LDS Saved or Saved?

[Rescued One]

You are not a puppet. God is not going to save you unless you do certain things. You have to at least believe, Right? Or does God make you believe? And if God makes some believe, but not others, what kind of a God are we talking about?

We're talking about a God who isn't helpless and whose purposes you condemn.

Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

God didn't make puppets; people did. If you want to call the sheep puppets, that's your perogative. But you will be wrong. Sheep are followers. Christians are followers of Christ.


Ezekiel 36:26
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

2 Corinthians 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Romans 9
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Rescued One]

You are not a puppet. God is not going to save you unless you do certain things. You have to at least believe, Right? Or does God make you believe? And if God makes some believe, but not others, what kind of a God are we talking about?

Faith comes from God! Without His Spirit, we have no faith!

James 1
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

 

[He is the way]

You obviously don't understand:

God saves us, He frees us from Satan's power, He makes us new creatures, He conforms us to the image of Christ, He sanctifies and perfects us, He gives us ALL spiritual blessings, He glorifies us, He provides all our needs: the gift of God is eternal life.

It is important to believe and adhere to every word that God speaks, not only part of them:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 9)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(Old Testament | 2 Kings 23:1 - 3)

1 AND the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem.
2 And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which was found in the house of the LORD.
3 ¶ And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

 

[He is the way]

Faith comes from God! Without His Spirit, we have no faith!

James 1
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Faith and righteousness are not gifts.

 

[Rescued One]

Trying to keep the Law makes you guilty. Only JESUS saves.

 

[Rescued One]

Faith and righteousness are not gifts.

The Holy Spirit says , "Yes, they are."

 

[He is the way]

Trying to keep the Law makes you guilty. Only JESUS saves.

After baptism we should NOT serve sin:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 6)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[He is the way]

The Holy Spirit says , "Yes, they are."

Which holy spirit are you listening to?

 

[Rescued One]

After baptism we should NOT serve sin:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 6)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Then I suggest you repent. Christians are not serving sin. We serve Christ.

The 613 Commandments (Mitzvot)

 

[Rescued One]

Which holy spirit are you listening to?

The ONLY true Holy Spirit by the grace of God that was given me.

 

[He is the way]

Then I suggest you repent. Christians are not serving sin. We serve Christ.

So are you saying they keep the commandments?

 

[Rescued One]

So are you saying they keep the commandments?

You'd never know. You don't even know what God's commandments are.

 

[He is the way]

The ONLY true Holy Spirit by the grace of God that was given me.

So is this the gospel according to Phoebe Ann?:

 

[He is the way]

You'd never know. You don't even know what God's commandments are.

Yes I do:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Rescued One]

So is this the gospel according to Phoebe Ann?:

No, the gospel is in the Holy Bible.

 

[He is the way]

No, the gospel is in the Holy Bible.

I said: "Faith and righteousness are not gifts."

To which you said: "The Holy Spirit says , "Yes, they are.""

Is this in the Bible? Do you have a reference?

 

[Ran77]

They sided with Christ before coming to earth per Mormonism. And of course, your god, knew their futures.

That sounds as if God, as you understand Him, does have the power to know our future. How is what you propose any worse than God, as mainstream Christians understand Him, creating us even though He knows our future? That would mean He created those who He knew full well would sin and be punished to everlasting torment in hell.

 

[Peter1000]

We're talking about a God who isn't helpless and whose purposes you condemn.

Pearl of Great Price, Moses 1:39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

God didn't make puppets; people did. If you want to call the sheep puppets, that's your perogative. But you will be wrong. Sheep are followers. Christians are followers of Christ.


Ezekiel 36:26
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

2 Corinthians 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Romans 9
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?[/QUOTE]

We're talking about a God who isn't helpless and whose purposes you condemn.

You really make silly and unfounded statements like this. Do you sit up all night, thinking of these statements?

God is certainly not helpless. Just because he doesn't save everyone in the Celestial Kingdom does not make Him helpless.

As far as His purposes, we certainly do not condemn any of His purposes, so you will have to make up a different statement about member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Try again.

 

[Peter1000]

You'd never know. You don't even know what God's commandments are.

Do you know, or do you even care what God's commandments are?

 

[Rescued One]

Yes I do:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:37 - 40)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Per Mormonism, you must keep all the laws and commandments and ordinances that Joseph Smith commanded. The Bible is an insufficient guide to eternal life in your religion.

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

Mormon scripture criticizes the Bible:
1 Nephi 13
29 And after these plain and precious things were ataken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the [Bible]book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 13:8 Behold the gold, and the silver… and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church

In 1510, Martin Luther visited Rome. As a German monk, he was associated with a group of pious priests who took their stewardship seriously. What he saw in Rome shocked him:

“The abysmal ignorance, frivolity, and levity of the Italian priests stupefied him. They… were flippantly unbelieving and would address the sacrament saying, ‘Bread art thou and bread thou wilt remain, and wine art thou and wine thou wilt remain.’ (The doctrine at the time was that the bread and wine actually turned into the body and blood of Christ by a process called transubstantiation. The priests were mocking this doctrine) To a devout believer from the unsophisticated Northland such disclosures were truly shocking...

[Hearing] of the immorality of the Roman clergy… [Luther wondered] if there were a hell Rome was built upon it… the district of ill fame was frequented by ecclesiastics (priests). He heard there were those who considered themselves virtuous because they confined themselves to women.” (RH Bainton, Here I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther, [Peabody Mass., Hendrickson Publishers, 1950], p. 31)
1 Nephi 13 | Gospel Doctrine

James E. Talmage recorded the importance of councils held later to determine what should be included as canon:

"In addition to individual testimony we have that of ecclesiastical councils and official bodies, by whom the question of authenticity [of the books of the New Testament] was tried and decided. In this connection may be mentioned the Council of Nice, 325 A.D.; the Council of Laodicea, 363 A.D.; the Council of Hippo, 393 A.D.; the third and the sixth Councils of Carthage, 397 and 419 A.D.

"Since the date last named, no dispute as to the authenticity of the New Testament has claimed much attention. The present is too late a time and the separating distance too vast to encourage the reopening of the question. The New Testament must be accepted for what it claims to be; and though, perhaps, many precious parts have been suppressed or lost, while some corruptions of the texts may have crept in, and errors have been inadvertently introduced through the incapacity of translators, the volume as a whole must be admitted as authentic and credible, and as an essential part of the Holy Scriptures." (A Study of the Articles of Faith, James E. Talmage, p. 248)
1 Nephi 13 | Gospel Doctrine

Requirements for Eternal Life (according to Mormonism):

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us all the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1.
We must be baptized.
. 2.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
. 4.
We must receive the temple endowment.
. 5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
2. Keep the commandments.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
9. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
10. Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
Gospel Principles, c. 1978, 1979, and 1981, Chapter 47, Exaltation, p. 291-292

There are actually more requirements.

“For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for the blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted before the foundations of the world. (D&C 132:5.)”
Elray L. Christiansen, General Conference, Oct. 1972

• Men gain eternal life through the oath and covenant of the priesthood, D&C 84:33–42.
• All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, and oaths not sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise end when men die, D&C 132:7.

Oath