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Sanctification - Justification - Redemption

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by BrotherJJ, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe then what you should have done from the OP is what you have just posted here.

    What it sounded like you were saying is, our Sanctification is a life long PROCESS, as so many other people say, we have to walk out our Sanctification, ie, keep being Sanctified, until we are fully Sanctified.

    Thanks finally for your Clarification.

    Yes Once Sanctified Always Sanctified. = (OSAS) kind of reminds me of something else, what could it have been? :scratch:
     
  2. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, we were both posting at the same time and got crossed up.

    You say
    I therefore go back to my original post and question #15 below.

     
  3. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    Water baptism is an outward emblem we undergo that proclaims our inner regeneration.

    Emblem: a symbolic representation of a particular quality or concept.

    The true one baptism (Eph 4:5) is when Christ baptizes/indwells/anoints us with the eternal seal of His Holy Spirit. Christ & Christ alone can do this (Matt 3:11)

    FINALLY
    Col 2:10 You are complete (perfect) in Christ, which is the head of all principality and power:

    11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the ""circumcision made without hands"", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    (NOTE: Only Christ can perform the spiritual surgery/circumcision of baptism. Done via the Holy Spirit without hands.)

    1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
    (NOTE: Spirit is capitalized showing deity. By one Spirit ALL are baptized into one body. ALL made to drink into one Spirit. Only Christ can perform the spiritual surgery/circumcision of baptism. Done in the Holy Spirit)

    By one Spirit = the Holy Spirit we are baptized into the Body of Christ. Only Christ can perform the spiritual/surgery circumcision of baptism. Done in/by the Holy Spirit without hands.

    Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

    Water baptism is an emblem of the true spiritual baptism/circumcision. Done only by Christ & without hands. An outwardly profession dying to self, being buried with Christ as we are submerged & of being raised together with him in new resurrection life.
     
  4. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean to you, that you are Dead indeed unto Sin, or is it just a symbolic image, not based in any reality for the Believer.
     
  5. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    Although, once "In Christ" I'm no longer sins slave. As long as I'm in this fleshly body I will cont to make mistakes. The good new is my slips/misses/sin mistakes are ALL imputed onto Christ. Not because of my great works, but, because of His great faithful sin atoning work. And His righteousness is imputed onto me. Not because of how great & wonderful I am, but because of how great & wonderful Christ is.

    John 12
    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground & die, "it abideth alone":
    "but if it die", "it bringeth forth much fruit"

    Although you were already saved by Grace thru faith. & have a secure place in Gods Heavenly Kingdon. You will not produce an abundance of Good fruits until you have been Baptised & taken part with Christ in His death, burial & resurrection

    You can't baptize yourself. All things by a witness of 2 or 3. This is to be made as a public outwardly statement. Jesus didn't suffer in hiding. His death, burial & resurrection were ALL public spectacle
    Conclusion:

    Like a corn of wheat or an apple seed. The seed is planted, it must first die, then with the soil, water & sunlight (for us faith, word & spirit). It begins to rise. At first it has no fruit. With proper care, it grows into a field or a tree which bears much good fruit.
     
  6. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    Then it isn't a life long process.

    Which, like for the vessels in the OT temple, happens when the blood of the sacrifice is applied to a person. (Heb 10:10)

    You will need additional verses to make the "at the moment" claim.
    And again, not a life long process.

    Please provide the verses stating that.

    That contradicts your "at the moment of" theory.

    Pick one...
    Sanctification happens at the moment...
    OR
    Sanctification is a life long...
    Either way, sanctification happens when we are "immersed" into Christ's death, burial, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life...baptism. (Rom 6:3-7)
    That is where the blood of Christ is applied to us for our atonement, sanctification, and justification.

    You are confusing sanctification with the works we do after our sanctification.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  7. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    Why not crucify that old man, with the affections and lusts? (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24)
    No lusts...no sin. (James 1:14-15)
    BTW, God knows the unrighteous are NOT righteous...and will not lie about it either.
    It is the unsanctified who are also unrighteous.
     
  8. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    I respect your opinion, but, clearly we disagree. Again my position is at the moment Christ indwells/baptizes us with His Holy Spirit (no hands, no water used) the sanctification process (we are set apart for a sacred/work) begins & this process continues until we meet the Lord in person & receive our incorruptible heavenly bodies. No need to pick one & no contradiction was offered. Best wishes...
     
  9. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    There is no process.
    After one turns permanently from sin and gets water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection, he has had the sanctifying, atoning blood applied to his vessel.
    It is clean of all past sin and ready for occupancy by the Holy Ghost- the baptism done by God.
    It is sanctified.
    Your use of the word "process" indicates that you believe there is more to be done in order to be eventually sanctified.
    Why do you think there is more to be done?
     
  10. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    The OP included KJB definition of sanctification. I've added their definition for consecration

    KJV Dictionary Definition: SANCTIFICA'TION, n.
    The act of making holy, the act of consecrating or of setting apart for a sacred purpose; consecration.

    KJV Dictionary Definition: CONSECRATION, n.
    1. The act or ceremony of separating form a common to a sacred use, or of devoting and dedicating a person or thing to the service and worship of God, by certain rites or solemnities. Consecration does not make a person or thing really holy, but declares it to be sacred, that is, devoted to God or to divine service; as the consecration of the priests among the Israelites; the consecration of the vessels used in the temple; the consecration of a bishop.

    Finally, the OP said this as well. I stand behind both statements. Of course people are allowed to disagree.

    At the moment we truly make the decision to trust Christ we are justified/SAVED (DONE DEAL). Our salvation is forever secure. Also, at this same point in time: Salvation/receiving the eternal seal, God's indwelling Holy Spirit, we are also SANCTIFIED (set apart for a sacred purpose) BOTH at the same time.

    However, Sanctification is a process, that continues, "which we must work through" (Phil 2:12) until the day of our final redemption. When we meet the Lord & receive a new incorruptible/heavenly body.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  11. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

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    The "act" is our water baptism into Christ's death, where His atoning sanctifying blood is applied to our bodies.
    It need not happen continually or gradually.

    Your doubt is exposed, with..."Consecration does not make a person or thing really holy,"
    If you believe that instead of what the bible says you have guaranteed you will never be sanctified.

    It's really a moot point, as our salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement. (Matt 7:22-23)

    You are separating sanctification from justification.
    You stated above that we are sanctified when we when we are given the gift of the Holy Ghost, but then change your mind and say it is a continuing process.
    Make up your mind!
    Both happen at our water baptism, done after a true turn from sin.
     
  12. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    1st: Water baptism isn't where the blood is applied.

    2ndly: I have ZERO doubts to what I posted.

    3rdly: I separated sanctification from justification because they are two different transactions. I explained this multiple times. Although, each begins at the same time. Justification is immediate & eternal. Sanctification is a ongoing process. Its our service to Christ that we are set apart to do.

    Baptism of repentance: Is for Nation of Israel only; under the Gospel of the Kingdom message:
    (NOTE: Baptism of REPENTANCE was John the Baptist ministry for the Nation of Israel only. A call of Repentance from breaking covenant with the LORD Jeremiah 31:32. John's water baptism here is a Jewish purification/cleansing doctrine preparing themselves (Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mar 1:3) for the soon coming prophesied & promised Messiah. Thru whom remission/pardon of sin would be provided.

    John the Baptist proclaimed:

    Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit:
    (NOTE: John Baptized with water. The coming Messiah will Baptize with the Holy Spirit)

    NOTE: Translators Capitalized Spirit in the beginning & end of the 1 Cor 12:13 signifying deity.

    1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
    (NOTE: Baptized BY one "SPIRIT" = Holy Spirit. Into one body = The Body of Christ. And no water is used)

    Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    (NOTE: A circumcision "made without hands")

    Deut 30:6 (A) The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart

    Matt 3:11 & Luke 3:16: The baptism into Christ's body via the Holy Spirit. Is a covenant of spiritual circumcision. Done by Christ & ONLY Christ. And done ""Spiritually"" without hands & without water


    Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    (NOTE: These gentiles REPENTED FROM NOTHING, HADN'T BEEN WATER BAPTIZED, they had brought no temple sacrifice, hadn't obeyed any Mosaic laws etc.

    By/thru Faith & Faith alone they were FOREVER SEALED with/by God's Holy Spirit. A Spiritual baptism/circumcision, done without hands: Col 2:11, done by Christ & Christ alone Matt 3:11)

    Water baptism DOESN'T remove sin, law keeping DOESN'T remove sin, obedience DOESN'T remove sin, repentance DOESN'T remove sin, tithing DOESN'T remove sin etc.

    Faith & faith alone, placed in the sacrificial sin redemptive WORK of Christ can remove sin!

    Finally, the blood is applied when Christ indwells/pours out His Holy Spirit onto/into us.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  13. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    All of the implements of the Temple were made with the purpose in mind, for which they were to be used, this was before they were Sanctified and set aside for such use as they were made for.

    WE are set apart through the Process of our Sanctification, this Process is our Baptism, where the Blood of Jesus is Applied, and the Holy Spirit Indwells the Born Again Believer.

    We at that time are set aside for the Purpose for which we were Created in Christ (Made, Reborn),

    Eph. 2:10
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Were the Implements of the Temple Sanctified before the Blood was Applied.

    A Believer is not Sanctified before the Blood is Applied, the Blood is not Applied during the (Forgiveness phase of their Salvation) but the Blood is Applied during the (Regeneration phase which is Baptism).
     
  14. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 3:11-15 is not talking about sin. Paul was talking about works that are building on the foundation of Christ. Their works are tested by fire to reveal if they are of any value or not. This is about bearing fruit and if the fruit remained. Honestly I would suggest looking to other sources outside of the KJV. The KJV is catered to reformed theology which has been refuted by every Christian church that existed before Martin Luther and John Calvin created their own doctrines.
     
  15. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    I spoke to this in #36 thread above
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Who made the down payment? Who will claim?

    Or do you see the down payment something like a signature loan?
     
  17. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    If their is no sin implications. What works are burned up?
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    That's interesting as neither Luther nor Calvin spoke or read English.
     
  19. Grumman Tomcat

    Grumman Tomcat The LORD is my Pilot Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON
    Address the post and not the CF member.
    Questioning a member's salvic status is a form of goading. Don't do it.
    MOD HAT OFF
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    “Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.”
    ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    Notice the materials that are used are used to build on the foundation of Christ. We cannot build on the foundation of Christ with sin. These are referring to the quality and effort we put into our building. If our building is of no value “doesn’t bring glory to God or is unfruitful” then it is burned up and we will not receive our reward in heaven.
     
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