Saved through Fire

[Kimberlyann]

It came to mind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego was saved not from the fire but through the fire. I know the Bible is full of Parables and I thought this might be a shadow picture of things to come. I think the Bible is a great mystery. Full of literally true stories that have a deeper spiritual meaning. I was just wanting to see what you all think about these save through fire verses.

Psalms 66:8-12 8 Oh, bless our God, you peoples! And make the voice of His praise to be heard, 9 Who keeps our soul among the living, And does not allow our feet to be moved. 10 For You, O God, have tested us; You have refined us as silver is refined. 11 You brought us into the net; You laid affliction on our backs. 12 You have caused men to ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water; But You brought us out to rich fulfillment.

Isaiah 43:1-7 1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. 2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. 3 For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. 4 Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life. 5 Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; 6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not keep them back!' Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth-- 7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."


1Co 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.


1Co 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


1Pe 1:7 - that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

 

[buddy mack]

It came to mind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego was saved not from the fire but through the fire. I know the Bible is full of Parables and I thought this might be a shadow picture of things to come. I think the Bible is a great mystery. Full of literally true stories that have a deeper spiritual meaning. I was just wanting to see what you all think about these save through fire verses.

Psalms 66:8-12 8 Oh, bless our God, you peoples! And make the voice of His praise to be heard, 9 Who keeps our soul among the living, And does not allow our feet to be moved. 10 For You, O God, have tested us; You have refined us as silver is refined. 11 You brought us into the net; You laid affliction on our backs. 12 You have caused men to ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water; But You brought us out to rich fulfillment.

Isaiah 43:1-7 1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. 2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. 3 For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. 4 Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life. 5 Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; 6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not keep them back!' Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth-- 7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."


1Co 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.


1Co 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


1Pe 1:7 - that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

who is so beautiful in yellow. however, I don't see Satan being purifyed through the fire. after all it was created for him and his angels.

 

[Kimberlyann]

Thank you Buddy Mack. I think that is a beautiful dress too.

I don't know about Satan being purified. But I'm not the judge.

 

[buddy mack]

Thank you Buddy Mack. I think that is a beautiful dress too.

I don't know about Satan being purified. But I'm not the judge.

I bet U never get in a fight with anyone?
What a lovely soul, I wish i could be so calm all the time, but my irish temper gets the best of me, but not for long.

 

[Kimberlyann]

Buddy Mack,

I try not to fight. But sometimes you have to stand your ground.

I don't think I could ever be unkind to you. Your just to sweet. You always make me smile.

 

[2ducklow]

It came to mind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego was saved not from the fire but through the fire. I know the Bible is full of Parables and I thought this might be a shadow picture of things to come. I think the Bible is a great mystery. Full of literally true stories that have a deeper spiritual meaning. I was just wanting to see what you all think about these save through fire verses.

Shadrach, Meshach and Abed=nego were believers. and they weren't tormented. those not in the book of life are tormented in the lake of fire. according to the bible version of that verse. so there is no parallel. Paul cast an asp into a camp fire. every use of fire in the bible is not the same.

Psalms 66:8-12 8 Oh, bless our God, you peoples! And make the voice of His praise to be heard, 9 Who keeps our soul among the living, And does not allow our feet to be moved. 10 For You, O God, have tested us; You have refined us as silver is refined. 11 You brought us into the net; You laid affliction on our backs. 12 You have caused men to ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water; But You brought us out to rich fulfillment.

this is speaking of believers being chastised not unbelievers being tormented in the lake of fire.

Isaiah 43:1-7 1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. 2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. 3 For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. 4 Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life. 5 Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; 6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not keep them back!' Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth-- 7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."

this is speaking of believers not unbelievers cast into the lake of fire. stick your hand in front of your face and look at it. now you know you have a hand with 4 fingers and one thumb. you can't have faith that you have a hand with 4 fingers and a thumb because you know it, you see it. those in the lake of fire can't have faith in jesus, because they have seen him and been judged by him and cast into the lake of fire because of their lack of faith. they will know that Jesus is the savior but they can never have faith that Jesus is their savior. therefore they can never be saved for without faith it is impossible to please god and we are saved by faith, not fires of purification. no man can get pure enough to accept christ. we come to christ just as we are. we have nothing to lean upon but christ for our salvation. being tormented in a lake of fire for ages of ages doesn't save anyone. it takes faith, not purification to save someone.

1Co 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

Yes the believers works will be revealed but not by the lake of fire,

1Co 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

for the believer.

1Pe 1:7 - that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

those in the lake of fire are unbelievers who have no faith to be tested by fire. so this verse refers to believers not those who have no faith. God sends adversity to test our faith. he sends torment in the lake of fire to all those not in the lamb's book of life at the day of judgement. two different kinds of fires. selbsverstandlich.

 

[Kimberlyann]

Yes these verses are about believers. Who were saved by or through fire.



I can almost understand murderers and rapists and all the wicked being thrown into a literal lake of fire to be tortured for all eternity.

But what of the fearful and the unbelieving. Do they deserve the same fate. This doesnt sound like the punishment fits the crime to me. I thought God was the just Judge.

And what of those who never hear the Gospel? Would a just Judge burn these poor souls in hell because they weren't lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they died.

What about the verses that say, you didn't choose me but I choose you, and no one can come unless the Father draws him? I thought God wanted all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Or is that just the wish of a God that is to weak to accomplish His own will? I don't think so. My God is all powerful and I believe he is working everything according to His will and his will is for none to perish.

His grace is what saves us there is nothing we can do to earn it.

 

[2ducklow]

Yes these verses are about believers. Who were saved by or through fire.



I can almost understand murderers and rapists and all the wicked being thrown into a literal lake of fire to be tortured for all eternity.

But what of the fearful and the unbelieving. Do they deserve the same fate. This doesnt sound like the punishment fits the crime to me. I thought God was the just Judge.

There are different degrees of punishment. Satan will be tormented much more than those on the lower end of the scale.

Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And what of those who never hear the Gospel? Would a just Judge burn these poor souls in hell because they weren't lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they died.

They are judged by their conscience is all I can say. I suspect that even some of them lived by faith in the unknown god. the bible says that no man is without excuse because he has the law of god written on his conscience.

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

What about the verses that say, you didn't choose me but I choose you, and no one can come unless the Father draws him? I thought God wanted all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Or is that just the wish of a God that is to weak to accomplish His own will? I don't think so. My God is all powerful and I believe he is working everything according to His will and his will is for none to perish.

And my God said all those not in the book of life will be cast into the Lake of Fire that burns for ever and ever, or ages of ages if you prefer. ONe thing is for sure I won't have to answer for not speaking rev. 20.15. I won't have to answer for changing rev. 20.15 to something else.
His grace is what saves us there is nothing we can do to earn it.[/quote]

 

[Kimberlyann]

If the lake of fire is literal then how can there be different degrees of punishment for different people? Aren't they all in the same fire?

 

[EchoPneuma]

God is the fire. Paul tells UNBELIEVING PAGAN Athenians in Acts that they are God's offspring and regarding God he told them..."In Him WE (meaning himself AND THEM) live and move and have our being".

So those unbelievers were also God's offspring and have their being WITHIN God Himself.....who IS a consuming fire. So ALL fire in the bible refers to God Himself since our very BEING is WITHIN God Himself.

The spiritual condition of each person will determine how they will experience the fire of God......but since God is LOVE in His very essence, then His consuming fire is regulated, guided and controlled by His love.....which does NO HARM.

We must ALL go through the fire because we ALL have our very existence WITHIN the God of fire. I know I have experienced His purifying fire on many occasions. It has indeed consumed my willfulness, pride, anger, rebellion etc....as it will also consume those things in the unrepentant when they die.....doing them NO HARM.

That's how I see it......

 

[2ducklow]

If the lake of fire is literal then how can there be different degrees of punishment for different people? Aren't they all in the same fire?

I don't know how there can be different degrees of punishment. yes they are in the same fire. I could imagine with my mind how that is possible but I have no biblical evidence for how that might happen. send two firefighters into a blazing enferno , equip one with asbestos suits, the others just their regular clothes. one firefigther will suffer more from the heat than the other. same fire different degrees of suffering.

 

[Kimberlyann]

So then, the fearful and unbelieving people who are in the lake of fire will somehow be protected from the fire. It wont hurt them as bad as it hurts the wicked? Is that what your saying?

 

[RGL1]

It came to mind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego was saved not from the fire but through the fire. I know the Bible is full of Parables and I thought this might be a shadow picture of things to come. I think the Bible is a great mystery. Full of literally true stories that have a deeper spiritual meaning. I was just wanting to see what you all think about these save through fire verses.

Psalms 66:8-12 8 Oh, bless our God, you peoples! And make the voice of His praise to be heard, 9 Who keeps our soul among the living, And does not allow our feet to be moved. 10 For You, O God, have tested us; You have refined us as silver is refined. 11 You brought us into the net; You laid affliction on our backs. 12 You have caused men to ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water; But You brought us out to rich fulfillment.

Isaiah 43:1-7 1 But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. 2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. 3 For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. 4 Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life. 5 Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; 6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not keep them back!' Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth-- 7 Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."


1Co 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.


1Co 3:15 - If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


1Pe 1:7 - that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

It came to mind that Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego was saved not from the fire but through the fire.

I believe that this is historical narrative. Sure, you can make a deeper application that God is in control of all events and can overide nature to protect what is His.

The Psalms & Isaiah passages are simply talking about God keeping his people secure through to the end. It actually happened to Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego they where saved through and from the fire.

The Cor. text is dealing with the believers works and rewards.

The 1 Peter text is commenting on the faith the believers had and that it was being tested as a refiner tests metal. The testing or refining of our faith is done here.

I think the refiner imagery was discussed on another thread.

 

[2ducklow]

So then, the fearful and unbelieving people who are in the lake of fire will somehow be protected from the fire. It wont hurt them as bad as it hurts the wicked? Is that what your saying?

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


They are not just fearful and unbelieving. all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:22-23 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

we are all evil just some are more evil than others.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[Kimberlyann]

I believe that this is historical narrative. Sure, you can make a deeper application that God is in control of all events and can overide nature to protect what is His.

The Psalms & Isaiah passages are simply talking about God keeping his people secure through to the end. It actually happened to Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego they where saved through and from the fire.

The Cor. text is dealing with the believers works and rewards.

The 1 Peter text is commenting on the faith the believers had and that it was being tested as a refiner tests metal. The testing or refining of our faith is done here.

I think the refiner imagery was discussed on another thread.

Yes, I know.

What's your point? *asked mildly*

 

[Kimberlyann]

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


They are not just fearful and unbelieving. all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:22-23 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

we are all evil just some are more evil than others.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

2ducklow,

Yes, I know all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. That is why we need a Savior. That is what Jesus is, He is our Savior. And what does a Savior do? A Savior saves. And the Bible doesn't say He is only the Savior of those who believe. No it say He is the Savior of the world, especially of those who believe.

By the way, your post didn't answer my question.

 

[buddy mack]

So then, the fearful and unbelieving people who are in the lake of fire will somehow be protected from the fire. It wont hurt them as bad as it hurts the wicked? Is that what your saying?

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. Psalm 1:5.
the very first Psalms offer no second chance, but the sinners will not be in the congregation of the righteous, but where?

 

[RGL1]

Yes, I know.

What's your point? *asked mildly*

I was just wanting to see what you all think about these save through fire verses.

I was telling you what I think as you requested.

 

[2ducklow]

2ducklow,

Yes, I know all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. That is why we need a Savior. That is what Jesus is, He is our Savior. And what does a Savior do? A Savior saves. And the Bible doesn't say He is only the Savior of those who believe. No it say He is the Savior of the world, especially of those who believe.

By the way, your post didn't answer my question.

did too.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

therefore,

Jesus is the savior of the world because he that believes shall be saved and he that disbelieves shall be condemned. How many life rafts are on a boat. the life raft is the savior of everyone on the ship should it sink, it saves those who get in it, and those who do not get in it drown., therefore the liferafts are the savior of the ship.

 

[Kimberlyann]

So then, the fearful and unbelieving people who are in the lake of fire will somehow be protected from the fire. It wont hurt them as bad as it hurts the wicked? Is that what your saying?

2ducklow,

You didn't answer the above question.