Same-sex marriage and children Prop8

[catlover]

Ah but liberals therefore want to force the interpretation of secular ideas on kids rather that the Bible. Christians believe Jesus is the truth the way and the life and that His teaching is spirit and life so Christians naturally would want the truth taught.

..and you have the right to send your child to a private religious school where your "truth" can be taught.

 

[Zaac]

Sounds good. All you have offered regarding it is your own uninformed interpretation.

While all you've answered is uninformed platitudes.

If you think there will be an uprising of parents who want to teach their kids to hate, go for it.

Liberal babble. Just like racism, yall scream hate for everything that you want folks to fall over mindlessly in line with. Yall can save that little bullying tactic. It doesn't work with God's people.

A God which does not advocate hatred is worthy of worship. Call it what you will.

Again, you categorizing parents not wanting their kids indoctrinated with immorality as hate doesn't mean much , if anything to God's people. If not having our kids indoctrinated with that which is unGodly is classified as hate, then hateful we will be.

I'm prepared now for that and always will be. If advocating human rights results in being sentenced to "hell' that's certainly preferable than going to heaven presided over by an evil god.

Human rights? What human rights? Ain't no advocating sin got anything to do with human rights.

No, the liberal rhetoric of Jesus Christ did that.

More proof of your obvious confusion.

Under the system you propose all the people of character and decency would be so destined.

Chararcter and decency ain't the criteria to get ya into God's Kingdom.

Already has. What's this obsession with "fornication" anyhow?

What's the obsession with human rights over the Way of Christ?

 

[Zaac]

Again with the fornication. You appear to be uninformed of what parent volunteers do. They are indeed "in the classroom".

You can perch them up on a gold plated dais in the middle of the classroom and it still does not give the school license to teach that their fornicative relationship is morally acceptable.

No one does. It is only the right wing with the obsession over what people do in bed.

A fetus is not a "baby".

You call it what you like. It's alive and growing and murder is murder.

The slogan "abortion is murder" is merely hyperbole unrelated to jurisprudence. Even when abortion has been prohibited by law it has never ben considered murder.

It's rather sad how some folks look to the laws of man while ignoring the laws of God.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Yall can save that little bullying tactic. It doesn't work with God's people.

All people are God's People.

Human rights? What human rights? Ain't no advocating sin got anything to do with human rights.

No one tasking my position on these issues is "advocating sin" whatsoever.

Chararcter and decency ain't the criteria to get ya into God's Kingdom.

True. Which makes the concept fundamentalists have that somehow there's no sin in hebbin all the more ridiculous.

What's the obsession with human rights over the Way of Christ?

Human Rights is the Way of Christ.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Not really seeing what you're referring to as faulty. Malignant cancer cells grow and thus are alive. If it's growing and aging, it's alive.

So killing a cancer is murder?

How about killing an enemy combatant on the battlefield? Is that also murder?

Executing a convicted serial killer on death row? Is that murder?

Or, using lethal force against a person who is attempting to kill you? Is that murder.

Zaac, murder is a specific kind of killing. None of the examples above constitutes murder. So your statement "FYI, if it is growing and alive, it's still murder" is false. If you want to build the case that abortion is murder, you will have to do better.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To catlover (and Crazy Liz)

and you have the right to send your child to a private religious school where your "truth" can be taught.

So do you. However as a citizen who pays taxes to build and maintain state schools I have as much right to religious views being taught in school as secular. I don’t look favourably therefore on suggestion that other peoples views and other worldviews are not to be considered, thats intolerant and bigoted.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Texas Lynn,
There is no hate in the hearts of Christians who know we have been set free from sin and death through the blood of Jesus Christ. If you are seeing hate, then you must see that as hate.

 

[Zaac]

So killing a cancer is murder?

Cancer is cells that are part of a larger organism. You can kill the cells without murdering the organism. When they find a way to kill a developing baby's cells without killing the larger organism, let me know.

How about killing an enemy combatant on the battlefield? Is that also murder?

Did we not speak of righteous and unrighteous killing?

Executing a convicted serial killer on death row? Is that murder?

As God is the arbitor of final judgment, yep.

Or, using lethal force against a person who is attempting to kill you? Is that murder.

Righteous vs unrighteous

Zaac, murder is a specific kind of killing. None of the examples above constitutes murder. So your statement "FYI, if it is growing and alive, it's still murder" is false. If you want to build the case that abortion is murder, you will have to do better.

I know what murder is. Killing a growing, alive baby meets the criteria.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Cancer is cells that are part of a larger organism. You can kill the cells without murdering the organism. When they find a way to kill a devloping baby's cells without killing the larger organism, let me know.

...

I know what murder is. Killing a growing, alive baby meets the criteria.

So a cancer is not viable apart from its host, therefore killing a cancer is not murder.

Gotcha.

Now, since this is not Debates on Abortion, and since I'm not really interested in debating abortion, I'll drop it.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

anyone noticed that when people start throwing "liberal" around as if its an insult, their "discussion" becomes far more dogmatic? also, they often start claiming that the mountains of evidence contrary to their initial claims are all the result of some sort of conspiracy?

 

[No Swansong]

Ok; all discussion of malignant cells aside, a comment was made earlier that I wish to address.

It seems that some here think that the taxes they pay for schools are intended for the education of their children. This is only indirectly correct. The taxes that go to support public schools are there to provide a general education for the entire community. This benefits the entire community not just parents of school aged children. That is why everyone pays these taxes (usually property taxes) not just parents of current students. While I chose to homeschool my children (at least partially) I do not condone removing tax dollars from the public schools.

As for individual parents opposed to certain curriculum I do not support any individual having the ability to remove a specific curriculum from the schools. I do support that parent however having the right to have a child excused from a classroom that teaches a curriculum the parent find morally objectionable. I also support parents as a whole having input into what curriculum is chosen. Notice please I wrote input not veto power.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Ok; all discussion of malignant cells aside, a comment was made earlier that I wish to address.

It seems that some here think that the taxes they pay for schools are intended for the education of their children. This is only indirectly correct. The taxes that go to support public schools are there to provide a general education for the entire community. This benefits the entire community not just parents of school aged children. That is why everyone pays these taxes (usually property taxes) not just parents of current students. While I chose to homeschool my children (at least partially) I do not condone removing tax dollars from the public schools.

As for individual parents opposed to certain curriculum I do not support any individual having the ability to remove a specific curriculum from the schools. I do support that parent however having the right to have a child excused from a classroom that teaches a curriculum the parent find morally objectionable. I also support parents as a whole having input into what curriculum is chosen. Notice please I wrote input not veto power.

Sounds fair enough to me.

 

[Texas Lynn]

To Texas Lynn,
There is no hate in the hearts of Christians who know we have been set free from sin and death through the blood of Jesus Christ. If you are seeing hate, then you must see that as hate.

Nothing I have said addressed "Christians". Christians are on both sides of these issues. What constitutes hatred by some is advocacy of public policy which seeks to harm others.

 

[No Swansong]

Nothing I have said addressed "Christians". Christians are on both sides of these issues. What constitutes hatred by some is advocacy of public policy which seeks to harm others.

Do you not consider Lynn that such advocacy could be the result of ignorance and not hatred? Some aren't able to see the larger picture as to how a specific policy could cause harm. What on the surface might seem right may not be, but wouldn't they have to see below the surface to know that?

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to motivations.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear Texas Lynn,

Nothing I have said addressed "Christians".

No but I am a Christian and I don’t have hate in my heart because I know I have been set free from sin and death through the blood of Jesus Christ. You are describing what you see as hatred.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Do you not consider Lynn that such advocacy could be the result of ignorance and not hatred? Some aren't able to see the larger picture as to how a specific policy could cause harm. What on the surface might seem right may not be, but wouldn't they have to see below the surface to know that?

I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to motivations.

Ignorance and hatred and prejudice go hand in hand. We have right-wing groups demonizing LGBTs and it is true they exploit the gullible in labeling LGBTs as "the other" and stoking fears. But ultimately people are responsible for their own behavior.

Consider for example an article many years back in Focus on the Family Citizen about a so-called "Christian" AIDS Hospice which was claimed to "not permit homosexuality". I wondered, when I read that horrible and chilling to the bone claim, just how they did that. Were they truly so stupid as to assume that gay AIDS patients in terminal stages were obsessed with sex as they assumed healthy gay males are? Were that not aware that in a place for the dying same gender individuals, even ones of gay orientations, can embrace without there being a sexual component? What a smug and callous comment and ultimately what an evil attitude that is. I don't know what happened to that misbegotten program but I hope it's closed and patients of today are kept far from evil-minded people like the ones who made that horrible claim.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt is fine but that's not what the right-wing does to LGBTs. They seek active harm to them and will tell you exactly that.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Dear Texas Lynn,
No but I am a Christian and I don’t have hate in my heart because I know I have been set free from sin and death through the blood of Jesus Christ. You are describing what you see as hatred.

It is not uncommon for some to claim they themselves are free of sin while pointing the finger at others. It is better to look in the mirror than out the window.

When active harm to others is sought, hatred is at work.

 

[Zaac]

Dear Texas Lynn,
No but I am a Christian and I don’t have hate in my heart because I know I have been set free from sin and death through the blood of Jesus Christ. You are describing what you see as hatred.

She seems to be in the habit of running from thread to thread accusing anyone who disagrees with her liberal viewpoint as hateful.

 

[No Swansong]

Ignorance and hatred and prejudice go hand in hand. We have right-wing groups demonizing LGBTs and it is true they exploit the gullible in labeling LGBTs as "the other" and stoking fears. But ultimately people are responsible for their own behavior.

Consider for example an article many years back in Focus on the Family Citizen about a so-called "Christian" AIDS Hospice which was claimed to "not permit homosexuality". I wondered, when I read that horrible and chilling to the bone claim, just how they did that. Were they truly so stupid as to assume that gay AIDS patients in terminal stages were obsessed with sex as they assumed healthy gay males are? Were that not aware that in a place for the dying same gender individuals, even ones of gay orientations, can embrace without there being a sexual component? What a smug and callous comment and ultimately what an evil attitude that is. I don't know what happened to that misbegotten program but I hope it's closed and patients of today are kept far from evil-minded people like the ones who made that horrible claim.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt is fine but that's not what the right-wing does to LGBTs. They seek active harm to them and will tell you exactly that.

I'm sorry my friend I don't see all ignorance as willful ignorance. It took me years of experience to arrive where I am and I can assure you that I was never willfully ignorant. Nor was I guillible (sp?)

As for giving the LGBT population the benefit of the doubt I am certainly what one would consider conservative and I just as certainly give them they benefit of the doubt and do not as far as I know seek to actively harm anyone. I am afraid you may be allowing a stereotype to rule your thinking.

 

[No Swansong]

She seems to be in the habit of running from thread to thread accusing anyone who disagrees with her liberal viewpoint as hateful.

While Lynn can be abrasive, I am not sure this is a fair characterization.