Satan's offer:

[MbiaJc]

Did\does Satin have the power and authority to give Jesus what he offered Him. When he took Him up on the mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world. And offered them to Jesus if He would only worship him.

And what kingdoms did he show Jesus?

5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

8And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

I would be interested in what you think. Thanks in advance

 

[Forest]

I would be interested in what you think. Thanks in advance

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Fat]

Did\does Satin have the power and authority to give Jesus what he offered Him. When he took Him up on the mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world. And offered them to Jesus if He would only worship him.

And what kingdoms did he show Jesus?

5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

8And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

I would be interested in what you think. Thanks in advance

He could not touch, neither Job's person, nor any of his substance, without permission from God.

 

[SonOfThunder]

He could not touch, neither Job's person, nor any of his substance, without permission from God.

This shows that Satan had no right to even claim such a thing as ALL POWER
was already his.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Satan was a liar as shown previously.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it



fancy thinking you can lie to Jesus in the first place?


James

 

[PapaLandShark]

Hmmmm...is there any doubt that the Adversary has power over the earth? Limited yes...but power still. Could he have given those Kingdoms? Probably...otherwise Jesus would have had a different response. It was a true temptation. But Jesus was not simply a man.

I often wonder why Satan bothers when he has read the outcome. Blinded by pride I suppose.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hmmmm...is there any doubt that the Adversary has power over the earth? Limited yes...but power still. Could he have given those Kingdoms? Probably...otherwise Jesus would have had a different response. It was a true temptation. But Jesus was not simply a man.

I often wonder why Satan bothers when he has read the outcome. Blinded by pride I suppose.

You are so right santin had the power to give Jesus what he offered Him. For he rules over the kingdoms that have powers behind powerful influnces which is what he showed Jesus.

It is a mistake for one not to know what satin rules over. Don't ask for scripture references for this statment for it been so long since I studied this out I have lost my notes. At any rate that what I came up with in my study.

As we all know Satin can take all ungodlyness and make it look perfectly all right under the right conditions.

 

[MbiaJc]

He could not touch, neither Job's person, nor any of his substance, without permission from God.

Right but he could have had powerful influnces on Job, that would have been daming, had Job allowed him.

 

[Fat]

Right but he could have had powerful influnces on Job, that would have been daming, had Job allowed him.

Your question MbiaJc

"Did\does Satin have the power and authority to give Jesus what he offered Him. When he took Him up on the mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world. And offered them to Jesus if He would only worship him."

Luke 4:6And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

First of all we have learned from the beginning that when the devil temps us he has to lie because he has nothing to offer.

Gen3: 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit from the trees in the garden. 3 But about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God said, 'You must not eat it or touch it, or you will die. ' "

4 "No! You will not die," the serpent said to the woman.

Now back to your question we are talking about authority over the whole world. every kingdom

all the kingdoms of the world

Do you understand that the devil just told Christ that he had been given authority over the world. The devil basically said he was lord over the earth.

So let us see what authority this make believe god had:

Matthew 828-34 28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, there met him two possessed with demons, coming forth out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man could pass by that way. 29 And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30 Now there was afar off from them a herd of many swine feeding. 31 And the demons besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, send us away into the herd of swine. 32 And he said unto them, Go. And they came out, and went into the swine: and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep into the sea, and perished in the waters.

Who had the authority here, Christ had the authority. So how could the devil offer Him authority over the whole world when he did not even have authority over his own demons?

Matthew 28:16 But the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped [him]; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Fat

 

[mesue]

Genesis 3:1: ...Yea, hath God said, ...
Satan is a liar, and isn't it just like him to twist the truth ever so slighty to have us fall into temptation?

John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I don't know if Satan really has the power to give the Creator of this would that which He already owns.
Isaiah 37:16: O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

They are God's to give
Nehemiah 9:22: Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, ...

It is all His.
Haggai 2:8: The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I think Satan's offer showed an ignorance, or arrogance, on his part. Seems he really did not understand what Jesus was going to accomplish, and in accomplishing it - what He would gain.

I believe we cannot truly understand how Satan could offer all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus as they were his, or how Jesus could see it all from one mountain. But I am certain that Jesus saw that obedience to the Father gained more than what Satan was offering.

 

[Simon_Templar]

there are a couple of interesting points in this discussion.. first

It is Jesus destiny to rule all the kingdoms of this earth.. a destiny which will only be finaly completed in his second coming, as the angel says in revelation at the 7th trump, "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God and King." Once Jesus has all the kingdoms he will give deliver them up to his Father.

From scriptures we know that "the entire world is under the sway of the evil one" and that satan is "the god of this world" etc. Combining that with the idea that the kingdoms of this world do not become completely Jesus' until he returns, I think it is safe to say that satan currently controls the kingdoms of this world.

this creates an image very like the relationship between david and saul... Once david was annointed by samuel, saul's authority, in the eyes of God, was finished, he was no longer the annointed king of Israel. From the moment of his annointing David had the right and the authority to be the annointed king. However, the people of Israel continued to acknoledge saul as the king and david did not become king fully (despite being the rightful king) until the people of Israel acknoledged him as king.
Likewise.. right now Jesus has all authority, and he is the rightful king, but his kingship will not be complete until every knee bows and every tongue confesses.. until he sits in Jerusalem and the nations of the earth all come up to pay him homage.
In a way I think God orchestrated the story of saul and david to be an allegory of sorts (just as isaach and ishmael were used to create an allegory for the old and new covenants).

So when Satan made this offer to Jesus he was making a real offer, it was a real temptation. Undoubtedly it was twisted from the truth, as satan's words always are. But there was some truth in it otherwise it wouldn't have been tempting. Satan was essentially trying to offer Jesus a short cut to his destiny, and around the suffering necessary to achieve it (but only part of his destiny). Satan knew that Jesus was destined to rule all. He tried to get Jesus to loose sight of the true destiny of ruling all, by presenting him what satan deemed to be the most glorious and tempting part of the package. Satan desires self glorification and so he thought perhaps Jesus would as well.

 

[Wakeup2god]

Satan only has authority if we give it to him. By bowing down to satan Jesus would have in effect given him authority, therefor satan could have offered great chunks of that authority back to Jesus.

The same in our lives. When we open the door to sin we give the enemy a foothold and he can quickly gain authority in that area of our lives. That's why we have to check ourselves and put on our armour etc...

 

[Fat]

Satan only has authority if we give it to him. By bowing down to satan Jesus would have in effect given him authority, therefor satan could have offered great chunks of that authority back to Jesus.

The same in our lives. When we open the door to sin we give the enemy a foothold and he can quickly gain authority in that area of our lives. That's why we have to check ourselves and put on our armour etc...

Wakeup2god makes an excellent point here. If the devil had or has authority over the earth then why does he have to use lies and deceit to accomplish his goals? If he had authority over "all the kingdoms" he could just will it to be and it would be so.

Luke 10:17-24 17 The Seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name." 18 He said to them, "I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash. 19 Look, I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy; nothing will ever harm you. 20 However, don't rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." 21 In that same hour He rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and the learned and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, because this was Your good pleasure. 22 All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son desires to reveal Him." 23 Then turning to His disciples He said privately, "Blessed are the eyes that see the things you see! 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see the things you see, yet didn't see them; to hear the things you hear, yet didn't hear them."

Maybe one of you can explain this to this unwashed heathen.

Romans 13:

1 Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. 2 So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God's command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do good and you will have its approval. 4 For government is God's servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. 5 Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience. 6 And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God's public servants, continually attending to these tasks.

So if God give authority to the devil we must not resist the devil? Humm

 

[mesue]

If the devil had or has authority over the earth then why does he have to use lies and deceit to accomplish his goals? If he had authority over "all the kingdoms" he could just will it to be and it would be so.

Because Satan has head knowledge of the Bible and not heart knowledge.
He's not saved and does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling within him to teach him.
1Corinthians 2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Corinthians 2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Corinthians 2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Corinthians 2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Corinthians 2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Satan can only do what God allows Him to do. In Job, Satan only did the things he did to Job after God said:
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

 

[MrJim]

Surely Satan had the power-otherwise it wouldn't be a temptation...

 

[Fat]

Because Satan has head knowledge of the Bible and not heart knowledge.
He's not saved and does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling within him to teach him.
1Corinthians 2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Corinthians 2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Corinthians 2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Corinthians 2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Corinthians 2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Satan can only do what God allows Him to do. In Job, Satan only did the things he did to Job after God said:
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Let's back up a few verses:

7*On the contrary, we speak God's hidden wisdom in a mystery, which God predestined before the ages for our glory. 8*None of the rulers of this age knew it, for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Luke 4:6And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.


Yes the devil is lying again as he did to Eve, God did not give him authority over "all the kingdoms of the world."

 

[Fat]

Surely Satan had the power-otherwise it wouldn't be a temptation...

God limits the devils power, He does not give him authority over all the earth.
1*Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to humanity. God is faithful and He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation He will also provide a way of escape, so that you are able to bear it.

 

[mesue]

Yes the devil is lying again as he did to Eve, God did not give him authority over "all the kingdoms of the world."

Genesis 3:1: ...Yea, hath God said, ...

 

[MrJim]

God limits the devils power, He does not give him authority over all the earth.
1*Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to humanity. God is faithful and He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation He will also provide a way of escape, so that you are able to bear it.

So then Jesus wasn't really tempted. If scriptures say He was tempted like other men I had always thought this was the time. But if the offer wasn't good, then it wasn't a temptation.

 

[Fat]

So then Jesus wasn't really tempted. If scriptures say He was tempted like other men I had always thought this was the time. But if the offer wasn't good, then it wasn't a temptation.

Not so! Just because the availability of the devil to deliver has nothing to do with the temptation. Again I'll go back to the lie he told Eve that she would not die. God had told her that she would die and she knew that. In fact she repeated it back to the serpent. It comes right back to the point that humans are inherently evil. God offers eternal life to all but most choose death, ask yourself "why?"

Fat