Saved or unsaved

[pleinmont]

It's one thing to believe "mental assent" that Jesus is the Son of God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened." Even the demons believe this. We must also believe in our heart (and not just in our head) and we do this by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. That's what it means to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

Not a credible scenario, imo.

 

[Lazarus Long]

To receive Eternal Life a person must trust in The Messiah for The Messiah's free gift of His Eternal Life. That is what gives Eternal Life and salvation. Having knowledge of who Jesus is does not give eternal life.

When, during the process of evolution did a capacity for eternal life develop? You do understand that evolution is true and creation is primitive make believe?

 

[Unsavable]

And calling someone a demon isn't?

It was a simple humorous comment. A one liner. But you are right, it was off topic.

 

[Unsavable]

The missing piece may be God - or it could be a simple misunderstanding of what being saved or having a saving repentance looks like.

Here's the issue - saving faith doesn't mean your somehow perfect on day 1. It's simply a change in heart, after that, it's a lifetime of growing sanctification walking lockstep with God's Holy Spirit.

We are still in fleshly bodies so we will sin and err, we will then repent and go forward with life. We will have times of trial, and times of wondrous success.

Usually a good measuring stick is what is the change in a person...

Paul Washer (one of my favorite pastors) explained it like this.

Unsaved - A man is getting ready to head out the door, running late for a meeting at work, frustrated and with a million things on his mind. His wife stops him as he's hurriedly heading for the door and asks him to take out the trash.

Frustrated he yells at her "can't you see I'm late for the meeting?! No I won't take the trash out! You do it!" (Or something like that)

He goes to work and goes to the meeting feeling right about his actions.

3 months later the man comes to a saving faith in Christ.

There comes another day, again rushing out the door late for a meeting, and again his wife stops him and asks him to take out the trash on his way out the door.

Again he yells at her "Can't you see I'm late?! No I can't take the trash out you do it! I have to get to this meeting" and he slams the door on the way out.

All the way to work he feels bad for losing his temper and yelling at his wife, he just can't get it out of his head that he's done wrong.

He goes into work and is heading for the meeting, but he's still bothered about his behavior. He runs into his boss on the way to the meeting and says I'm going to be a few minutes late, there's something I have to do.

So he goes into his office and calls his wife and apologizes for yelling at her and asks for her forgiveness. After hanging up he says a quick prayer asking God to forgive him, then goes to the meeting...

Here what has changed isn't necessarily his actions, but his relation to his sin. Where once he felt right in his actions, they now bring him remorse and repentance.

Make sense?

So if you don't have a true saving faith, it's likely you'll simply not feel bad when you sin. You'll just run around just like before feeling right about yourself.

A good video is this:

Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply and video!

 

[d taylor]

When, during the process of evolution did a capacity for eternal life develop? You do understand that evolution is true and creation is primitive make believe?

Did santa claus tell you that.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Did santa claus tell you that.

It must really annoy you that neither you nor you story book can answer my questions. lol
I find it satisfyingly funny.

 

[Unsavable]

When, during the process of evolution did a capacity for eternal life develop? You do understand that evolution is true and creation is primitive make believe?

This is off topic but I will risk a brief response from someone who struggles with faith. Not saying that struggling with faith is a qualifier of expertise but I do try to mentally put things in a logical wrapper.

It seems to me you are confusing two topics. First Evolution describes how life forms change over time through a process of natural selection where some traits create survival advantages over others and therefore become dominant traits over time.

Creation refers to the beginning of life, or origins in Darwinian terms. Darwin expanded on his concept of evolution to suggest that the origin of life was a random and unguided arrangement of molecules that spontaneously created the first life form from which all life afterwards then evolved from.

There are very strong arguments against this. First off, life is not simply a complex array of molecules. It is a complex array of systems which must exist and function simultaneously in order for life to exist. This complexity makes the likelihood of random generation statistically impossible.

This makes the engineering and creation of life by one who has both the intellect and capability a very plausible explanation.

Now back to our regular scheduled program.

Assuming you had a sudden awakening and realization for the need to acknowledge your failings to God and ask for forgiveness. Do you think it would be adequate to simply know that Jesus is the son of the one living God and sins on the cross or do you think a greater commitment would be required?

 

[Lazarus Long]

Creation refers to the beginning of life, or origins in Darwinian terms

Creation refers to the story written by an ignorant, primitive savage who thought he could explain existence. He was wrong because he was IGNORANT.

 

[Unsavable]

Creation refers to the story written by an ignorant, primitive savage who thought he could explain existence. He was wrong because he was IGNORANT.

Clearly it would be impossible to conduct an intellectually honest conversation with you and your motivation for posting is obviously to demean and denigrate. I will offer this one piece of advice. You have probably heard the expression, "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." I can't think of a more appropriate example than this.

But I must ask, why the derision? Why the hatred and spite? What makes you think that you are superior to others when your own words are very simplistic? What has motivated you to spend your time coming here to insult people? You don't want to engage and grow. So what motivation is driving you? I assume you are in fact hurting and I would ask the believers on this thread to pray for you so that God would reveal Himself to you. Perhaps your pain exists so that you can glorify God by finally turning to Him in your struggles and need. And I would ask them to pray for me also so that I may experience the same in my own struggles.

Maybe, just maybe, God brought us together today, even contentiously, so that we might both learn from His grace.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Clearly it would be impossible to conduct an intellectually honest conversation with you and your motivation for posting is obviously to demean and denigrate.

Can you prove your author was not ignorant and just made up the creation story? I'm always honest, I'm not a god believer after all.

 

[Unsavable]

Can you prove your author was not ignorant and just made up the creation story? I'm always honest, I'm not a god believer after all.

You are hijacking this thread so I am going to stop responding.

Edit: I am redacting these comments as they are off topic and serve no useful purpose.

Now please, either address the topic or stop or I will report you to the moderators.

 

[d taylor]

It must really annoy you that neither you nor you story book can answer my questions. lol
I find it satisfyingly funny.

Explain the evolution of the birth process, include the evolution of the women's womb from a mass of slime. You can not so that is the end to your evolution lie.

From you scientist liars:
Evolution of life on Earth began about 3.5 billion years ago but it has not been a constant or continuous process.
During the middle years of Earth’s history (1.8 billion to 800 million years ago), evolution stagnated. Life remained as little more than a layer of slime for a billion years. This period has become known as the “boring billion” years.

 

[Unsavable]

Explain the evolution of the birth process, include the evolution of the women's womb from a mass of slime. You can not so that is the end to your evolution lie.

From you scientist liars:
Evolution of life on Earth began about 3.5 billion years ago but it has not been a constant or continuous process.
During the middle years of Earth’s history (1.8 billion to 800 million years ago), evolution stagnated. Life remained as little more than a layer of slime for a billion years. This period has become known as the “boring billion” years.

Please, I too am guilty but he is hijacking this thread. Its so easy to get drawn in but its time to let it go. Thank you

 

[Ophiolite]

Explain the evolution of the birth process, include the evolution of the women's womb from a mass of slime. You can not so that is the end to your evolution lie.

The evolution is explained in detail in many textbooks and research papers. Your unwillingness to consult this reservoir of knowledge is your choice. I can do nothing to help you overcome this ignorance of this topic if you choose to avoid the answers to your challenge.

From you scientist liars:

I would ask that you not use inflammatory and inaccurate language.

Evolution of life on Earth began about 3.5 billion years ago but it has not been a constant or continuous process.
During the middle years of Earth’s history (1.8 billion to 800 million years ago), evolution stagnated. Life remained as little more than a layer of slime for a billion years. This period has become known as the “boring billion” years.

Where have you sourced this quote? The first sentence is fine. The second is not couched in scientific language and would not represent a consensus view, as expressed.

 

[Unsavable]

The evolution is explained in detail in many textbooks and research papers. Your unwillingness to consult this reservoir of knowledge is your choice. I can do nothing to help you overcome this ignorance of this topic if you choose to avoid the answers to your challenge.

I would ask that you not use inflammatory and inaccurate language.

Where have you sourced this quote? The first sentence is fine. The second is not couched in scientific language and would not represent a consensus view, as expressed.

Evolution is well documented but offers no evidence or proof on Darwin's premise on origins.

So do you think that knowledge of salvation is enough or is there more required to be "saved"?

Thank you

 

[Unsavable]

Explain the evolution of the birth process, include the evolution of the women's womb from a mass of slime. You can not so that is the end to your evolution lie.

From you scientist liars:
Evolution of life on Earth began about 3.5 billion years ago but it has not been a constant or continuous process.
During the middle years of Earth’s history (1.8 billion to 800 million years ago), evolution stagnated. Life remained as little more than a layer of slime for a billion years. This period has become known as the “boring billion” years.

These are some very interesting facts. I don't think I've ever read that book.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

 

[Ophiolite]

Evolution is well documented but offers no evidence or proof on Darwin's premise on origins.

Which origins?

If you mean the origins of humanity, a vast amount of evidence is offered by evolutionary theory.

If you mean the origins of life, why would you expect a theory conceived to address the diversity of species arising from a common ancestor to have much to say about the origin of said ancestor? Darwin certainly had almost nothing to say on the matter, other than his "warm little pond" paragraph in the letter to his friend Joseph Hooker.

So do you think that knowledge of salvation is enough or is there more required to be "saved"?

Please note I am registered here as an agnostic and, in relation to the Christian God, I am an atheist. Consequently, salvation is not a concept I consider meaningful in the Christian sense.

 

[Unsavable]

Which origins?

If you mean the origins of humanity, a vast amount of evidence is offered by evolutionary theory.

If you mean the origins of life, why would you expect a theory conceived to address the diversity of species arising from a common ancestor to have much to say about the origin of said ancestor? Darwin certainly had almost nothing to say on the matter, other than his "warm little pond" paragraph in the letter to his friend Joseph Hooker.

Please note I am registered here as an agnostic and, in relation to the Christian God, I am an atheist. Consequently, salvation is not a concept I consider meaningful in the Christian sense.

a. Exactly!

b. Then why are you posting in a thread on the topic of salvation if you don't have any thoughts or questions on the subject?

 

[Ophiolite]

a. Exactly!

I admire concision in writing, but sometimes it is taken so far that the intended meaning is entirely lost. What do you mean? You seem to be suggesting you have just proved a point. If so, what?

b. Then why are you posting in a thread on the topic of salvation if you don't have any thoughts or questions on the subject?

1. When a member posts nonsense I feel it is appropriate to correct, or comment on that nonsense. Hence, I responded to dqhall's post.
2. I suggest the viewpoint that the concept of salvation is not meaningful is a "thought on the subject".

I'm sensing a degree of hostility. I hope that is just my latent paranoia.

 

[Unsavable]

I admire concision in writing, but sometimes it is taken so far that the intended meaning is entirely lost. What do you mean? You seem to be suggesting you have just proved a point. If so, what?

1. When a member posts nonsense I feel it is appropriate to correct, or comment on that nonsense. Hence, I responded to dqhall's post.
2. I suggest the viewpoint that the concept of salvation is not meaningful is a "thought on the subject".

I'm sensing a degree of hostility. I hope that is just my latent paranoia.

Hostility, no, frustration, yes. This thread started out so nice. Many thoughtful people making many interesting and positive comments. Then out of nowhere somebody decided to snottily denigrate believers based on some rotten attitude, pompous, holier than thou, steeped in ignorance, comments related to evolution and creationism. I made the mistake of addressing those comments and even explained that origins and evolution are really separate topics and the poster was confusing them. You can read my post above. Then somebody else posted some, I don't even know what, "facts" from the funny farm and it just escalated. Then I tried bringing the conversation back to the topic. Regardless of your atheist viewpoint your comments were not related to the topic. And you were calling out somebody...honestly, what for? The post had nothing in it that made it worth addressing. Couldn't you just roll your eyes and move on? Instead you decided to attack what you believed was the weaker opponent, hoping to gain, God only knows what, and that is why I asked you about your thoughts on the TOPIC!!!

So yes, I am getting frustrated.