EchoPneuma
Well-Known Member
2ducklow said:
What you have shown is that you ignore scripture.
THe bible says "GOD IS LOVE"....and you REFUSE to accept it. Enough said.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Saved through Fire
- Thread starter Kimberlyann
- Start date
- Status
What you have shown is that you ignore scripture.
THe bible says "GOD IS LOVE"....and you REFUSE to accept it. Enough said.
StudentoftheWord
Steward of the Word
2ducklow said:
Irrelevant 2ducklow. Does not address or add to my points.
I agree however, with what you said. It is an analogy and yes we are saved in Jesus Christ through faith.
Upvote
0
StudentoftheWord
Steward of the Word
Now read Leviticus 13.
In case a garment comes to have the contagion of a leprous mold in it and the contagion becomes greenish or reddish in the garment it is to be shown to the priest. The priest will examine the contagion and enclose the contagious thing seven days. Then he will examine the contagion on the seventh day.
1. In case the contagion has diffused in the garment, the contagion is a festering leprous mold; it is unclean. He will burn the garment. In fire shall it be burned.
2. When the priest examines, and behold, the contagion has not diffused in the garment, then the priest will instruct them, and they will wash that which had the contagion in it, and he will enclose it a second seven days.
2a. Then the priest will examine after the contagion has been rinsed, and behold, if the contagion has not turned its visible appearance even though the contagion has not diffused, it is unclean. With fire shall you burn it whether it is pitted in its back or in its front.
2b. When the priest examines, and behold, the contagion is inconspicuous after it has been washed, he will tear it from the garment Yet if it should still appear in the garment, in the spun yarn or in the woven piece or in any article of leather, it is budding out. With fire shall you burn that which has the contagion in it.
2c. As to the garment, the spun yarn or the woven piece, or any article of leather which you are washing when the contagion withdraws from it, it will be washed a second time; then it will be clean.
So here is the propositional statements concerning the usage of fire to cleanse a garment.
1. All garments are unclean
2. All garments are washed
3. The garments that remain unclean and continue to spread after being washed are purified by fire (destroyed).
4. The garments that remain unclean and does not continue to spread after being washed have the unclean piece removed and purified by fire (destroyed).
5. The garments that are clean after being washed are called clean.
6. Not all garments are purified by fire.
Types and Shadows. Revelation already tells you.
Revelation 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
In case a garment comes to have the contagion of a leprous mold in it and the contagion becomes greenish or reddish in the garment it is to be shown to the priest. The priest will examine the contagion and enclose the contagious thing seven days. Then he will examine the contagion on the seventh day.
1. In case the contagion has diffused in the garment, the contagion is a festering leprous mold; it is unclean. He will burn the garment. In fire shall it be burned.
2. When the priest examines, and behold, the contagion has not diffused in the garment, then the priest will instruct them, and they will wash that which had the contagion in it, and he will enclose it a second seven days.
2a. Then the priest will examine after the contagion has been rinsed, and behold, if the contagion has not turned its visible appearance even though the contagion has not diffused, it is unclean. With fire shall you burn it whether it is pitted in its back or in its front.
2b. When the priest examines, and behold, the contagion is inconspicuous after it has been washed, he will tear it from the garment Yet if it should still appear in the garment, in the spun yarn or in the woven piece or in any article of leather, it is budding out. With fire shall you burn that which has the contagion in it.
2c. As to the garment, the spun yarn or the woven piece, or any article of leather which you are washing when the contagion withdraws from it, it will be washed a second time; then it will be clean.
So here is the propositional statements concerning the usage of fire to cleanse a garment.
1. All garments are unclean
2. All garments are washed
3. The garments that remain unclean and continue to spread after being washed are purified by fire (destroyed).
4. The garments that remain unclean and does not continue to spread after being washed have the unclean piece removed and purified by fire (destroyed).
5. The garments that are clean after being washed are called clean.
6. Not all garments are purified by fire.
Types and Shadows. Revelation already tells you.
Revelation 7:15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Upvote
0
StudentoftheWord said:
it addresses this statement of yours.
student said:
You have asserted that some will be saved through fire correct? if so then my rebutal is relevant. if you mean that some will be saved as though through fire, and not literally through fire, then we are in accord, which I doubt.
Upvote
0
no one is made righteous by fire, we are made righteous by faith. works are burnt up not us. and that is figurative. you can't throw works into a fire. you can throw what you made if it is tangeble into a fire, but that's not the meaning. read the scripture closely it says works are burn up and the one who has his works burnt up is still saved (by faith) but as though by fire. In otherwords it means he gets no rewards but he himself is saved because of his faith.StudentoftheWord said:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
so your whole thesis falls apart because it is faith that saves not fire.
Upvote
0
EchoPneuma
Well-Known Member
2ducklow said:
So now works can't be thrown into a fire because they aren't tangible, but you say that Death and Hades CAN be cast into the LOF...and it's literal....yet death and Hades aren't tangible either....
It is YOUR thesis that falls apart because you are interpreting things willy nilly. You haphazardly choose which things you call "figurative" and which you call "literal"....which you call "hyperbole" and which are "real". You have no basis for most of it...it's just your own ideas.
Yet you are willing to say that millions of people will be damned to an eternity of fire by GOD HIMSELF based on this haphazard personal interpretation of scripture.
God will not be pleased by your judging.
Upvote
0
StudentoftheWord said:
actually teaching salvation by fire is apostasy and condemned very strongly in the bible.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
the only gospel we should be preaching is salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, not salavation by fire. thats dangerous stuff for you to be preaching student.
Upvote
0
works death and hades are not literally thrown into the lake of fire, only figuratively. that should be obvious. because it is figurative makes it no less true because it means no more death, no more grave.EchoPneuma said:
Not true I always give sound reasons for what I believe. You on the other hand always prove whatever by attacking me as here. your proof here amount to an accusation of 'willy nilly'. your loosing it EP.EP said:
Not true I always give sound reasons why something is hyperbole or not. I never say something is hyperbole because EP said this or EP said that. Or student said this Or student said that. that's you guys method not mine.EP said:
IEP said:
No I'm telling you what God said and I'm judging no one. the word of God judges us all.
Revelation 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Your whole post here EP amounts to nothing more than a personal attack on me. you really have said nothing.
Upvote
0
I hope the little fishies happy.StudentoftheWord said:Hello everyone, I apologize to a few of my "CF Buddies" for my absense.
I see we have a good conversation going on. This is going to be surprising to some perhaps, but not everyone is going to be saved as one through fire. In fact, the fire is reserved for the more difficult cases. This is hard for some in the CU/UR understanding to see but there is very clear understanding I have concerning this hot (forgive the pun) issue.
The first is to seperate ourselves for the sake of discussion the many types of fires found in Scripture. It is very easy to say they are all the same (which I have seen Benoni say here in the past) but the reality is they are fire. Real life examples would be, a candle light fire is used for light, a stove fire is used for cooking, a torch weilder flame is for fusing metal, the rocket fire is for propelling a rocket into space, refiner's fire is used to purify metals, a garbage fire is to burn up refuge, etc. Yes they all contain fire, but their usage dictates what they are used for. So if I say my candle is a fire, is it the same fire that launches a rocket into space?
I propose that there are those who who are not saved by fire at all. Interestingly enough.
Glad to have you back.
Upvote
0
StudentoftheWord
Steward of the Word
No I didn't. When have I ever said fire saves anyone? No fire burns up your works. Plain and simple. There is nothing about salvation found in 1 Corinthians 3. That is why I have been asking you to pay attention nobody is saved by fire, he himself is saved as one through fire. It is talking about a house fire. If your house was on fire right now, and you had nothing preserved, you have nothing but your life, you are saved but as one through fire.
Upvote
0
B
Benoni
Guest
We noticed in our previous study some things concerning THE SECOND DEATH what it is and what it is not. We saw how THE SECOND DEATH IS ALL DEATH AND EVERYTHING THAT PERTAINS TO DEATH BEING CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. There is no need to look any farther or to make it sound like anything other than what the Spirit said that it is. Death itself is cast into the lake of fire; the realm of the dead, hell, is cast into the lake of fire; those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, those who are dead in trespasses and sins, the ones who inhabit hell, are cast into the lake of fire. This terminates death, hell, and sin. God shall destroy all death and everything related to it in the lake of fire. Therefore, THE LAKE OF FIRE is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH!
Upvote
0
B
Benoni
Guest
The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and liveth unto God, and so fulfilleth all righteousness. The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. We are transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, a mind filled with life and peace. The transformation is wrought by dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe."
Upvote
0
B
Benoni
Guest
It is true that some men are cast into the processing of the lake of fire. But what a disreputable lot! '...the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.' These are men saturated with the power of the first death dead in trespasses and in sins, sold under sin, slaves to every devilish passion, possessed of corrupt and perverse natures, obsessed with every evil device, unrelentingly driven by the spirit of the world, the flesh, and the devil. And nothing God has done has yet broken these stubborn wills or brought these men to repentance. The wages of sin has not broken them. The harvest of evil has not broken them. Hell has not broken them. The tender mercies of the Lord have not broken them. The Spirit has faithfully told us of a second death into which unbelieving and incorrigibly wicked men shall surely go. They go there with death and with hell. The second death will be an experience and a period of time similar to this first death we are now experiencing, but much more terrible and severe than anything we now know. The penalty of sin is very great. The processes of God to break the resistance of willfully wicked men are extremely severe. Not only in this present age do they smite us, but in that second death which is to come. It can only be described as the 'lake of fire.' This terrible death is reserved for those who have not profited from the previous judgments and still need further correction to subdue them to the will of God.
Whatever we hold as the nature of the death state, may we let this truth sink deep into our hearts: DEATH IS TO BE ABOLISHED. The ringing declaration, 'The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is death' (I Cor. 15:26), overthrows the whole structure of accepted, but unproved, theology which shuts up the mass of the human race in 'eternal death.' When the 'last' enemy is abolished it is self-evident that none remains. Those wretched religionists who demand the endlessness of death, who argue for eternal torment in the lake of fire, the second death, do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. The lake of fire must end because death and hell are cast into it, which is the second death, and in the end THERE SHALL BE N-O M-O-R-E D-E-A- T-H. No more death! No more first death. No more second death. No more of any kind of death. To say there is no more death is to say that there are no more sinners, for sinners are DEAD MEN, dead in trespasses and in sins. To say there is no more death is to say that God has 'burned up' all the wicked and not left them dead, nor in hell; for as long as any creature of God is in a state of death, death is not abolished. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more hell, for hell is 'the realm of the dead.' To say there is no more death is to say there is no more a lake of fire, for the lake of fire IS the second DEATH. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more sin, for 'the wages of sin is DEATH.' What a universe of truth is contained in three little words: NO MORE DEATH!"
Eby
Whatever we hold as the nature of the death state, may we let this truth sink deep into our hearts: DEATH IS TO BE ABOLISHED. The ringing declaration, 'The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is death' (I Cor. 15:26), overthrows the whole structure of accepted, but unproved, theology which shuts up the mass of the human race in 'eternal death.' When the 'last' enemy is abolished it is self-evident that none remains. Those wretched religionists who demand the endlessness of death, who argue for eternal torment in the lake of fire, the second death, do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. The lake of fire must end because death and hell are cast into it, which is the second death, and in the end THERE SHALL BE N-O M-O-R-E D-E-A- T-H. No more death! No more first death. No more second death. No more of any kind of death. To say there is no more death is to say that there are no more sinners, for sinners are DEAD MEN, dead in trespasses and in sins. To say there is no more death is to say that God has 'burned up' all the wicked and not left them dead, nor in hell; for as long as any creature of God is in a state of death, death is not abolished. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more hell, for hell is 'the realm of the dead.' To say there is no more death is to say there is no more a lake of fire, for the lake of fire IS the second DEATH. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more sin, for 'the wages of sin is DEATH.' What a universe of truth is contained in three little words: NO MORE DEATH!"
Eby
Upvote
0
Why do people in the second death need ages of ages of purification before they can trust in Jesus? We in this life need no purification to trust in Jesus. we come to him just as we are, sinners. So why do they have to spend ages of ages getting pure enough to trust in Jesus?
Upvote
0
StudentoftheWord
Steward of the Word
I disagree. Sorry. It is the Death of Hell, Death of Death, Death of Devil, Death of Beast, Death of False Prophet and Death of Everyone whose name is not in the Lambs Book of Life.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liar; their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur, this is the second death."
Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Etc.
This is hard for many in Christian Universalism to grasp, because I feel they have claimed it to be a false doctrine on the basis of emotional discomfort. Misunderstanding that the Lake of Fire, is reserved for the enemies of God, not His Children. This is difficult to understand, because it is mostly taken as a literal event in which people are literally thrown to Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is also known as Outer Darkness and being Outside the City. These are clues in decifering what exactly Jesus is telling John in Revelation of Himself, and we can find these answers in the Law and the Prophets.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
