", he really was making a comment about "religion" that he'd seen with his own eyes. What he "religion" saw in the lives of the people around him was, in fact, "dead".

In fact, Nietzsche was better off rejecting the "religion" he'd grown up with in his century. It would have been nice if he'd gone onward to a personal knowledge of the Person, Jesus -- but that didn't happen.

That is a really good way of putting it!

Diane

 

[AudioArtist]

Thank you very much, all of you. I appreciate the prayers and helpful advice.

I've been reading some apologetics already. Are there any books by Christians (or even non-Christians) that are refutations of Nietzche?

 

[blueroses27]

I dont have any books to refer to you. But just one a couple of things that I've learnt from dealing with situations like this.
-Human ideas, no matter how logic they seem, are flawed if they dont align with scripture.
-God's grace and majesty is never fully understood by christians, nevermind being understood by the spiritually blind.
-True wisdom and understanding is a gift from the Holy Spirit. ask for it!
God bless you and be with you in your studies