Salvation

[Constantine the Sinner]

Is this a response to the proposals to not do anything to be saved or the op?

The OP. God saves whom he will, it's not up to you. You could labor a lifetime in total devotion to God, and he could cast you out, or you could be a dissolute villain whom he singles out for salvation for a reason unknown to anyone...even yourself.

One thing that won't get you saved is measuring out what you need. That includes the supererogatory approach of Catholics as well.

 

[Left]

One thing that won't get you saved is measuring out what you need.

I know. I was just curious. I knew if I asked this question, I would hopefully gain more insight into the subject, and I did. If I sinned in the course of doing so, I apologize to God and others.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

The bible says "Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and pharassies you will not enter the kingdom of heaven"... the righteousness of the scribes was "they put heavy burdens on you, but do not lift them with even their little finger" ... or "they say and do not do".

For a start there is no such thing as "least" ... we are to strive for the highest. The bible says "let him who names the name of the LORD depart from iniquity". We should be continually striving, to depart from iniquity. Psalms says it this way "the way of the righteous continually moves upwards, so they can aviod hell below".

However salvation of it's self is by faith, we have faith that Jesus has covered our sins (committed in ignorance (meaning those sins we are not aware of, or small sins we have a struggle overcomming). Faith in Jesus saves us. But the flip side of the coin is that sin hardens us, makes us believe less. If we persist in sin we will believe less, and less, and may stop believing.

The bible says "he who sins becomes a slave to sin" .... and "God will send them strong delusion so they will believe a lie, those who had no pleasure in the truth but rather in unrighteousness". If we persist in sins God is wanting us to deal with, we will eventually walk away from the faith, we will have no faith.

 

[Jim Langston]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

Love your neighbor as yourself, come to Jesus for forgiveness when you can not.

Matthew 19:
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I know. I was just curious. I knew if I asked this question, I would hopefully gain more insight into the subject, and I did. If I sinned in the course of doing so, I apologize to God and others.

God examines each of us on a case-by-case basis from the heart. There is no simple formulary table for salvation, and when Judgement comes, we will probably be shocked by the verdicts. Instead of doing the least, do the most, and beg God to remember you in his kingdom, because he commands us to ceaselessly beg as if we were pestering him, as if we wanted to make him let us into heaven out of exasperation. Do this, and follow Christ's commandments unflinchingly, recording every single violation of them and begging for mercy when you can on that. God does want you to do be saved, he wants everyone to be saved, and was willing to die for that--he didn't say, "What is the least I can do for humanity?" God gave it his all, his very life, the term for this total outpouring is "kenosis," and we are called to emulate it.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

The OP. God saves whom he will, it's not up to you. You could labor a lifetime in total devotion to God, and he could cast you out, or you could be a dissolute villain whom he singles out for salvation for a reason unknown to anyone...even yourself.

One thing that won't get you saved is measuring out what you need. That includes the supererogatory approach of Catholics as well.

I agree on this stance however I disagree in one aspect.

The bible says sure many are called few are chosen and he already has some written in the book of life. I agree there.

But I disagree that God will just throw you out if you serve him for life. The bible says they that endureth until the end shall be saved. And he says nothing can pluck us from our grasp but rather we can depart the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. He says we must choose Good or evil.



The ones who are chosen are able to serve him for life... the ones that were called but didn't stick with him and God knew they wouldn't and thus weren't chosen return to inequity.

 

[flowersontherubbishheap]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

 

[CodyFaith]

The gospel is believe in Jesus and be saved. Believe in Jesus and have your sins - past, present and future - paid for by the blood of the Lamb.

During the Passover in the OT the Israelite's put the shed blood of a lamb over their doors to deliver them from God's wrath. The lamb's blood was seen and God's angered was appeased. Christ is the Passover Lamb. Whoever believes in him is covered by his blood, his sin is forgiven and the only way he is seen through God is through eyes of the shed blood of the Lamb, Christ.

This is scriptural. Revelation 12:11 1 Peter 1:19 1 Corinthians 5:7

A person who believes becomes adopted as a child of God, never to be forsaken, and is indwelt with the Holy Spirit "until the day of redemption" Ephesians 4:30 Ephesians 1:13 2 Corinthians 1:12

 

[flowersontherubbishheap]

My question is really simple, but there are multiple possible answers depending on the person. I hope for this to become a broad thread so I get many different viewpoints.

I think the important thing is what the bible says about being saved. It's all a undeserved gift from him. It's not about us trying to frantically do good works to earn his favour, our works just don't cut it. The bible says that it's coming to the cross that's the only way to be saved and know God personally. Jesus is our salvation plan; our rescuer; our redeemer; the only way to know our sins forgiven and hope of heaven. It's the most extraordinary beautiful and generous gift anyone could ever give us. Jesus taking the awful burden of our sin so that we could be restored,healed, forgiven and adopted into his family.
Once we are saved our lives have to be characterised by good works... but not to save us, but to show Jesus how much we love him.

 

[Winken]

I should note that I gave myself to Christ again, either yesterday or the day before. I just haven't changed my icon so this seems to be the only board I can post this.

The question is still relevant to me as I need a little theology perspective 101 though, and I appreciate the posts here rockytopva.

Open your Bible. Turn to John 14:6. Don't stop to question it. Now turn to John 3:16-17. Read it twice. Don't get tangled up in "trying to figure it out." Now go to John 5:24. That is assurance. So is Ephesians 2:8-9. How about Romans 8:1?

All that is assurance. How do you get there? Romans 10:8-13. Salvation is by the Grace of our Most Merciful God, not of works. Rejoice in Him.

 

[Constantine the Sinner]

I agree on this stance however I disagree in one aspect.

The bible says sure many are called few are chosen and he already has some written in the book of life. I agree there.

But I disagree that God will just throw you out if you serve him for life. The bible says they that endureth until the end shall be saved. And he says nothing can pluck us from our grasp but rather we can depart the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. He says we must choose Good or evil.



The ones who are chosen are able to serve him for life... the ones that were called but didn't stick with him and God knew they wouldn't and thus weren't chosen return to inequity.

Remember the Pharisee and the Publican? The Pharisee served God for life, to be sure--but he put so much stock in it, he took God's grace for granted.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Remember the Pharisee and the Publican? The Pharisee served God for life, to be sure--but he put so much stock in it, he took God's grace for granted.

I guess I should have been more specific. When I say serve God for life I meant to say be christians. Christians understand that pride leads to destruction and a haughty spirit before hte fall. The apostles who were christians did also.

But yeah the pharisee had a pride issue which isn't christ like.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

Best question. But asked in wrong way.

God saves. He came down to our world and did it all A to Z. You have to accept it. I'm giving you a gift, the latest MacBook, for example. What you need to do? Take it! Use it! Enjoy it! Nothing else. Same with salvation. No need to complicate. Simplicity in Christ.

Just experience through faith, which is another term for trust of someone or acceptance of facts or considering information truthful - whichever way you define it, same basic idea.

Then Spirit completes the transaction, by being born in you. You can't help it, you can't prevent it. Its like being caught by summer rain in the field - can't hide, can't run away from it. Just turn up your head and hands and enjoy the event. New birth is such - an explosion of immense happiness and understanding from an outside source within you. But no amount of theory is good enough. ONLY to be experienced.

Why asked in wrong way? Because you add, don't tell me there's more to Christianity than just salvation of the soul. Hahaha. How wrong. Jesus said, nothing more important, sole reason He came. All the rest is just a fog that will disappear in a minute or two.

We live for this salvation, it's like a seed existing to germinate and grow into a plant. It's the only meaning of this life. To find your true self as God intended it. To your absolute full human potential. And that is achieved through rebirth within God, becoming one with Him.

Unsaved - like computer turned off. Good for door stop. Plug in and hit the on switch - you have a miracle machine. Same with us and finding true God through living Jesus, when saved!!!!

It's wonderful.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

God examines each of us on a case-by-case basis from the heart. There is no simple formulary table for salvation, and when Judgement comes, we will probably be shocked by the verdicts. Instead of doing the least, do the most, and beg God to remember you in his kingdom, because he commands us to ceaselessly beg as if we were pestering him, as if we wanted to make him let us into heaven out of exasperation. Do this, and follow Christ's commandments unflinchingly, recording every single violation of them and begging for mercy when you can on that. God does want you to do be saved, he wants everyone to be saved, and was willing to die for that--he didn't say, "What is the least I can do for humanity?" God gave it his all, his very life, the term for this total outpouring is "kenosis," and we are called to emulate it.

Dear brother Constantine, I do understand what you mean. And it sounds extremely humble and noble. But. But. But... You say that even God's Son had to die for our salvation. Question is, why He had to, if we can earn our way into heaven by a multitude of good works?

 

[Thir7ySev3n]

So uhhhhhh, half of people who call themselves "Christian" aren't saved?

That's correct.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

As just demonstrated by Christ Himself in the Scripture above, our repentance is required. It is precisely why the Gospel message was preceded by John with the exclamation "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near! (Matthew 3:2)" Then by Jesus, again, in Matthew 4:17. Do not let anyone tell you that preaching a message of repentance is another Gospel; a Gospel with no repentance is another Gospel, and it is one that will ensure your damnation.

While the patience, grace and forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ are free gifts for the one who truly accepts them (Ephesians 2:8-9), they are given for something; that is, to accomplish something in the believer. Salvation does not end at justification, but merely begins there. Once we are saved from the just wrath of God, if our submission for Christ's salvation and Lordship is genuine, we are then saved from sin, to repentance towards Christ, for good works. As the Scriptures say: "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10)." "Or do you show contempt for the riches of His kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance (Romans 2:4)?" "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! (2 Corinthians 5:17, see also Galatians 6:15)"

Jesus declared: "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned (John 15:5-6)."

In Jesus' explanation of His parable of the sower, He designated that there are four kinds of seed (Matthew 13:19-23). Only one kind He mentions are those who immediately reject the Gospel, and one kind are those who accept it and become fruitful, up to thirty, sixty or a hundred times what was sown. But two kinds of these seeds are described as ostensible believers, those who at once appear to accept it with joy, but then shortly after fall away or get choked by the worries and pleasures of this life and become unfruitful (see also Matthew 7:21 and Jude 1:4). So again we see that there is a distinction between mere intellectual assent to the claims of the Gospel, and having a saving faith in Christ that is authenticated by the bearing of fruit. You can believe in God and that Jesus is His Son and still make yourself an enemy of God by your rejection of His sanctifying work in your life, as even the demons know these truths (Matthew 8:28-29, James 2:19).

So what does Christ mean by bearing fruit? What is this fruit that authenticates that I am remaining in the vine, whom is Jesus? Specific manifestations of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (who Christ does His sanctifying work through, John 16:7) are described in a few places in Scripture (Galatians 5:22-23, 1 Corinthians 12:3-11), but, broadly, the fruit of the Holy Spirit is Christ-likeness. Above all, it is the ever-growing knowledge and love of God, and the consequent growing love for our neighbour.

If we are saved, we have inherited eternal life, and eternal life is to know God (John 17:3), and God is love (1 John 4:8). Thus, if we have come to know God, since Christ makes Him known, (John 1:18) we will love God, and "...this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome (1 John 5:3)." This is true; His commands are not burdensome to the one who has come to know God because all of this is the result of the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, who effectuates God's work of saving us from the present power of sin so that we are no longer enslaved to it, but are freed to live for the glory of God. God accomplishes this by giving us an entirely new nature, so that not only do we despise sin, but we also find pleasure in doing the will of God because it is now the Holy Spirit that is at work in us, regenerating our spirit and putting to death the sinful inclinations of our flesh. As Paul admonishes in Galatians 5:16-17:

“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.”

This will be gradual, but also eventual; there will be times of regress, but there will be recovery and continual growth, "being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6)."

In the words of John: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One (1 John 2:1)."

Thus Christ calls to us saying: "Come to Me, all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30)."

Make no mistake: We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone, but we are saved from the past penalty of sin and the present power of sin for repentance to Christ, who will begin His work of making us spotless and without blemish for the day of our glorification, the redemption of our bodies (Ephesians 5:27, Romans 8:23).

 

[truefiction1]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

Repent.

 

[JesusIsMyTicket]

The least you must do is accept God as Lord and savior.

 

[Galatea]

Religion is "doing". Christianity is "believing".

There is none that doeth good, no not one. - that covers you, me, sweet granny growing her roses.

Our righteousness is filthy rags, there is nothing we can bring to God. That's kind of reassuring. After all, sweet granny's good deeds are better than mine. Yours are probably better than mine too.

Jesus says "Come unto me all ye who are weak and heavy laden" and He'll give us rest.

It seems like I mention this an awful lot, but the thief on the cross next to Jesus didn't do anything to be saved. He couldn't. All he could do was believe that Jesus was the Messiah and ask Him to take him to Paradise.

We are ALL just as helpless and as worthless as that thief on the cross. We can't lift a pinky finger to be saved.

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

 

[CodyFaith]

That's correct.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)



As just demonstrated by Christ Himself in the Scripture above, our repentance is required. It is precisely why the Gospel message was preceded by John with the exclamation "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near! (Matthew 3:2)" Then by Jesus, again, in Matthew 4:17. Do not let anyone tell you that preaching a message of repentance is another Gospel; a Gospel with no repentance is another Gospel, and it is one that will ensure your damnation.

While the patience, grace and forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ are free gifts for the one who truly accepts them (Ephesians 2:8-9), they are given for something; that is, to accomplish something in the believer. Salvation does not end at justification, but merely begins there. Once we are saved from the just wrath of God, if our submission for Christ's salvation and Lordship is genuine, we are then saved from sin, to repentance towards Christ, for good works. As the Scriptures say: "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do (Ephesians 2:10)." "Or do you show contempt for the riches of His kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance (Romans 2:4)?" "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! (2 Corinthians 5:17, see also Galatians 6:15)"

Jesus declared: "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned (John 15:5-6)."

In Jesus' explanation of His parable of the sower, He designated that there are four kinds of seed (Matthew 13:19-23). Only one kind He mentions are those who immediately reject the Gospel, and one kind are those who accept it and become fruitful, up to thirty, sixty or a hundred times what was sown. But two kinds of these seeds are described as ostensible believers, those who at once appear to accept it with joy, but then shortly after fall away or get choked by the worries and pleasures of this life and become unfruitful (see also Matthew 7:21 and Jude 1:4). So again we see that there is a distinction between mere intellectual assent to the claims of the Gospel, and having a saving faith in Christ that is authenticated by the bearing of fruit. You can believe in God and that Jesus is His Son and still make yourself an enemy of God by your rejection of His sanctifying work in your life, as even the demons know these truths (Matthew 8:28-29, James 2:19).

So what does Christ mean by bearing fruit? What is this fruit that authenticates that I am remaining in the vine, whom is Jesus? Specific manifestations of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (who Christ does His sanctifying work through, John 16:7) are described in a few places in Scripture (Galatians 5:22-23, 1 Corinthians 12:3-11), but, broadly, the fruit of the Holy Spirit is Christ-likeness. Above all, it is the ever-growing knowledge and love of God, and the consequent growing love for our neighbour.

If we are saved, we have inherited eternal life, and eternal life is to know God (John 17:3), and God is love (1 John 4:8). Thus, if we have come to know God, since Christ makes Him known, (John 1:18) we will love God, and "...this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome (1 John 5:3)." This is true; His commands are not burdensome to the one who has come to know God because all of this is the result of the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, who effectuates God's work of saving us from the present power of sin so that we are no longer enslaved to it, but are freed to live for the glory of God. God accomplishes this by giving us an entirely new nature, so that not only do we despise sin, but we also find pleasure in doing the will of God because it is now the Holy Spirit that is at work in us, regenerating our spirit and putting to death the sinful inclinations of our flesh. As Paul admonishes in Galatians 5:16-17:

“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.”

This will be gradual, but also eventual; there will be times of regress, but there will be recovery and continual growth, "being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6)."

In the words of John: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One (1 John 2:1)."

Thus Christ calls to us saying: "Come to Me, all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30)."

Make no mistake: We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone, but we are saved from the past penalty of sin and the present power of sin for repentance to Christ, who will begin His work of making us spotless and without blemish for the day of our glorification, the redemption of our bodies (Ephesians 5:27, Romans 8:23).

Romans 10:9 and many other places says otherwise. It doesn't say "if you trust in Jesus after believing to free you from sin" and other works like things.

If you believe Jesus is the Son of God, that God raised him from the dead - you are saved.

 

[SLB]

What, in your opinion, is the least you have to do to get saved?

Can you answer the question without applying "There is more to Christianity than salvation" arguments?

One minister I used to know called it the "irreduceable minimum". People who want to just squeak over the line from being damned to being saved. The answer to your question is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

But as you have seen there are a lot of "Christians" who say they are believers, but sure don't act like it. What kind of Christian do you want to be? Are you satisfied with just stepping over the line? Or do you want a relationship with Jesus that will carry you through anything and everything. Because if it's the latter you want, it's going to cost you.

See what it says in "1 Corinthians 3:12-15 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."