Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

Studyman · Apr 18, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Except for maybe the Law on divorce, Moses did not create all of the Law. So the question you ask is based on a false assumption that I do not believe is true, brother.

Now, now, I didn't assume anything, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page regarding that Moses didn't create Law. God did, and gave it to him. I won't go into divorce, only to say that I don't believe Moses created divorce Law, and the God of Abraham obeyed Moses.

Jer. 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Before Jesus came, sins were forgiven by offering animal for sacrifice to the priest.

So then, God gave Moses Atonement laws for justification "by offering animal for sacrifice to the priest" as you correctly answered. This was before Jesus came. After Jesus Came, HE became our High Priest, Yes? And He shed HIS OWN Blood for justification. We are forgiven/justified by having Faith in HIS Blood, not the Blood of animals. Because by the Blood of animals is no flesh justified. These sacrifices were a "shadow" of the Lamb of God which would come "After those days".

Heb. 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Therefore;

Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man ( New High Priest) is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: (Justification)

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (As you said, "sins were forgiven by offering animal for sacrifice to the priest")

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

These atonement laws, that Abraham didn't have, were "ADDED" to God's Commandments because of Transgressions, "till the Seed (Messiah) should come". The Pharisees, that the Apostles were speaking to in the synagogue, didn't believe Jesus had become God's High Priest, so they were still relying on the Sacrificial "works of the Law" God gave Moses, for forgiveness.

They didn't know, or believed, that the Priesthood had changed as promised in Jer. 31.

It is a popular false doctrine taught in the religions of the land i was born into, that the "Work's of the Law" Paul is speaking to, were all the Laws God gave Moses. But the Scriptures teach Paul is speaking to the sacrificial "works" of the Law given by Covenant to Levi on Israel's behalf, "Till the Seed should come". Abraham was Justified/forgiven apart from the atonement Laws God gave Moses.

I think this is important Biblical Truth.

chilehed · Apr 18, 2021

BobRyan said:
Is there a text where Jesus said He gave someone the authority to edit the Word of God?

False premise. Establishing that the Lord's Day would be the preeminent day of worship for Christians did not involve any editing of sacred test.

Saint Steven said:
The Sabbatarians actually agree with you that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday.

I never said that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday (it wasn't), nor is that the premise of the OP.

It's clear that, from the earliest days of the Christian Church, the preeminent day of worship for Christians was the Lord's Day (Sunday), and this could only have been established by the Apostles since they were the only ones who had the ability and authority to preside over the services.

Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to speak on his behalf.

For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. (Matthew 10:20)

Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." (Luke 10:16)

Jesus promised that the Apostles would never teach erroneous doctrine.

As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.(John 17:17-19)

Jesus gave the Apostles, and not the believers at large, the authority to interpret Scripture and teach binding doctrine.

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. (Rom 13:1-2)

Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Heb. 13:17)

I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines (1 Tim 1:3)

We did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we had been eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received honor and glory from God the Father when that unique declaration came to him from the majestic glory, "This is my Son, my beloved, with whom I am well pleased." We ourselves heard this voice come from heaven while we were with him on the holy mountain. Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God. (2 Pet. 1:1621, 3:2)

This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; through them by way of reminder I am trying to stir up your sincere disposition, to recall the words previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and savior through your apostles. (2 Pet. 3:2)

In them (Pauls letters) there are some things hard to understand that the ignrant and unstable distort to their destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. (2 Pet. 3:16)

Since Christ gave such sweeping authority in matters of doctrine to the Apostles, how much more should we consider their authority to be in matters of discipline! So anyone who comes along at some later date and questions what the Apostles established is acting on their own authority, and can be safely ignored. I suggest prayerful meditation on Colossians, Chapter 2.

Saint Steven · Apr 18, 2021

chilehed said:
It's clear that, from the earliest days of the Christian Church, the preeminent day of worship for Christians was the Lord's Day (Sunday), and this could only have been established by the Apostles since they were the only ones who had the ability and authority to preside over the services.

What evidence do you have that this is a historical fact? You write, "... from the earliest days of the Christian Church..." There should be a biblical witness to this. Where is it? In my experience, the evidence is pretty thin.

chilehed · Apr 18, 2021

Saint Steven said:
What evidence do you have that this is a historical fact? You write, "... from the earliest days of the Christian Church..." There should be a biblical witness to this. Where is it? In my

You're kidding, right? If you really think that then I doubt there's anything I can do to convince you otherwise.

ViaCrucis · Apr 18, 2021

Semper-Fi said:
What historians say, and what they call the lost century in history.

as Edward Gibbon wrote in
The History of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire

"The scanty materials of ecclesiastical history seldom enable us
to dispel the cloud that hangs over the first age of the church .

-
Jesse Lyman Hurlbert in
The story of the christian church

the age just after the book of acts he calls "..the age of shadows.."
"of all the periods in the churches history, it is the one about which we know
the least about. For fifty years after St. Paul's life a curtain hangs over the church,
through which we strive vainly to look;

-
William McLaughlin in
The Course of Christian History

"But Christianity itself had been in the process of transformation as it progressed
and at the close of the period was in many respects quite different from the apostolic
Christianity."

-
Samuel G. Green in
A handbook of church History

"The thirty years which followed the close of the New Testement canon and the
destruction of Jerusalem, are in truth the most obscure in the history of the church.
When we emerge in the second century, we are to a great extent in a changed world."

-
William fitzgerald in
lectures on ecclesiastical History

"over this period of transition, which immediatly succeeds upon
the era properly called apostolic, great obscurity hangs."

-
Philip Schaff in
History of the Christian Church

"The remaining thirty years of the first century are involved in mysterious darkness,
illuminated only by the writings of John. This is a period of church history about which
we know least and would like to know most."

"Simon Magus unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagon ideas and practices
and gave himself out for an emanation of God."

"This heresy in the second century spread over the whole church, east and west,
in the various schools of agnosticism."

I'm not sure what it is you think you are demonstrating with these quotes.

So you really believe that, in the first century, "the Catholic Church" banned the Bible, and corrupted Christianity forever?

And you think these quotes you've provided give credence to that position?

I'm not even sure how to take this seriously enough to bother debating it. You might as well be arguing that the earth is flat and that lizard people control the governments.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Apr 18, 2021

JMV said:
Embrace YAHUSHUA as He really is, and not as you would have Him be, lest you be found a liar that terrible day when the Fire comes to test the quality of each man's work, whether good or bad... Thus says the Lord whose name is YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH, of your church called the mother:

"5/14/05 From The Lord, Our God and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Thus says The Lord: Beware, O peoples of the church called mother. For she is a harlot, a false way, a deceitful house filled with both great and subtle deceptions. Be wary, rouse yourselves from this heavy sleep, and look upon the fruit of your doings. For you have been greatly misled, caught up in a faith which is dead; there is no life in it! For as it was written by My servant, so in like manner I now plead with you: Depart from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things, from those who leave the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, who rejoice in doing evil and delight in the perversity of the pagan, whose ways are crooked and who are devious in their paths. Be delivered from the adulterous woman, from the seductress who flatters with her words, who forsakes the husband of her youth and forgets the covenant of her God. For her house is sinking down to death, and all her paths lead to the dead.[1]

Therefore thus says The Lord God, The Holy One of Israel, to all who have ears to hear: This unholy church of men is a harlot! From the beginning she has been a harlot! Yet she would have all believe she is a queen, even the true church and mother. Indeed, she has bore many sons and daughters, daughters who yet bear her likeness; and many sons who shall go to perdition, false fathers and priests, who by their own authority take to themselves proselytes, who they then make twice as fit for destruction as themselves![2] Behold, deception is hidden within deception, as she continues to build up her sins toward Heaven.

For I tell you a mystery filled with corruption,
Abuse of power and contemptible ways:

This church of men is like the woman who rides the beast;
She is clothed with purple and scarlet, enticing the
People to commit fornication with her...

Yet to her own, she is a queen who sits upon
My throne and has taken to herself My authority,
Perverting My Word and changing My Commandments
As she appoints kings and princes in her own name,
Each with names of blasphemy upon their heads,
So-called holy fathers who shall go into perdition with her...

And yet to those against her, she is the beast.

Yet I tell you the truth, all are deceived. For her power and authority come from the beast, which atop she sits. For she has many names of blasphemy, and all her works are an abomination before The Lord. She is indeed a harlot, and her adulteries are many. Behold, she is also like the great harlot who sits upon many waters, who has corrupted the earth with her fornications. And like the false prophet she spews perverse and bitter doctrine, leading many into false worship, even to the committing of fornication with the pagan and the heathen by all her filthy traditions! And like the beast, she has shed the blood of My servants throughout her generations, and has not ceased from opening her mouth to speak great things and blasphemies with a practiced and lying tongue, by which she has deceived many. Therefore, I must take My people out of her! Behold, I shall snatch them from her very breast! For she is also like Babylon, adorning herself with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornications.[3]

Thus says The Lord to the deceptive harlot, to the mother of all fornications: Woe, I say to you! Even three times, woe! For the atheist shall have it far better than you, when the wrath of the great and dreadful God has come! For when they seek forgiveness, they shall surely find it. Yet woe to you who blaspheme The Spirit; from you forgiveness has fled away![4] Behold, destruction waits for you as you continue to tread the wide path![5]
For you believe yourself to be a glorious vine, yet your roots are full of rottenness, a vine of deceit with many tendrils spreading forth abomination! Behold, you see yourself as a sovereign nation, as the mother church, universal, and yet you willingly go into captivity and hold fast in your rebellion! Therefore, I shall make you a desolation and an astonishment, an object of horror and hissing; I shall strip you bare!
And behold, you shall become an island, a most desolate place amidst the nations. No more shall anyone draw near to you, nor shall any attempt to pass through. For all shall keep their distance for fear of your punishment. Every traveler shall go roundabout, horrified at the smoke of your burning.

For thus says The Lord: I have set you apart for judgment! I have separated you out for death, for sorrow and for famine, until the fire of My wrath consumes you! For you have caused My beloved to depart from Me; you have turned them aside from The Way! You have caused them to trust in fables and to put their hope in lies and false visions, in worthless things![6] The Truth is not in you, and from The Life you are far removed![7]
You have pierced My heart with a hot iron! You have battered and bruised Me, and torn My flesh! My sadness fills the heavens like the unending blackness, My tears cover the earth like the oceans, because of you! My anger wells up within Me like a raging fire, on account of all these you have persecuted and murdered throughout your generations!
Indeed, the cup of My indignation overflows, on account of all you have done and are about to do, says The Lord. And still I sent to you many in My own name, that you might be saved from yourself. Yet you rejected them all, beating some and killing others, casting them out in your pompous rage. You will not turn, and so The Father has declared your end.

WOE TO THE CHURCH CALLED MOTHER!
WOE TO YOU AND YOUR APPOINTED LEADERS!
WOE TO YOU AND ALL YOUR “HOLY FATHERS”![8]...

WOE TO THE CHURCH CALLED ROMAN AND CATHOLIC!
WOE TO THE CHURCH FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES![9]...

For I have prepared a great fire, and behold, it is already kindled,
And you, along with all who cleave to you, shall surely be cast into it!"

And...

"And you, O church called Roman and Catholic, how We mourn for you! For you have been judged, and shall be left utterly desolate in the Day of The Lord’s Anger! You say you speak for Me and have The Messiah’s authority, yet I tell you, you have trampled upon the grave of The Resurrected One, making His sacrifice of no effect! WOE TO ALL WHO BLASPHEME THE SPIRIT! Throughout your generations you have not ceased from transgressing The Law by your traditions! Even to this day you embrace every foul and contemptible doctrine, reveling in those things I hate! Behold, you pollute the name of The Messiah by all you say and do, as you lead the people astray!
O unholy church of adulteries, mother of all fornications and lies, your destruction draws near! You have become Egypt! LET MY PEOPLE GO! Stop desecrating My Sabbaths! The seventh day is the Sabbath, which I had ordained from the beginning! Cease from your heresies, hold your tongue from your blasphemies, turn back from this wicked way you have chosen, AND REPENT, and I may yet have mercy upon you! For I am The Lord, and I DO NOT CHANGE!
Therefore heed My words and bow down, O unholy church of men! Hear the Word of The Lord, and be broken in pieces! For The Holy One is coming quickly and will take from you His own; He shall snatch them from your very breast! And no more shall My children receive nourishment from you! No more shall they be held captive under the veil of your deceptions! The light shall be taken from you, and you shall be left all alone, utterly estranged, on account of your unending adulteries and for the multitude of your whoredoms, which you performed in MY NAME!

Thus your fate lies with him who is coming, the wicked one who shall lead many into perdition and death. You shall bear him a son, a man who bears the number of his name, his prophet. Yet you will not be alone when desolations come; you and your enemy, Ishmael, shall receive recompense in full. For you both remain children of your father, the devil.

Behold, The Mighty and Strong One
Shall return and take from the earth
His own, and great recompense
Shall be poured out on all nations...

He shall come in power and great glory,
And Judgment shall sit...

Yet all who come out from among them,
And call upon the name of The Holy One of Israel,
In spirit and in truth, shall be delivered...

Says The Lord."

Turn away from her and don't look back! Worship God in spirit and truth, here is wisdom regarding the Son if you're willing to receive it..

"Thus for My wise and faithful servants,
All barriers are removed...

For their peace is in the knowing,
I AM WHO I AM, though they yet
Stand at the beginning, unable to see the end...

An heir of all I will reveal to them
When the fullness of time has come in...

Says The Lord."

On the Day of Judgment my hope will be in Jesus Christ my Savior.

What will you be doing on that Day when you stand accused of being a false prophet?

-CryptoLutheran

Bible Highlighter · Apr 18, 2021

Studyman said:
Now, now, I didn't assume anything, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page regarding that Moses didn't create Law. God did, and gave it to him. I won't go into divorce, only to say that I don't believe Moses created divorce Law, and the God of Abraham obeyed Moses.

Jer. 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Yes, I agree with Jeremiah 3:8 in that God can give a bill of divorce. Yet, Jesus said,

“He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:8).

So God did not originally come up with the divorce law that Jesus refers to. It was something that Moses permitted and God obviously allowed it because Moses was the emissary or representative of the Israelite people.

You said:
So then, God gave Moses Atonement laws for justification "by offering animal for sacrifice to the priest" as you correctly answered. This was before Jesus came. After Jesus Came, HE became our High Priest, Yes? And He shed HIS OWN Blood for justification. We are forgiven/justified by having Faith in HIS Blood, not the Blood of animals. Because by the Blood of animals is no flesh justified. These sacrifices were a "shadow" of the Lamb of God which would come "After those days".

Heb. 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Therefore;

Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man ( New High Priest) is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: (Justification)

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (As you said, "sins were forgiven by offering animal for sacrifice to the priest")

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

These atonement laws, that Abraham didn't have, were "ADDED" to God's Commandments because of Transgressions, "till the Seed (Messiah) should come". The Pharisees, that the Apostles were speaking to in the synagogue, didn't believe Jesus had become God's High Priest, so they were still relying on the Sacrificial "works of the Law" God gave Moses, for forgiveness.

They didn't know, or believed, that the Priesthood had changed as promised in Jer. 31.

It is a popular false doctrine taught in the religions of the land i was born into, that the "Work's of the Law" Paul is speaking to, were all the Laws God gave Moses. But the Scriptures teach Paul is speaking to the sacrificial "works" of the Law given by Covenant to Levi on Israel's behalf, "Till the Seed should come". Abraham was Justified/forgiven apart from the atonement Laws God gave Moses.

I think this is important Biblical Truth.

I agree, except for two things (unless I am misunderstanding you).

#1. When I say that the 613 Laws of Moses is no longer in existence as a whole or package deal I am referring to how the Old Covenant does not exist as a binding contract anymore. Granted, that said, I am not saying that certain individual laws (like the Moral Law, such as: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) have not carried over or repeated into the New Testament (or New Covenant). A moral Law is any Law that you instinctively know to do good without a written Law telling you about it. Romans 2:14 talks about how the Gentiles kept the Law without having the Law. I believe this to be the Moral Law. For obviously if we turn on the news, we see murder, theft, and other sins condemned (Which is a violation of loving your neighbor). But ceremonial laws, and judicial laws from the Old Law have not carried over into the New Covenant. Meaning, things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws have not continued on into the New Testament (Which began with Christ's death).

#2. When we speak of faith: I don't see at as one dimensional as many Christians see that word today. I see faith like a coin that naturally has two sides to it. On the first side of the coin of faith: Faith begins and lays the foundation with...

(a) A trust or belief in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (being saved by God's grace) (John 3:16).
Incorporated in being saved by God's grace can also include believing the gospel (Which is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation) (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). It can also include seeking forgiveness of one's sins with the Lord Jesus by way of prayer to Him (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14). It can also include receiving (inviting) Christ into our life (John 1:12) (Revelation 3:20). I say this because I believe a person can accept the message in believing in Jesus as their Savior in the last moments of their life before they die and be saved (without the other instructions in Scripture in being saved by God's grace). But the believer who lives out their faith, I believe they have a responsibility to accept these other aspects in being saved by God's grace. For to whom much is given, much is required.

Then on the second side of the coin of faith: The journey of faith continues with...

(b) The “work of faith” as mentioned by Paul in
1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 (or in being “faithful”).
For the “work of faith” is a part of the “faith.” Just as the “work of the Lord” would be a part of “the Lord.” This is why faith without works is dead (James 2:17). This is why we are justified by works (works faith) and not by faith alone (a belief alone) (James 2:24). For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).
Also, the word “faithful” used in the Bible implies an action. For example: 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” Obviously the Lord does not just have a belief alone on our behalf to help us. The Lord does something when He is faithful towards us. The same is true for us when we use the word “faithful.” Revelation 2:10 says, “...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”
Obviously this church has to do something as a part of being faithful unto death whereby God will give them the crown of life (eternal life / final salvation). In Hebrews 11, we also see that faith led holy men of God into action or in obedience to God. Furthermore, in shortened words, Romans 10:17 says “faith comes by hearing... the Word of God.” The Word of God is the Holy Bible. So the Bible is the faith. Everything written in our New Testament is of the faith. This would include any biblical righteous instruction (Which is a part of the New Testament faith). Yet, Christians today want to take the word “faith” and make it only about a belief alone in Jesus to be saved and nothing else. This runs contrary to looking at the whole counsel of God's Word on the topic of faith.

Anyways, I hope my reply was edifying in some way.
May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you greatly today.

ViaCrucis · Apr 18, 2021

BobRyan said:
It looks like you just "quoted you" and blamed someone "else" for what you said???... or did we miss something?

I quoted a poster who claimed that the Catholic Church banned the Bible in the first century, an idea so fabulously silly that I really didn't know how else to respond.

-CryptoLutheran

Saint Steven · Apr 18, 2021

chilehed said:
You're kidding, right? If you really think that then I doubt there's anything I can do to convince you otherwise.

To my knowledge Acts 20:7 and Revelation 1:10 is all we have for biblical evidence of Sunday worship in the earliest days of the Christian church. And these are both very thin evidence. You have to rely on other early church writings to even define "the Lord’s Day" that John spoke of. Much debate on both of these.

Since you behave as if you have tons more, can you share a few? Thanks. (or are you bluffing?)

Saint Steven said: ↑
What evidence do you have that this is a historical fact? You write, "... from the earliest days of the Christian Church..." There should be a biblical witness to this. Where is it? In my

Studyman · Apr 18, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, I agree with Jeremiah 3:8 in that God can give a bill of divorce. Yet, Jesus said,

“He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:8).

So God did not originally come up with the divorce law that Jesus refers to. It was something that Moses permitted and God obviously allowed it because Moses was the emissary or representative of the Israelite people.

I agree, except for two things (unless I am misunderstanding you).

#1. When I say that the 613 Laws of Moses is no longer in existence as a whole or package deal I am referring to how the Old Covenant does not exist as a binding contract anymore.

First, I hear this "613" law doctrine and I have to tell you Brother, it is completely false. God never gave "even one person" He rescued from the bondage of sin and deception from Egypt, "613" Laws to keep. This myth, rather, this false preaching, is designed to make God out as an unjust, and unfair God. It is horrible in my view to say such things about God that are simply false. I know you mean no malice, you are just repeating what you are taught. But Brother, it is simply not true.

Secondly, according to the Scriptures, it was the Priesthood that changed, not God's Law. I hear this all the time, and can not find in God's Definition of HIS New Covenant where HIS Law is affected at all. According to HIM, the Covenant HE changed was the one HE made after Israel broke the Covenant He gave them when they came out of Egypt.

Ex. 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jeremiah speaks to this as well.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The Covenant God made with Levi for Atonement you mentioned that was in force before Jesus came, is the Covenant that changed. It was the 1st Covenant God made Specifically on Israel's behalf. The Covenant HE gave Israel when they came out of Egypt, was the one HE gave Abraham, the one they broke.

Heb. 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The Covenant that changed was the "ADDED" covenant of atonement Abraham did not have. God's Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and Laws were not changed, at least according to the God who created His New Covenant.

I know this isn't taught, but as a Brother, I wanted to make it known to you. It was a tough pill for me to swallow 30 years ago when I started studying HIS Word on my own as instructed.

I hope you might also consider the Separation God makes between the Priesthood, and His Laws.

Thanks for the opportunity to share this with you.

With His Love, SM.

Nathan@work · Apr 18, 2021

Studyman said:
First, I hear this "613" law doctrine and I have to tell you Brother, it is completely false. God never gave "even one person" He rescued from the bondage of sin and deception from Egypt, "613" Laws to keep. This myth, rather, this false preaching, is designed to make God out as an unjust, and unfair God. It is horrible in my view to say such things about God that are simply false. I know you mean no malice, you are just repeating what you are taught. But Brother, it is simply not true.

Secondly, according to the Scriptures, it was the Priesthood that changed, not God's Law. I hear this all the time, and can not find in God's Definition of HIS New Covenant where HIS Law is affected at all. According to HIM, the Covenant HE changed was the one HE made after Israel broke the Covenant He gave them when they came out of Egypt.

Ex. 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jeremiah speaks to this as well.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The Covenant God made with Levi for Atonement you mentioned that was in force before Jesus came, is the Covenant that changed. It was the 1st Covenant God made Specifically on Israel's behalf. The Covenant HE gave Israel when they came out of Egypt, was the one HE gave Abraham, the one they broke.

Heb. 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The Covenant that changed was the "ADDED" covenant of atonement Abraham did not have. God's Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and Laws were not changed, at least according to the God who created His New Covenant.

I know this isn't taught, but as a Brother, I wanted to make it known to you. It was a tough pill for me to swallow 30 years ago when I started studying HIS Word on my own as instructed.

I hope you might also consider the Separation God makes between the Priesthood, and His Laws.

Thanks for the opportunity to share this with you.

With His Love, SM.

There is a difference in the covenant. Old versus New.

Gods laws have not changed, how they are applied/kept have.

Galatians 4 gives us a very clear example of this.

I would personally read the whole book of Galatians just to maintain good context. It doesn’t take long to read. Well worth it.

Nathan@work · Apr 18, 2021

So let me ask you all this.

Is it unloving to not observe the weekly Sabbath in the manner that Israel did?

Saint Steven · Apr 18, 2021

Nathan@work said:
So let me ask you all this.

Is it unloving to not observe the weekly Sabbath in the manner that Israel did?

What "manner" was that? Do you even know?

Bible Highlighter · Apr 18, 2021

Studyman said:
First, I hear this "613" law doctrine and I have to tell you Brother, it is completely false. God never gave "even one person" He rescued from the bondage of sin and deception from Egypt, "613" Laws to keep. This myth, rather, this false preaching, is designed to make God out as an unjust, and unfair God. It is horrible in my view to say such things about God that are simply false. I know you mean no malice, you are just repeating what you are taught. But Brother, it is simply not true.

Secondly, according to the Scriptures, it was the Priesthood that changed, not God's Law. I hear this all the time, and can not find in God's Definition of HIS New Covenant where HIS Law is affected at all. According to HIM, the Covenant HE changed was the one HE made after Israel broke the Covenant He gave them when they came out of Egypt.

Ex. 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Jeremiah speaks to this as well.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The Covenant God made with Levi for Atonement you mentioned that was in force before Jesus came, is the Covenant that changed. It was the 1st Covenant God made Specifically on Israel's behalf. The Covenant HE gave Israel when they came out of Egypt, was the one HE gave Abraham, the one they broke.

Heb. 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The Covenant that changed was the "ADDED" covenant of atonement Abraham did not have. God's Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and Laws were not changed, at least according to the God who created His New Covenant.

I know this isn't taught, but as a Brother, I wanted to make it known to you. It was a tough pill for me to swallow 30 years ago when I started studying HIS Word on my own as instructed.

I hope you might also consider the Separation God makes between the Priesthood, and His Laws.

Thanks for the opportunity to share this with you.

With His Love, SM.

You said, I quote:

“God's Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and Laws were not changed,”

Yet, my Bible says...

“For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity a change also of the law.” (Hebrews 7:12).

I am going with my Bible and not what you are saying, my friend.

Have a good evening, and may God bless you (even if we disagree on the Scriptures).

Bible Highlighter · Apr 18, 2021

Nathan@work said:
There is a difference in the covenant. Old versus New.

Gods laws have not changed, how they are applied/kept have.

Galatians 4 gives us a very clear example of this.

I would personally read the whole book of Galatians just to maintain good context. It doesn’t take long to read. Well worth it.

Hebrews 7:12 says plainly that the Law has changed.

Der Alte · Apr 18, 2021

Nathan@work said:
So let me ask you all this.
Is it unloving to not observe the weekly Sabbath in the manner that Israel did?

Not if we respectively say "I respect your right to worship on the day that you choose and I will choose the day that I worship on and neither of us will say that the other is [fill in your adjective(s) of choice]."

SabbathBlessings · Apr 18, 2021

Der Alte said:
Not if we respectively say "I respect your right to worship on the day that you choose and I will choose the day that I worship on and neither of us will say that the other is [fill in your adjective(s) of choice]."

It’s more about our loyalty to God by worshiping Him on the day He choose instead of the day choose by man. When we disregard the 4th commandment we are disregarding what He commanded each of us. When we obey, we are allowing God to be God and its how we show Him our love.

Exodus 20:8. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

God bless

Nathan@work · Apr 18, 2021

imge said:
It’s more about our loyalty to God by worshiping Him on the day He choose instead of the day choose by man. When we disregard the 4th commandment we are disregarding what He commanded each of us. When we obey, we are allowing God to be God and its how we show Him our love.

Exodus 20:8. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

God bless

The Sabbath day is the the seventh day of creation.

Can it only be remembered on the seventh day of the week?

Saint Steven · Apr 18, 2021

imge said:
When we disregard the 4th commandment we are disregarding what He commanded each of us.

The Sabbath was given to the Israelites alone. No one else. For anyone else to "keep" the Sabbath is in essence spiritual theft.

Saint Steven · Apr 18, 2021

Nathan@work said:
The Sabbath day is the the seventh day of creation.

Can it only be remembered on the seventh day of the week?

The Sabbath points to creation. Creation does not point to the Sabbath.

Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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