Saturday and Sunday

[bugkiller]

The yoke of the influencers included all their mountain of oral traditions for how to law, which is what they were objecting to.


When employer hires a new employee, they don't start by teaching them up front everything that they will ever need to know about how to do their job, but rather they start with the basics with the understanding that they will learn how to do the rest on the job. In the same way, new Gentiles coming to faith would have been unfamiliar with all of the laws in the Torah, so to not to make things too difficult for them, they started with the basics, which Paul excuses in verse 21 by saying that they would continue to learn about how to keep the law every Sabbath in the synagogues.



If you think Gentiles were only supposed to keep those four laws, then that would exclude the teachings of Jesus, as well as other teachings in the NT, but if you say that this is obviously not an exhaustive list and that other laws were included, then I'd agree with you.

There's not a single shred of evidence in Acts 15 the debate and issues were about the oral law. The law of Moses isn't oral law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

He is agreeing that they did in fact meet on a Sunday, just not the Sunday morning like we do now.

Anything to get rid of worshipping on Sunday.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I do agree we should worship God everyday, but in scriptures, he did set one day apart from the others and made it holy and a day of rest. We kinda do that here in america as many banks, car dealerships and other businesses are closed on Sunday.

In this day and age Im not even really sure if God cares about the whole Saturday vs Sunday debate the way we do as humans. I could be 100% wrong and the Sabbath 100% still matters and we should be keeping it, but one thing ive always wondered, if the Sabbath was so important, why would God even allowed it to be changed by the RCC and not send out a punishment or curse for doing so to the point where they would not have changed it and just left things as is.

Only for the Jews (Israel). That covenant is no longer in effect. LK 16:16 and Gal 3:19. Besides that we're delivered from the law according to Rom 7:6.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I disagree. "Break bread" is a euphemism for communion. It makes no sense to say they are devoted to Havdalah.

• Acts 2:24 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer
• 1 Corinthians 10:16 When we bless the cup at the Lord's Table, aren't we sharing in the blood of Christ? And when we break the bread, aren't we sharing in the body of Christ?

Hey wad ya know, I can agree.

bygkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Indeed, but God bless the 7th day and declared it holy, so it is a special day of worship.

Only for Israel.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Acts 15 is not talking doing a way with the Law of Moses, but what additional requirement are going to be placed on the believer so as to not offend their Jewish hosts.

No they weren't adding to the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

This is such a silly debate.
Anyone who can read knows that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week.
God never changed it, and He never gave anyone else the authority to change it either.
I seriously have to wonder...is this really about what day we ought to go to church? Because that really shouldn't matter so much that people fight about it.
Or....

Or is it really about closing businesses on the real Sabbath?

Is it a matter of worship?

Or, is it something more sinister. Is it about money...

I never looked at it that way before this angle was brought to my attention in another context.

No its about converting Christians.

bugkiller

 

[TheBarrd]

Acts 15 appears to be all about a hot debate as to whether or not to require new Gentile believers to be circumcised.
Now, most grown men I know would have a hearty objection to enduring such a procedure...and especially as it was done at that time...i.e.: no anesthetic.
I'm a woman, and the thought makes me clap my knees tight together...

 

[TheBarrd]

No its about converting Christians.

bugkiller

Converting Christians to what?

 

[Meowzltov]

one problem with this, In 636 Sabbath was done away with at the council of Laodecia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Laodicea

The council of Laodicea was merely a regional synod. It does not establish dogma the way an ecumenical council does. In fact, one synod can correct the mistakes of another synod.

 

[Meowzltov]

I followed you arrows back to you post and did not find a response.

Then here it is for you. Please read it carefully and don't plague me with more questions until you deal with what I've already said.

They were already observing it because of the Judaizers. But the council released them from the requirement.

• Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke
• Acts 15:19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
• Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood
• Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

So not only are they released from the 613, but no where in the letter written to them does it specifically mention that they are to keep the Sabbath, and states that these requirements are the only ones.

 

[Meowzltov]

Hey wad ya know, I can agree.

Well Hallelujah and pass the popcorn.

 

[SAAN]

Anything to get rid of worshipping on Sunday.

bugkiller

This comment makes utterly no sense, if you look at what was said and what I responded.

If I clearly said Im not a Sabbatrain and go to church on Sunday myself, why would I be making statement trying to get rid of Sunday worship?

Sunday worship is not a sin because there is no command forbidding coming together to worship on Sunday. I clearly stated the context of the verse Acts 20:7, in that Paul did NOT meet with the others on a Sunday morning to break bread, the way modern Christian teaches he does, but rather in fact was after the sun went down Saturday night, but it was still on a Sunday that they met since a new day started when the sun went down and he spoke to them from when they met up until midnight.

 

[BobRyan]

While the Catholic church changed the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday, it didn't change the Sabbath to Sunday. Rather, Sunday is considered the Lord's day, when Christians meet to break bread. In the Catholic church, Catholics don't actually keep Sabbath in the Jewish sense, refraining from Labor (although nothing prohibits this either). But at any rate, if you go to New Advent, the Catholic encyclopedia, and look up Sabbath, this is what you will find:

"Sabbath - The seventh day of the week among the Hebrews, the day being counted from sunset to sunset, that is, from Friday evening to Saturday evening"​

Interesting perspective --

Here is another -

I think some will see that Leo Trese's point about " no Bible text for this change" holds up to a close review of scripture.

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. ...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church


Looks like - same subject same question same answer as
3 minutes ago #167
So then one or two answers found there may apply here.

 

[BobRyan]

They were already observing it because of the Judaizers. But the council released them from the requirement.

• Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke
• Acts 15:19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
• Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood
• Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

So not only are they released from the 613, but no where in the letter written to them does it specifically mention that they are to keep the Sabbath, and states that these requirements are the only ones.

Nothing is said in Acts 15 about "Love God with all your heart" -- yet Christ insists on it in Matt 22... Is the NT church in Acts 15 acting in opposition to Christ - or are they really thinking that the Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" Commandment of God is important for NT saints?

"What matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

 

[Meowzltov]

Interesting perspective --

Here is another -

I think some will see that Leo Trese's point about " no Bible text for this change" holds up to a close review of scripture.

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. ...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church


Looks like - same subject same question same answer as
3 minutes ago #167
So then one or two answers found there may apply here.

Actually nothing is said in the Bible AT ALL about which day of the week the Lord's Day is. For the answer to that you have to go to the Early Church Fathers, and none of them will tell you it is the Sabbath.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nothing is said in Acts 15 about "Love God with all your heart" -- yet Christ insists on it in Matt 22... Is the NT church in Acts 15 acting in opposition to Christ - or are they really thinking that the Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" Commandment of God is important for NT saints?

Loving God with all your heart is not specific. It can include for Jews the keeping of the Sabbath. But for Gentiles, it is expressed in ways other than keeping the Sabbath. Nothing about Loving God has anything to do with the Council of Jerusalem or the quotes I gave.

 

[BobRyan]

They were already observing it because of the Judaizers. But the council released them from the requirement.

• Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke
• Acts 15:19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
• Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood
• Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

So not only are they released from the 613, but no where in the letter written to them does it specifically mention that they are to keep the Sabbath, and states that these requirements are the only ones.

Nothing is said in Acts 15 about "Love God with all your heart" -- yet Christ insists on it in Matt 22... Is the NT church in Acts 15 acting in opposition to Christ - or are they really thinking that the Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" Commandment of God is important for NT saints?

"What matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

Loving God with all your heart is not specific. It can include for Jews the keeping of the Sabbath. But for Gentiles, it is expressed in ways other than keeping the Sabbath. Nothing about Loving God has anything to do with the Council of Jerusalem or the quotes I gave.

The point was that Acts 15 is obviously not an exhaustive list of what is applicable to gentiles.

Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 are good examples of what is applicable to gentiles by everyone's standards - and yet by everyone's standards - is not mentioned in Acts 15. The Acts 15 subject was not "let's write a Bible for gentiles" as if scripture had just been tossed out the window and a new OT was needed.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 6819194"]Interesting perspective --

Here is another -

I think some will see that Leo Trese's point about " no Bible text for this change" holds up to a close review of scripture.

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day that was the law as God gave it 'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday. ...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church


Looks like - same subject same question same answer as
3 minutes ago #167
So then one or two answers found there may apply here.
[/QUOTE]

Actually nothing is said in the Bible AT ALL about which day of the week the Lord's Day is. For the answer to that you have to go to the Early Church Fathers, and none of them will tell you it is the Sabbath.

Mark 2:27 "the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath"

Is 58:14 The Sabbath is "the Holy Day of the Lord"

Other than that - no assignment of the term at all as you point out.

 

[SAAN]

Actually nothing is said in the Bible AT ALL about which day of the week the Lord's Day is. For the answer to that you have to go to the Early Church Fathers, and none of them will tell you it is the Sabbath.

Ive always said that as well, but Jesus did say he is Lord of the Sabbath, so I would say the Lord's Day would be Saturday over Sunday using scriptures. The 1st century Christian writings will claim them Sunday is the Lords Day, but there is also alot of suspect behavior of first century church fathers of being very anti Jewish as well, so sometimes their claims could have a bias to them.