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Saving loophole

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believeume

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If infants and young children are permitted into heaven unbaptized and unrepentant, not believing in Jesus or choosing to have faith in him.

If the little ones can enter the city of God even though they carry the disease of sin nature, the disease that God must punish and avenge. Then it seems God does not need belief or faith to save someone.

Is this not clearly demonstrated by children who are saved by default?
 
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redleghunter

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What are you doing there?
I believe the gentleman gave a most appropriate answer in "exploring Christianity."

Perhaps your question(s) would be better served in the "debate non-Christian" forum.
 
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miknik5

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If infants and young children are permitted into heaven unbaptized and unrepentant, not believing in Jesus or choosing to have faith in him.

If the little ones can enter the city of God even though they carry the disease of sin nature, the disease that God must punish and avenge. Then it seems God does not need belief or faith to save someone.

Is this not clearly demonstrated by children who are saved by default?
They are fresh from GOD's presence...what do they know about walking in the muck of life? They do naturally what they were naturally created to do.

The same holds for those who enter in at the last hour...they will be first for they are pure and fresh from HIS PRESENCE.



While those who entered in the earlier hours of the day, who weathered the storms of life, will be last...


Look at the parable of the workers in the field...
 
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believeume

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They are fresh from GOD's presence...what do they know about walking in the muck of life? They do naturally what they were naturally created to do.

The same holds for those who enter in at the last hour...they will be first for they are pure and fresh from HIS PRESENCE.



While those who entered in the earlier hours of the day, who weathered the storms of life, will be last...


Look at the parable of the workers in the field...
Yeah but they're born dead in sin and they can be saved?
 
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com7fy8

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Yeah but they're born dead in sin and they can be saved?
understood > all are born in sin; all need Jesus > John 14:6. God can have mercy on babies, howsoever He pleases > Romans 9:15-16.
 
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food4thought

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So then he can do the same for anyone who misses the pay grade.
God is just. It is not just to judge someone who is unable to understand their crime, even our courts recognize that. God chooses to apply Jesus' atonement to them out of His mercy, but those who know they are sinners and refuse to receive forgiveness through Christ... God judges in justice and righteousness.
 
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believeume

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God is just. It is not just to judge someone who is unable to understand their crime, even our courts recognize that. God chooses to apply Jesus' atonement to them out of His mercy, but those who know they are sinners and refuse to receive forgiveness through Christ... God judges in justice and righteousness.
Do I agree with this? I have no idea.
 
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farout

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If infants and young children are permitted into heaven unbaptized and unrepentant, not believing in Jesus or choosing to have faith in him.

If the little ones can enter the city of God even though they carry the disease of sin nature, the disease that God must punish and avenge. Then it seems God does not need belief or faith to save someone.

Is this not clearly demonstrated by children who are saved by default?

Any man or women who have been a parent knows you do not expect the same from an infant as you do a child of 6. At birth they only have a sucking erg. You really think its just to judge them the same? God does not.
 
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ChristnMe

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when Adam was created he had a pure spirit as do all infants and young children and it is only after disobedience was he condemned. Infants and young children have a 'free pass' until they have reached that age of responsibility which is generally 13 y.o based on jewish tradition. Also because of the law were people condemned but in the new covenant based on grace and forgiveness even a child who murdered but repented correctly can go to heaven.
 
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believeume

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Any man or women who have been a parent knows you do not expect the same from an infant as you do a child of 6. At birth they only have a sucking erg. You really think its just to judge them the same? God does not.
Is the default position for each person, separation from God?
 
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believeume

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when Adam was created he had a pure spirit as do all infants and young children and it is only after disobedience was he condemned. Infants and young children have a 'free pass' until they have reached that age of responsibility which is generally 13 y.o based on jewish tradition. Also because of the law were people condemned but in the new covenant based on grace and forgiveness even a child who murdered but repented correctly can go to heaven.
But you don't really know.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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If infants and young children are permitted into heaven unbaptized and unrepentant, not believing in Jesus or choosing to have faith in him.

If the little ones can enter the city of God even though they carry the disease of sin nature, the disease that God must punish and avenge. Then it seems God does not need belief or faith to save someone.

Is this not clearly demonstrated by children who are saved by default?
Great point.
Children don't have faith because they are still one with God in their innocent God given nature. They're new to this world where many veils form the tapestry of belief.
When they become more aware of what it means to be in this world, the veils start to come into focus. The images the innocent psyche, consciousness, that is still one with God as in the Adamic spirit in the beginning, starts to recognize, re-congnize, shapes, sounds and movement, in progressive steps of learning.
Mom saying, look honey, plane! As she points toward the sky with baby in the stroller grinning and looking up.

We paint pictures of what it means to be here. We give everything its own identity, name. And then we form rules around what it means first to see, then to believe what we see. And then to own it ourselves.

That's the worldly nature. It is called a sin nature because after a time when we are fully imbued with the figments of imaginations that are this worldly carnal world, we arrive at a period of age, or mental understanding because not everyone who has lived a few years knows what it means to take in a few years learning, where we're responsible for how we see it. And what we do with what we think we know. That, age of accountability.

And from there how we see this world and what we do as ourselves either moves us deeper into that relationship we have with God. Or it moves us away. Depends on what we're most in love with I guess.

That's why at a certain point we're so removed from our one-ness with Father that we cleave to the faith He is there and knows us personally.
That's why I think Jesus was talking about becoming innocent like little children to see Heaven again. We have to let go of the layers we've adopted in the worldly world vision that carries all those veils that make us think it is all real and the only thing, and re-call what it was to be one with Dad.

Stop taking the lie so seriously.

You're never separated from God. What puts the distance between are the first faiths, the first beliefs, we have about what it means to be in this world. And we've lost touch with what is inside us that gives us life to be in this world.

"Everybody lookin for god nobody think to look 'em inside."
 
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believeume

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Great point.
Children don't have faith because they are still one with God in their innocent God given nature. They're new to this world where many veils form the tapestry of belief.
When they become more aware of what it means to be in this world, the veils start to come into focus. The images the innocent psyche, consciousness, that is still one with God as in the Adamic spirit in the beginning, starts to recognize, re-congnize, shapes, sounds and movement, in progressive steps of learning.
Mom saying, look honey, plane! As she points toward the sky with baby in the stroller grinning and looking up.

We paint pictures of what it means to be here. We give everything its own identity, name. And then we form rules around what it means first to see, then to believe what we see. And then to own it ourselves.

That's the worldly nature. It is called a sin nature because after a time when we are fully imbued with the figments of imaginations that are this worldly carnal world, we arrive at a period of age, or mental understanding because not everyone who has lived a few years knows what it means to take in a few years learning, where we're responsible for how we see it. And what we do with what we think we know. That, age of accountability.

And from there how we see this world and what we do as ourselves either moves us deeper into that relationship we have with God. Or it moves us away. Depends on what we're most in love with I guess.

That's why at a certain point we're so removed from our one-ness with Father that we cleave to the faith He is there and knows us personally.
That's why I think Jesus was talking about becoming innocent like little children to see Heaven again. We have to let go of the layers we've adopted in the worldly world vision that carries all those veils that make us think it is all real and the only thing, and re-call what it was to be one with Dad.

Stop taking the lie so seriously.

You're never separated from God. What puts the distance between are the first faiths, the first beliefs, we have about what it means to be in this world. And we've lost touch with what is inside us that gives us life to be in this world.

"Everybody lookin for god nobody think to look 'em inside."
Age of accountability is not found in the bible.
 
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redleghunter

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Another question, when does the age of responsibility really come? At which moment of time? The Bible only talks about being able to distinguish the right hand from the left - i.e., a certain level of cognitive ability. There are children with congenitive conditions who never reach such state of mental development, not even as adults.

Each according to the light given.


My brother has a nephew through marriage who is mentally handicapped. The nephew is now an adult but with the mental capacity of a 7 year old. The young man became a Christian at the age of 12 with the same mind of a 7 year old. He accepted Christ based on the light given him. And boy does The Light of Christ shine brightly through that young man.
 
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