Sanctification - Justification - Redemption

[JIMINZ]

I spoke to this in #36 thread above

It is irrelevant if you spoke to this in #36 because, your conclusions are still wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's interesting as neither Luther nor Calvin spoke or read English.

They didn’t have anything to do with the translation the KJV they did however create the reformed theology that William Tyndale based his Geneva bible on which was then used in the creation of the KJV in England in the early 17th century.

 

[redleghunter]

They didn’t have anything to do with the translation the KJV they did however create the reformed theology that William Tyndale based his Geneva bible on which was then used in the creation of the KJV in England in the early 17th century.

What’s wrong with that?

 

[BNR32FAN]

What’s wrong with that?

Reformed theology has always been rejected by the ecumenical council. It’s not what the apostles taught.

 

[redleghunter]

Reformed theology has always been rejected by the ecumenical council. It’s not what the apostles taught.

Which ecumenical council?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Which ecumenical council?

Orthodox

 

[redleghunter]

Orthodox

Which one?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Which one?

The Eastern Orthodox. But technically you could say that all the apostolic churches rejected reformed theology. Not one of them ever supported it.

 

[redleghunter]

The Eastern Orthodox. But technically you could say that all the apostolic churches rejected reformed theology. Not one of them ever supported it.

Once again...which ecumenical council rejected the Biblical doctrines of Grace?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Once again...which ecumenical council rejected the Biblical doctrines of Grace?

We’re talking about reformed theology not Grace. We’re talking about salvation by faith without works and eternal security as well as predestination

 

[redleghunter]

We’re talking about reformed theology not Grace. We’re talking about salvation by faith without works and eternal security as well as predestination

Your claim is that Reformed theology was somehow refuted or condemned by ecumenical council.

I’ll ask a third time. Which councils.

 

[JIMINZ]

Reformed theology has always been rejected by the ecumenical council. It’s not what the apostles taught.

Sure your not Catholic, Protestants have never been accepted into the Ecumenical Council.

The fact they are Catholic is the reason they Reject Reformed Theology,

 

[JIMINZ]

Reformed theology has always been rejected by the ecumenical council. It’s not what the apostles taught.

It's not what the Ecumenical Council teaches either.

 

[JIMINZ]

The Eastern Orthodox. But technically you could say that all the apostolic churches rejected reformed theology. Not one of them ever supported it.

Of course they didn't, that is exactly why we do have a Protestant Reformed Theology, kind of an ERGO isn't it?

 

[Phil W]

1st: Water baptism isn't where the blood is applied.

It sure is, as that is where/when we are "immersed" into Christ and His suffering.

2ndly: I have ZERO doubts to what I posted.

Nor do I about my postings.

3rdly: I separated sanctification from justification because they are two different transactions. I explained this multiple times. Although, each begins at the same time. Justification is immediate & eternal. Sanctification is a ongoing process. Its our service to Christ that we are set apart to do.

It is your definition of sanctification that leads you to consider sanctification as gradual or life-long.
My definition of what you consider the gradual part of sanctification is...enduring till the end, or, manifesting God to those around us.
But we are already cleansed and set apart and consecrated.
We can't get 'more' consecrated or "more' cleansed.

Baptism of repentance: Is for Nation of Israel only; under the Gospel of the Kingdom message:
(NOTE: Baptism of REPENTANCE was John the Baptist ministry for the Nation of Israel only. A call of Repentance from breaking covenant with the LORD Jeremiah 31:32. John's water baptism here is a Jewish purification/cleansing doctrine preparing themselves (Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mar 1:3) for the soon coming prophesied & promised Messiah. Thru whom remission/pardon of sin would be provided.

Sorry you feel that way, as our old self, with the affections and lusts, is killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life at water baptism. (Rom 6:3-6)
The proof?
Freedom from sin! (Rom 6:7)
Has your 'take' on baptism produced a life without sin?
Mine has.

John the Baptist proclaimed:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit:
(NOTE: John Baptized with water. The coming Messiah will Baptize with the Holy Spirit)

So true, but the gift of the Holy Ghost comes after turning from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
In every case but Cornelius, the Spirit of God will not dwell in an unsanctified temple.
And how many minutes elapsed before he was water baptized too?

NOTE: Translators Capitalized Spirit in the beginning & end of the 1 Cor 12:13 signifying deity.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Baptized BY one "SPIRIT" = Holy Spirit. Into one body = The Body of Christ. And no water is used)

Taken together with 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."...the events of water baptism are the same as what you post.
AND by the Spirit of our God, implying more than one agent is responsible for our washing, sanctification, and our justification.
It is written in 1 John 5:8..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
You have removed the water and blood from your...formula for sanctification.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

(NOTE: A circumcision "made without hands")

Lets include the next verse for some clarification...Col 2:12 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
How does the gift of the Holy Ghost simulate burial?

 

[Oldmantook]

Who made the down payment? Who will claim?

Or do you see the down payment something like a signature loan?

Only the Father who gives the Spirit makes the down payment. We will claim, IF we are faithful. Suppose your father made the down payment on a house for you. You still have to make the mortgage payment and if not you forfeit the house. Same thing with salvation. The Spirit is given as a pledge of God's faithfulness. We as believers need to remain faithful and obedient but we have the choice not to do so, thus forfeiting our salvation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Of course they didn't, that is exactly why we do have a Protestant Reformed Theology, kind of an ERGO isn't it?

Hence it has been rejected by all of the apostolic churches.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your claim is that Reformed theology was somehow refuted or condemned by ecumenical council.

I’ll ask a third time. Which councils.

Sorry I was busy last night and it took me a while to find it. The Synod of Jerusalem in 1672AD. Here’s a quote.


Decree 3
We believe the most good God to have from eternity predestinated unto glory those whom He has chosen, and to have consigned unto condemnation those whom He has rejected; but not so that He would justify the one, and consign and condemn the other without cause. For that would be contrary to the nature of God, who is the common Father of all, and no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth {1 Timothy 2:4}. But since He foreknew the one would make a right use of their free-will, and the other a wrong, He predestinated the one, or condemned the other. And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.

But to say, as the most wicked heretics do and as is contained in the Chapter [of Cyril's' Confession] to which this answers — that God, in predestinating, or condemning, did not consider in any way the works of those predestinated, or condemned, we know to be profane and impious. For thus Scripture would be opposed to itself, since it promises the believer salvation through works, yet supposes God to be its sole author, by His sole illuminating grace, which He bestows without preceding works, to show to man the truth of divine things, and to teach him how he may co-operate with it, if he will, and do what is good and acceptable, and so obtain salvation. He takes not away the power to will — to will to obey, or not obey him.

But than to affirm that the Divine Will is thus solely and without cause the author of their condemnation, what greater defamation can be fixed upon God? and what greater injury and blasphemy can be offered to the Most High? We do know that the Deity is not tempted with evils, {cf. James 1:13} and that He equally wills the salvation of all, since there is no respect of persons with Him. we do confess that for those who through their own wicked choice, and their impenitent heart, have become vessels of dishonor, there is justly decreed condemnation. But of eternal punishment, of cruelty, of pitilessness, and of inhumanity, we never, never say God is the author, who tells us that there is joy in heaven over one sinner that repents. {Luke 15:7} Far be it from us, while we have our senses, to believe or to think this; and we do subject to an eternal anathema those who say and think such things, and esteem them to be worse than any infidels.

 

[redleghunter]

Only the Father who gives the Spirit makes the down payment. We will claim, IF we are faithful. Suppose your father made the down payment on a house for you. You still have to make the mortgage payment and if not you forfeit the house. Same thing with salvation. The Spirit is given as a pledge of God's faithfulness. We as believers need to remain faithful and obedient but we have the choice not to do so, thus forfeiting our salvation.

Ok, so in your theology salvation is not by Grace and free gift. You have to pay the landlord a certain amount to stay in the house. Did I get that right?

 

[redleghunter]

Sorry I was busy last night and it took me a while to find it. The Synod of Jerusalem in 1672AD. Here’s a quote.


Decree 3
We believe the most good God to have from eternity predestinated unto glory those whom He has chosen, and to have consigned unto condemnation those whom He has rejected; but not so that He would justify the one, and consign and condemn the other without cause. For that would be contrary to the nature of God, who is the common Father of all, and no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth {1 Timothy 2:4}. But since He foreknew the one would make a right use of their free-will, and the other a wrong, He predestinated the one, or condemned the other. And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.

But to say, as the most wicked heretics do and as is contained in the Chapter [of Cyril's' Confession] to which this answers — that God, in predestinating, or condemning, did not consider in any way the works of those predestinated, or condemned, we know to be profane and impious. For thus Scripture would be opposed to itself, since it promises the believer salvation through works, yet supposes God to be its sole author, by His sole illuminating grace, which He bestows without preceding works, to show to man the truth of divine things, and to teach him how he may co-operate with it, if he will, and do what is good and acceptable, and so obtain salvation. He takes not away the power to will — to will to obey, or not obey him.

But than to affirm that the Divine Will is thus solely and without cause the author of their condemnation, what greater defamation can be fixed upon God? and what greater injury and blasphemy can be offered to the Most High? We do know that the Deity is not tempted with evils, {cf. James 1:13} and that He equally wills the salvation of all, since there is no respect of persons with Him. we do confess that for those who through their own wicked choice, and their impenitent heart, have become vessels of dishonor, there is justly decreed condemnation. But of eternal punishment, of cruelty, of pitilessness, and of inhumanity, we never, never say God is the author, who tells us that there is joy in heaven over one sinner that repents. {Luke 15:7} Far be it from us, while we have our senses, to believe or to think this; and we do subject to an eternal anathema those who say and think such things, and esteem them to be worse than any infidels.

I'll try again. Which ecumenical council. The above is not from an ecumenical council.