Saturday and Sunday

[Meowzltov]

Anyhow, I wonder if you realize...it was the Catholic church that changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?

While the Catholic church changed the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday, it didn't change the Sabbath to Sunday. Rather, Sunday is considered the Lord's day, when Christians meet to break bread. In the Catholic church, Catholics don't actually keep Sabbath in the Jewish sense, refraining from Labor (although nothing prohibits this either). But at any rate, if you go to New Advent, the Catholic encyclopedia, and look up Sabbath, this is what you will find:

"Sabbath - The seventh day of the week among the Hebrews, the day being counted from sunset to sunset, that is, from Friday evening to Saturday evening"​

 

[TheBarrd]

There is no scriptural authority to change the day of worship, either.

 

[Meowzltov]

There is no scriptural authority to change the day of worship, either.

The apostles had authority.

 

[TheBarrd]

The apostles had authority.

First of all, I think that is an overstatement.
Second, it was not the apostles who officially changed it.

 

[Meowzltov]

Second, it was not the apostles who officially changed it.

The apostles met on Sunday to break bread (Acts 20). Gentiles were released from Sabbath observance. (Acts 15). Sounds pretty official to me.

 

[SAAN]

Lets look at Acts 20 in Context

Acts 20:5-12 (NKJV)
5 These men, going ahead, waited for us at Troas. 6 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days.

Ministering at Troas
7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together. 9 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing himsaid, “Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him.” 11 Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till daybreak, he departed. 12 And they brought the young man in alive, and they were not a little comforted.

The fact that they mentioned the Days of Unleavened Bread years after Jesus died shows they were still observing the Feast Days, so if they were still observing those, its more than likely a good chance they were observing the Sabbath as well.

Now lets address verse 7, Paul got together with the disciples on the 1st day of the week to bread break, but since he was ready to depart the next day, its clear this meeting was right after the sun went down Saturday since a new day started once the sun went down as to why his message lasted until midnight.
This makes much more sense since Paul speaking from 6-7pm-ish, when the sun went down until midnight is waaaay more believable than Paul meeting early on a Sunday morning and his his message being 12-15 hours until midnight.

So Paul met right after the sun went down Saturday night, which is now Sunday(first day of the week), spoke with the disciples until midnight (message until midnight), and departed on Sunday morning (ready to depart the next day).


Acts chapter 15 no where released the gentiles from anything, it just gives them some basics things to refrain from to get started and they will learn more as they go along. No different than learning more as you go along at your job when you just begin.

Acts 15:21 (NKJV)
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

This is another clear indication that the Sabbath was still being kept and Acts 20 shows it was still being kept was well, since they met right after the Sabbath was over.

 

[Meowzltov]

Now lets address verse 7, Paul got together with the disciples on the 1st day of the week to bread break, but since he was ready to depart the next day, its clear this meeting was right after the sun went down Saturday since a new day started once the sun went down as to why his message lasted until midnight.
This makes much more sense since Paul speaking from 6-7pm-ish, when the sun went down until midnight is waaaay more believable than Paul meeting early on a Sunday morning and his his message being 12-15 hours until midnight.

So Paul met right after the sun went down Saturday night, which is now Sunday(first day of the week), spoke with the disciples until midnight (message until midnight), and departed on Sunday morning (ready to depart the next day).
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Paul met with them on Sunday, when they broke bread, and preached until after midnight on Monday morning. Any other interpretation is not Scriptural.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

There is no scriptural authority to change the day of worship, either.

In this discussion the word "change" is the wrong word to use. In the research I have done on this topic, the evidence point to "implementation" NOT CHANGE. The Lord's day is rooted in the Festivals, namely first fruits and Pentecost. The purpose of the Lord's day was not replacement but distinction. How do you define the difference between Jew and Christian. The problem arose after the Jews rioted in Rome and burned down a large section of the Jews quarter. The Roman came in to stop the rioting and kicked out all the jews out of Rome, Apollo & Prycilla were amoung them. Upon investigation the Romans found that it was over some guy named "Chrestus" a Latin mispronunciation of Christ. In order to stop the rioting the Romans instead that their be a way to tell the keep the peace and tell difference between the Jews and Christians, thus the Lord's day was created. The early Christian did not see the Lord's day as replacing the Sabbath, rather a festival, for the Sabbath still had prophetic meaning, namely the promise of the 1000 years of peace upon the earth when Christ would come to rule and reign. The Lord's day held this position until Sylvester I (314-335) transferred the "solemnity " of the Sabbath to Sunday. Both Sabbath and the Lord's day were kept, with favor and rest being encourage and endorsed, until 363 at the Council of Laodciea where it was banned out right.

 

[SAAN]

Paul met with them on Sunday, when they broke bread, and preached until after midnight on Monday morning. Any other interpretation is not Scriptural.

I agree he met with them on Sunday, but he met with them right after the sun went down on Saturday night, which would have been considered Sunday, the 1st day of the week, since a new day started as the sun went down. That is the only thing that could make sense in him talking to them from 6 or 7pm until midnight, as to why they even had lamps out in the first place. If it were Sunday morning and broad daylight they wouldn't need lamps, if someone is sitting on a windows ledge, as they would have light from the sun.

If Paul did has you said and met with them Sunday morning, you are saying Paul's message with them went on for almost 12-15 hours, which is very unrealistic anyway you look at it. It just doesn't add up for Paul to meet with them on Sunday morning, have a 12-15 hour message, and then leave Monday morning.

Him meeting with them Sunday after the sun went down Saturday night, give a message and break break until midnight, and leave the day day on Sunday morning makes actual sense.

Sunday was a regular work day back then, so there was nothing stopping him from leaving on Sunday morning.

 

[Meowzltov]

I agree he met with them on Sunday, but he met with them right after the sun went down on Saturday night, which would have been considered Sunday, the 1st day of the week, since a new day started as the sun went down.

If you want to say it was after sundown, that's fine by me. Most Catholic parishes have a "Saturday Vigil Mass" late on Saturday which counts for Sunday obligation. In the same manner, the Christmas eve Mass counts for Christmas, the Easter Vigil Mass counts for Easter, and so on. Obviously this is a holdover from counting the day's beginning from sunset the day before.

 

[Frogster]

I pick wednesday, paul said in Rom 14:5, be convinced in your own mind, as he in that verses, did not care about Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Meowzltov]

I pick wednesday, paul said in Rom 14:5, be convinced in your own mind, as he in that verses, did not care about Saturday or Sunday.

Except we know the frogster is speaking tongue in cheek.

 

[Frogster]

Except we know the frogster is speaking tongue in cheek.

uh uh..I like to alternate between wednesday, and thursday!

 

[SAAN]

I pick wednesday, paul said in Rom 14:5, be convinced in your own mind, as he in that verses, did not care about Saturday or Sunday.

Nice out of context there, considering that chapter was talking about fasting and whether to eat meat or not, and to not judge one another over that issue.

 

[SAAN]

uh uh..I like to alternate between wednesday, and thursday!

While im not a Sabbatarian, can you show one verse (IN CONTEXT) where Jesus himself said the Sabbath would be abolished after his death?

Also explain Acts 15:21 when they said the gentile will learn as they go along each Sabbath.
Acts 15:20-21(KJV)
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[Soyeong]

The apostles had authority.

Authority was given to interpret the commands of God, but no authority was given to add to, subtract from, or change them. They could not countermand God.

 

[Soyeong]

The apostles met on Sunday to break bread (Acts 20). Gentiles were released from Sabbath observance. (Acts 15). Sounds pretty official to me.

SAAN is right about them meeting on what we would call Saturday night and what they would call Sunday. The first interval between Sabbaths was the Havdalah service done immediately following the Sabbath. It signifies the end of the Sabbath and the start of the workweek. Even if they met on what we would consider to be Sunday morning, that does not signify that they started a specific tradition for doing that.

Acts 15 says nothing about Gentiles being released from Sabbath observance, but rather 15:21 implies that they were already observing it.

 

[Meowzltov]

Authority was given to interpret the commands of God, but no authority was given to add to, subtract from, or change them. They could not countermand God.

It was already scripture that the 613 were given to Israel and its converts (who were then Israel) and not to the Gentiles. So they changed nothing.

 

[Meowzltov]

SAAN is right about them meeting on what we would call Saturday night and what they would call Sunday

It still wouldn't have been on the Sabbath, even if you accept his view. The eucharist would have been observed on the first day of the week.

 

[Meowzltov]

Acts 15 says nothing about Gentiles being released from Sabbath observance, but rather 15:21 implies that they were already observing it.

They were already observing it because of the Judaizers. But the council released them from the requirement.

• Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke
• Acts 15:19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
• Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood
• Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

So not only are they released from the 613, but no where in the letter written to them does it specifically mention that they are to keep the Sabbath, and states that these requirements are the only ones.