Saved??? From what???

[DreadWarrior]

I just feel you're being purposely esoteric.

 

[Setyoufree]

I just feel you're being purposely esoteric.

No, not purposely....I just understand the gospel because of the grace of God. I use to be a legalist of the worst sort.

 

[Cribstyl]

After reading several of Setyoufree's posts, he seems to be trying to make a point, but is unable to nail down exactly what he's getting at. Yes we're all sinners, and yes the law has made us more aware of our unholiness. Because our God is holy he can't come near to us because of us uncleanliness and sin, so he sent his son Jesus to be the perfect sacrifice to cover our sins. In the old covenant, animal sacrifice was used to cover the sins of man because the penalty for sin is death. But now we're covered by the death of the perfect sacrifice, so while we may still struggle with sin of the flesh (And Paul states in Romans) we've been given a new heart and nature and have been forgiven in spite of being undeserving.

Many truth in your post are to be embraced. If you read Setyoufree's posts beyond the OP, for example post #5 his major point is where the law fits into the big picture. He has an unmentioned premise that sin's foremost definiton is; "sin is transgression of the law".
If you read post #5 , notice his edit to make scripture appear to say; The result of Adam's transgression brought condemnation, so the law was added........ Here is his quote...

Now read Romans 5:18 "the result of one trespass (Adam's) was condemnation for all men"....verse 20: "The law was added so that the trespass might increase"

SDA have to ignor or reject NT scriptures reenforcing the law came by Moses. When you corner them with scripture, they use questions and reasonings to avoid certain scriptures. You should know "The law was added" is referenced to after the Children of Israel was freed from Egypt. Paul clarify this issue to the Galatians by saying; the law came 430yrs after the promise to Abraham.

 

[Cribstyl]

When the bible asks a critical question and gives the answers, why should we adopt a lie over the truth?

Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law?

It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Simple understanding is this Q&A is;
Why was the law put into service?


The fact that the mediator is Moses is a slam dunk on when the law was given.
The fact that the seed is Jesus is a no-brainer of "until" when the law would reign.

 

[Cribstyl]

When the bible asks a critical question and gives the answers, why should we adopt a lie over the truth?

Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law?

It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Simple understanding is this Q&A is;
Why was the law put into service?

1 fact in text above prove the mediator is Moses through him the law was given.
Another fact is the law would reign until Jesus the seed would die.

If my understanding of this scripture is truth; How will God judge the world if not by the law?
We also have that question and answer directly from the scriptures with no strings attached.

Rom 3:6
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?



Rom 3:9
¶ What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Bottom line is both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

It does take a measure of knowledge to know that Jews represents people who were given the law and Gentiles represent people to whom God never sent prophets or angels with the law or to be made as His people. It had always been in God's timing when all nations would be blessed. (THE PROMISE)
The scriptures clarifies that both people or all people are under sin.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Not even one person can claim they're righteous.
If my SDA friends would check the, murder, divorce, adultery, and stealing statistics, they might get a rude awaking about who is keeping the law.


Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
This text is often taken out of context to say to that; all the world is guilty of breaking the law.
This text is first saying; What the law says, is to those who are under the law. And every mouth that reads or hear the law, can say, I am guilty of sin. (not law breaking)
It's a false teaching to say that everyone is under the law.

So after explaining that noone is able to be declared righteous by the law, the following text explains exactly how God will judge the world.

Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Clue: You're not justified by keeping the law; The law is only a label of a crime you may have committed.
Clue: Justification is a process or procedure whereby one is declare righteous.
Clue: Paul is saying that God will not the world judge by the law.


Rom 3:21
¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Reenforcing clearly that; From Now on being declared righteous is not base on the law. This scripture make clear that God's judgment without the law was already written into the law. So that truth cannot change from the law. Dont lose the fact that sin is what will be judged.


Rom 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
This text above make it clear that "ONLY" righteousness by FAITH is how people will be declared righteous.

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Our Gospel is: God is not going to challenge us against "the law" because not one person will pass. He is going to ask us; What have you done with the blood of my Son?

The reason why SDA teach by Q&A is to avoid clear scriptures that contradict their doctrines. We can catch them fumbling through every scriptures they present are truth.


Get at me...

 

[squint]

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
This text is often taken out of context to say to that; all the world is guilty of breaking the law.
This text is first saying; What the law says, is to those who are under the law. And every mouth that reads or hear the law, can say, I am guilty of sin. (not law breaking)
It's a false teaching to say that everyone is under the law.

There was apparently a very big name false teacher then:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Presuming you accept that Gods Words, were, you know, Gods Words?

How many would you seek to set aside?

s

 

[Cribstyl]

There was apparently a very big name false teacher then:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Presuming you accept that Gods Words, were, you know, Gods Words?

How many would you seek to set aside?

Your post has always been strategy to defraud. I'm not a puppy dog to chase after your position and you won't refute my post.
Since when does living by every word of God means that Christian's are under a law given to the Children of Israel until Christ come?

 

[squint]

Your post has always been strategy to defraud.

Why would any believer have a hard time believing what Jesus said about Gods Word? It seems abundantly clear, doesn't it?

I'm not a puppy dog to chase after your position and you won't refute my post.

I just cited an exact opposite statement, comparing yours to Christ's Own Words. So what do you say about that?

If a believer sees those Words of Christ, and MANY others similar about His Words, His Law, and your pack comes along to try to use other one liners to trample them, what do you expect to hear? Why believe you rather than CHRIST?

Since when does living by every word of God means that Christian's are under a law given to the Children of Israel until Christ come?

Jesus' Statement is a statement of fact.

The bolded part of your claim, which I highlighted in my post to you, was the exact opposite of Jesus' Statement of FACT.

So, what do you make of that?

The methodology of using Gods Words to eradicate Gods Words doesn't compute. Nor does it have to work that way, as it does not.

There is not ONE THING WRONG with the LAW being against our and the whole worlds SIN and evil. Not one thing wrong with that.

Neither is it wrong to come under GUILT for the fact of our SIN.

A man in Truth hangs his own head before God in that FACT. The cockeyed notion that we are currently SCOT FREE is utterly ridiculous when faced with the facts.

God called no one to lie about being a sinner, before or AFTER salvation.

s

 

[Cribstyl]

Why would any believer have a hard time believing what Jesus said about Gods Word? It seems abundantly clear, doesn't it?

Raising a straw argument. My questions and answers were quotes from Paul and my comment are on the scriptures posted in the blueletters

I just cited an exact opposite statement, comparing yours to Christ's Own Words. So what do you say about that?

You highlighted my words saying....It's a false teaching to say that everyone is under the law.
Then you posted Jesus saying; Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


Is that the opposite of what I said? Or are you up to derailing what I posted without refuting any of it.

If a believer sees those Words of Christ, and MANY others similar about His Words, His Law, and your pack comes along to try to use other one liners to trample them, what do you expect to hear? Why believe you rather than CHRIST?

Your argument is based on lies.

Jesus' Statement is a statement of fact.

The bolded part of your claim, which I highlighted in my post to you, was the exact opposite of Jesus' Statement of FACT.

So, what do you make of that?

You're make false statements

The methodology of using Gods Words to eradicate Gods Words doesn't compute. Nor does it have to work that way, as it does not.

There is not ONE THING WRONG with the LAW being against our and the whole worlds SIN and evil. Not one thing wrong with that.

Neither is it wrong to come under GUILT for the fact of our SIN.

A man in Truth hangs his own head before God in that FACT. The cockeyed notion that we are currently SCOT FREE is utterly ridiculous when faced with the facts.

God called no one to lie about being a sinner, before or AFTER salvation.

s

liar, liar

 

[FullonGrace]

Does Jesus not say in Mark 14: When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them. Why do you then argue if you are saved and fRom what? Im noy perfect in my spiritual life all im saying is believe Jusus saved you from your sin, he offers eternal life only through him, Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings.

 

[squint]

Does Jesus not say in Mark 14: When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them. Why do you then argue if you are saved and fRom what? Im noy perfect in my spiritual life all im saying is believe Jusus saved you from your sin, he offers eternal life only through him, Jesus is Lord of lords and King of kings.

Is anyone disagreeing? Those who condemn children are (pawned) enemies of the Gospel.

Jesus Is Lord and Savior, particularly of children!

s

 

[Setyoufree]

Why was the law put into service?

The law was put in place to put the glory of men in the dust. It was put in place to prove the impossibility of winning heaven through works. The law was put into place that sinners might see their need of Christ and accept His deliverance from under law to under grace.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

The law was put in place to put the glory of men in the dust. It was put in place to prove the impossibility of winning heaven through works. The law was put into place that sinners might see their need of Christ and accept His deliverance from under law to under grace.

Lets look at the point in time when God gave the law to Moses. Was the nation of Israel glorifying themselves above God then? This reasoning makes no sense. In fact, while Moses was receiving the law the Israelites was worshiping a golden calf already breaking the same law being given. Also, there were never before trying to gain heaven through facts. In fact, that nation of Israel at that time was being reeducated in the ways of God. This reasoning is so aweful.

 

[Setyoufree]

Lets look at the point in time when God gave the law to Moses. Was the nation of Israel glorifying themselves above God then? This reasoning makes no sense.

Absolutely! What was the religion of the Egyptians? Pagan...heathen, right? Do you realize that all non-Christian religions are based on salvation by works in appeasing an angry god(s)?

The Jews were raised in this environment for over 400 yrs. Please don't tell me this didn't affect them!

After all, why do you think the Jews entered into the Old Covenant? Didn't God know they couldn't keep the law? Yes, but they didn't know. Why?

Again, they were raised by the Egyptians and their religions influenced the Jews.....

Hence the giving of the law was to expose their self-righteousness and to place their self-confidence in the dust of the ground.

 

[Setyoufree]

Here are some quotes from my SDA friends that agree with my above statements:

"The principle that man can save himself by his own works lay at the foundation of every heathen religion."

"What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ."

 

[Setyoufree]

Here are some quotes from my SDA friends that agree with my above statements:

"The principle that man can save himself by his own works lay at the foundation of every heathen religion."

"What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ."

So God's law was given, not to improve mankind's situation, but to make it worse. The law, states Paul, "was added so that the trespass might increase".... (Rom 5:20)

Galatians chapter three makes it very plain why God gave the law:

Gal 3:22...the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin,http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38 so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

In other words the Bible declares that we are a bunch of sinners....

23 Before this faith came, we were held prisonershttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39 by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-hhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41 that we might be justified by faith.http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law....

So the law was given to turn sin into transgression....It was given to make our situation impossible so that we would flee to Christ and be delivered from under the death sentence. Once we accept Christ we move from under condemnation to under grace....Then we stand justified by faith.

But notice that the law was very instrumental in driving us to Christ. The law does this because it makes our situation impossible. Only the self-righteous refuse to hear what the law states.

Guess what happens to the self-righteous?

Proverbs 28:9

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination"

What does the law say? It says you are 100% sinner!!! If you refuse what the law tells you then your prayers will be abomination before God. Why? Because God hates self-righteousness because it is the only sin that can cause one to be lost.

 

[Cribstyl]

Lets look at the point in time when God gave the law to Moses.

Was the nation of Israel glorifying themselves above God then?

This reasoning makes no sense.[/QUOTE] Agreed

In fact, while Moses was receiving the law the Israelites was worshiping a golden calf already breaking the same law being given.

Agreed

Also, there were never before trying to gain heaven through facts.

Agreed, freedom from slavery was probably a reasonable hope.

In fact, that nation of Israel at that time was being reeducated in the ways of God. This reasoning is so aweful.

What do you mean by reeducated?

 

[MamaZ]

Let's explore what it means "to be saved". In order to be saved you must be delivered from something. What is that something???

In Romans 10:9 Paul states that "If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved"....

Again, saved from what?

He has saved us from our sin. He has put His Spirit within us and translated us from darkness to light.. We are to love as He loved and be willing to lay our life down for mankind. We are to love anyone unconditionally. For with this we know that we are true Children of God and that we truly have been saved from our sins.

 

[Setyoufree]

He has saved us from our sin.

Then you are without sin. Congrats...

We are to love anyone unconditionally.

Great, I know some people who are having it bad - they live under a bridge. Since you profess to love them in the same you love yourself please sell all your possessions and give the money to these poor folks. That's unconditionally love. Still there?

 

[MamaZ]

Then you are without sin. Congrats...




Great, I know some people who are having it bad - they live under a bridge. Since you profess to love them in the same you love yourself please sell all your possessions and give the money to these poor folks. That's unconditionally love. Still there?

Silver and gold have I none but in the name of Jesus I can lead them to the one who provides all their needs according to His riches. If you have him where you live means nothing. For there is more to life than possessions.. For even He had no place to lay His head. We will always have the poor. But if you cannot love them and sit with them and warm yourself by their fire then who are you? One can give them a place to live and give them all the possessions they have in the world. But yet if you cannot give them the life giving Living word then what good does it really do them?