Satan is defeated or not?

[CrystalDragon]

Interpreting is never permitted by YHWH.
HE states plainly HIS WORD,
and REVEALS it through Y'SHUA as HE SAYS :
"Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,".
Don't ever trust man's interpretation.
That is contrary to YHWH'S WORD.

The BIBLE has not said things concerning what you posted changed,
and what you posted was not (apparently) a change in anything.

Everyone though could look at the same Bible passage and come up with a different meaning. How is one to know which of those.views is God's true word if they all believe it is?

And the Bible may not have a verse that says "this has changed", but the verses and context themselves are indication enough.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Like this ? > John 10:9: “I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.”

if we take the Bible at face value.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think you showed anything yet,
in any words or context,
that changed.

And the Bible may not have a verse that says "this has changed", but the verses and context themselves are indication enough.

---------------------------------------------------

YHWH says HE will REVEAL TRUTH (and only TRUTH)
to HIS CHILDREN, (and ONLY to HIS CHILDREN).
As also
Y'SHUA said "MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE"
and
"you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" (not bind you, not confuse you, not put you in bondage to depending on men or religion or any such thing) ....

When YHWH REVEALS the TRUTH -
since the TRUTH NEVER CHANGES,
you can TRUST YHWH.
(not trust men).

Everyone though could look at the same Bible passage and come up with a different meaning. How is one to know which of those.views is God's true word if they all believe it is?

 

[Uber Genius]

Garden of Even related to Adam and Eve, as no precious stones were mentioned to be there.

We don't look for everything to match, they are different stories after all.

In order to get a fuller view of what the second temple Jew (523 BCE - 70 CE) would have thought we need to read things outside of scripture including the apocryphal writings, which will be easier for you than most evangelicals.

There are several second-temple accounts of Satan taking on the form of animals such as large birds. So him taking on the form of a serpent would not be a stretch at all for someone in Jesus' day.

I still said before about the serpent is correct if we take the Bible at face value.

Here is a good discussion the Nachash (Serpent) as it relates to the Genesis story by Hebrew scholar Dr. Michael Heiser

But I am not dogmatic about these references. Like our modern writing, authors can deploy literary devices with multiple meanings, figures of speech, and culture understandings that are pre-scientific and pre-medical with freedom of expression. And yet God gets the stories he wants to reveal the things he wants.

So I am much closer to how you approach the text then the average proof-texting evangelical (which I still am BTW).

 

[CrystalDragon]

I don't think you showed anything yet,
in any words or context,
that changed.
---------------------------------------------------

YHWH says HE will REVEAL TRUTH (and only TRUTH)
to HIS CHILDREN, (and ONLY to HIS CHILDREN).
As also
Y'SHUA said "MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE"
and
"you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free" (not bind you, not confuse you, not put you in bondage to depending on men or religion or any such thing) ....

When YHWH REVEALS the TRUTH -
since the TRUTH NEVER CHANGES,
you can TRUST YHWH.
(not trust men).

I don't think you get what I'm saying here. Many people consider themselves God's children, that God is telling them that this is his truth. But what if they Who each believe they are being told the truth by God come to different conclusions? How can we know which one of those is truly God's word?

I told you what had changed, and I can give you examples if you'd like.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When YHWH Y'SHUA Reveal TRUTH, that's it - there is no conclusion to come to. (for the Ecclesia - we just believe HIS WORD)
For others, they may wrongly change HIS WORD to mean something else than HE plainly says. That is what YHWH says not to do and not to listen to

But what if they Who each believe they are being told the truth by God come to different conclusions?

----------------------------------------------------
YHWH Y'SHUA Reveal the SIMPLE TRUTH - as to children - everything concerning SALVATION HEALING and HIS LIFE in this life and in the life to come.
YHWH Y'SHUA don't speak in riddles nor confusion to the Ecclesia
as Y'SHUA spoke in parables to the crowds (so they would not understand, as HE TOLD THE DISCIPLES).
HE REVEALS TRUTH, or it is not known, as HE SAYS.
TEST BY HIS WORD and always praying to YHWH in Y'SHUA'S NAME.
THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS TO DO - giving the BEREANS as a blessed and noted example.
Just simply trust YHWH, and DO AS HE SAYS, NOT as men say.

How can we know which one of those is truly God's word?

------------------------------------------------------
What you said was no change.
Perhaps what you mean is different so an example would possibly clear this up quicker.

I told you what had changed, and I can give you examples if you'd like.

 

[Michelangelo Goeloe]

Not everything accomplished in heaven has yet manifested on earth.

What do you mean by that exactly?

 

[Ken Behrens]

What do you mean by that exactly?

Jesus defeated Satan once and for all. But we are part of this defeat. God wants all of us, you and me included, to be able to stomp on Satan once and for all. Earth is waiting for us to catch up with Jesus in victory. That's why Jesus lives to make intercession for us. It's why we are being changed from glory to glory. But as long as we still sin, some of the victory is not showing up. This is why the victory is complete in heaven, but still in process on the earth.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Note that in the NT Epistles , about the life of the believers who overcame,
they were much much much more "successful" ,
at times anyway,
than anyone in the untied states has ever been, as far as known.

The secret "why" is also IN SCRIPTURE, and TRUE TODAY as THEN.

 

[miknik5]

True, but what I meant is that Satan didn't do any sort of "deception to deceive God" or any of that. He went into Heaven, questioned if Job just worshiped God because Job was blessed, and God gave Satan permission to do terrible things to him.

Again, different from the view of Satan in the NT.

GOD removed "THE HEDGE" temporarily

 

[CrystalDragon]

GOD removed "THE HEDGE" temporarily

What's that supposed to mean? I'm a bit confused by your wording there.

 

[JacksBratt]

Do

The Bible says in the letter of Colossians 2:15 that satan is defeated. But how is he still capable attacking the church, since he is defeated?

In this video it looks like satan is still very active even tho' he is defeated... How can that be?

Do you play sports? Do you cheer for a team? Have you ever seen a competition where the one side has clearly defeated the other side, yet the defeated team continues to fight for an unattainable victory?

This is what is happening. Satan has lost. He is well aware of it. However, he hates humans. He hates us because we are so much lower and weaker than he and his followers, yet God's whole plan is to have us fellowship with Him. To have a relationship with Him.

Satan's first plan was to make it impossible for God to have this relationship. He did this by tempting us to sin and breaking the connection that Adam and Eve had and all humans were supposed to have. Mission Accomplished.

Second, Satan saw that Christ was going to provide salvation by becoming human and dying on the cross. He tried to foil this plan by 1/ corrupting the human bloodline. This failed as Noah and his family came through the flood and preserved the pure human line. 2/ Ruining the royal line of David that scripture promised the Messiah would be from. He did this by The curse of Jeconiah's line. God worked around this.
3/ By tempting Christ to sin. 4/ Having Jesus die, before the cross by the brutal treatment of the Romans, or have His bones broken on the cross. Satan tried to have events contradict the prophesies that he knew were speaking of Christ... Fail, Fail Fail.

Third. Since Christ has overcome and can offer us salvation, Satan has only one card left....... keep us from accepting Christs gift of salvation. The more humans he can deceive and trick and convince that Jesus was not the messiah, God is not real, Satan is not real, heaven and hell are not real.... the better. The more humans souls that he can guide to a life of sin and an eternity outside the presence of God, the happier he is...He wants you to go to Hell. He wants you to spend eternity as a damned soul. He wants God to have less and less humans to fellowship with.

That is why he keeps doing what he is doing. He is defeated yet can still make sure that more human souls are lost.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What's that supposed to mean? I'm a bit confused by your wording there.

Satan is still working the same today as he did concerning Job,
Y'SHUA, Adam, Havah, Job, Peter, Paul, Ananias and Saphira.

MANY MULTITUDES are deceived today, willingly and willfully,
by Satan, in and out of all religions, remaining unsaved, and unwilling to seek YHWH , YHWH'S KINGDOM, or Y'SHUA (YHWH'S SALVATION) TODAY.

 

[Winken]

Good grief, folks. A question is asked in the OP and we go on and on and on debating the answer! How can anyone, especially someone new to CF, hope to learn anything, or even come close to the answer?

PUL-EEEZE!!! Give these forums a break! If none have an answer provided Biblically (via the interpretation and application of the Holy Spirit) find something else to do!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Internet IS NOT the place to learn TRUTH.

If someone thinks they will,
perhaps,
by a miracle of YHWH'S GRACE,
they might.
But it is not likely.

Good grief, folks. A question is asked in the OP and we go on and on and on debating the answer! How can anyone, especially someone new to CF, hope to learn anything, or even come close to the answer?

 

[thesunisout]

The Bible says in the letter of Colossians 2:15 that satan is defeated. But how is he still capable attacking the church, since he is defeated?

In this video it looks like satan is still very active even tho' he is defeated... How can that be?

Satan is defeated; Jesus took the keys of death and hell away from him. He is also judged, he will be thrown into the lake of fire one day. Until then, God is still allowing him to act in this world until judgment day.

 

[Colter]

The Bible says in the letter of Colossians 2:15 that satan is defeated. But how is he still capable attacking the church, since he is defeated?

In this video it looks like satan is still very active even tho' he is defeated... How can that be?

That wasn't much of a video, it was an advertisement!

Lucifer, Satan and the other rebel commanders were defeated. They are gone, neutered and awaiting trial if they haven't been completely destroyed already. Only the meme of rebellion remains.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Only the meme of rebellion remains.

And the whole world follows. They refuse to repent, it is written.

 

[sdowney717]

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that Satan wasn't directly seen as a deceived and tempter of ultimate evil (I mean where it was EXPLICITLY described as him) until the New Testament?

It said that God sent lying spirits and deception, not Satan.

"Lucifer/Morning Star" doesn't even refer to Satan, it refers to a Babylonian king if you actually read Isaiah 14 in complete context and not just cherry-pick verses 12-15. Morning Star just was used for someone in a position of great power—the king of Babylon, the Pharaoh, Jesus, all of whom were described with that term.

Satan in Job was like a prosecuting attorney, and only did what God allowed him to do.

The serpent in the garden was just described as being a crafty serpent, that's it. If it was Satan disguised as the snake, how is "upon your belly you shall crawl" a punishment that would make any sense if Satan could just shapeshift? It only makes sense of the serpent was just as Genesis describes—the craftiest of all the beasts of the field the Lord God had made (which probably had legs).

It's only really in the New Testament where we begin to see this divide of all the good traits being from God, and evil coming from Satan, a change from how before God was responsible for everything.

We can know that the serpent was Satan from verses such as this.
This phrase 'Serpent of old' ties him to the earliest time as the same serpent at the creation in the garden.

Revelation 20:2
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[JacksBratt]

That wasn't much of a video, it was an advertisement!

Lucifer, Satan and the other rebel commanders were defeated. They are gone, neutered and awaiting trial if they haven't been completely destroyed already. Only the meme of rebellion remains.

You have stated this before.

Any scripture that I have read, indicates that Satan is not bound until the beginning of the millennial age and is loosed for a short time at the end.

You and I have argued about this before.