SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE
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Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If you continue in My word, then are you My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
1. Beloved, our condition needs much endurance; and endurance is produced when doctrines are deeply rooted. For as no wind is able by its assaults to tear up the oak, which sends down its root into the lower recesses of the earth, and is firmly clenched there; so too the soul which is nailed by the fear of God none will be able to overturn. Since to be nailed is more than to be rooted. Thus the Prophet prays, saying, Nail my flesh by Your fear Psalm 119:120, Septuagint; do Thou so fix and join me, as by a nail riveted into me. For as men of this kind are hard to be captured, so the opposite sort are a ready prey, and are easily thrown down. As was the case of the Jews at that time; for after having heard and believed, they again turned out of the way.
St John Chrysostom (~390 AD)
31 Jesus said therefore to the Jews which believed on Him, If YE abide in My word, ye are My disciples indeed.
He demandeth of those who believe a disposition established and fixed and prepared for the abode of that good which they had once chosen. And this is faith in Him. For wavering shews utter senselessness and unprofit, seeing that A double minded man is unstable in all his ways, as it is written: but to press forward firmly to have hold of what is profitable, is indeed wise and most useful. As far then as belongs to the more obvious meaning, He says this, that if they shall desire to obey His Words, then shall they be surely called His disciples also. But as regards some hidden meaning, He signifies this: for in saying If YE abide in My Word, He is clearly withdrawing them by degrees and gently from the Mosaic teachings, and removing them from adherence to the letter and bidding them no longer cleave to what were uttered and done in type, but rather to His own Word which is clearly the Gospel and Divine preaching. For He it was Who ever of old was speaking to us through the holy Prophets, but they were the mediators, through whom (that is) He spake to us. But the Gospel preaching will be conceived of as properly His Word (for not through another do we find that it came to us but through Himself) wherefore when Incarnate He says, I That speak am present. And Paul too will testify saying in the Epistle to the Hebrews, God Who in many ways and modes of old spake unto the fathers by the prophets in these last times spake unto us by the Son. Himself therefore a worker unto teaching hath the Son come to us at the last periods of the world: therefore will the Gospel teaching be rightly called His Word. It were meet then more nakedly and openly to say, Ye who have accepted the faith in Me, and though late have yet acknowledged Him Who of old is preached unto you by the law and prophets, no longer be ye attached to the types through Moses, nor be persuaded to cleave to the shadows of the law, nor lay it down that the power of salvation consists wholly in them, but in the spiritual teachings, and in the Gospel preachings that are through Me. But it was not unlikely, yea rather it was undoubted, that receiving but now and hardly the faith, and having their understanding shaken and ready for unsettling, they would not endure such words, nor would at all hold out, in that they are ever prone to anger, but as though the all-wise Moses were hereby insulted, and put to nought because the things appointed to them of old through him were despised:—they would have turned readily to their proper daring and, ever set upon agreeing with him, thought nothing of any longer believing on Christ. Economically therefore and veiledly as yet arranging the things of Moses in contrast with His own words, i. e., putting the Gospel preaching over against the law, and setting the new teachings in very superior place to the elder ones, He says, If YE continue in My Word, verily ye are My disciples, for they who are pre-eminent in perfect faith and unhesitatingly receive into their mind the Gospel teaching, not unduly regarding the shadow of the law, are in truth disciples of Christ, while they who act not thus, mock themselves, not able to be in truth disciples, and therefore falling away from salvation. And verily the blessed Paul to those who after the faith foolishly desire to be justified by the law, openly writes, Ye were set free from Christ, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye fell from grace. Wondrous then and precious is single faith and the desire closely to follow Christ, drawing the shadows of the law unto the knowledge of Him, and transfashioning the things darkly spoken unto spiritual instruction. For through the law and the prophets is preached the Mystery of Him.
St Cyril of Alexandria (~435 AD)
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(33) They answered him—i.e., the Jews who had believed in Him (John 8:31). There is no indication that this answer was made by others standing near, nor would this supposition have been made but for the difficulty of applying some of the words which follow (John 8:40; John 8:44) to those who had ever professedly been believers; but the explanation is to be found in our Lord’s own warning words in John 8:31. He has tested their faith, and they fail in the first steps of discipleship.
Meyer's NT Commentary
John 8:33. Ἀπεκρίθησαν] No others can be the subject, but the πεπιστενκότες αὐτῷ Ἰουδαῖοι, John 8:31. So correctly, Melancthon (“offensi resiliunt”), Maldonatus, Bengel, Olshausen, Kling, B. Crusius, Hilgenfeld, Lange, Ewald, and several others, after the example of Chrysostom, who aptly observes: κατέπεσεν εὐθέως αὐτῶν ἡ διάνοια· τοῦτο δὲ γέγονεν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρὸς τὸ κοσμικὰ ἐπτοῆσθαι. John himself has precluded us from supposing any other to be intended, by expressly referring (John 8:31) to those Jews among the πολλοί (John 8:30) who had believed, and emphatically marking them as the persons who conduct the following conversation. To them the last word of Jesus proved at once a stone of stumbling. Hence we must not suppose that Jews are referred to who had remained unbelieving and hostile (as do Augustine, Calvin, Lampe, Kuinoel, De Wette, Tholuck, Lücke, Maier, Hengstenberg), and different from those who were mentioned in John 8:31 (ἀπεκρ. they, indef.); nor do the words ζητεῖτέ με ἀποκτ. in John 8:37 necessitate this supposition, inasmuch as those πεπιστευκότες might have at once veered round and returned again to the ranks of the opposition, owing to the offence given to their national pride by the words in John 8:32. Accordingly, there is no warrant for saying with Luthardt that the reply came primarily from opponents, but that some of those who believed also chimed in from want of understanding. The text speaks exclusively of πεπιστευκότες.
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
33. They answered him] Or, unto Him, according to the best MSS. ‘They’ must mean ‘the Jews who had believed Him’ (John 8:31): it is quite arbitrary to suppose any one else. The severe words which follow (John 8:44) are addressed to them, for turning back, after their momentary belief, as well as to those who had never believed at all.
1. Beloved, our condition needs much endurance; and endurance is produced when doctrines are deeply rooted. For as no wind is able by its assaults to tear up the oak, which sends down its root into the lower recesses of the earth, and is firmly clenched there; so too the soul which is nailed by the fear of God none will be able to overturn. Since to be nailed is more than to be rooted. Thus the Prophet prays, saying, Nail my flesh by Your fear Psalm 119:120, Septuagint; do Thou so fix and join me, as by a nail riveted into me. For as men of this kind are hard to be captured, so the opposite sort are a ready prey, and are easily thrown down. As was the case of the Jews at that time; for after having heard and believed, they again turned out of the way.
St John Chrysostom (~390 AD)
31 Jesus said therefore to the Jews which believed on Him, If YE abide in My word, ye are My disciples indeed.
He demandeth of those who believe a disposition established and fixed and prepared for the abode of that good which they had once chosen. And this is faith in Him. For wavering shews utter senselessness and unprofit, seeing that A double minded man is unstable in all his ways, as it is written: but to press forward firmly to have hold of what is profitable, is indeed wise and most useful. As far then as belongs to the more obvious meaning, He says this, that if they shall desire to obey His Words, then shall they be surely called His disciples also. But as regards some hidden meaning, He signifies this: for in saying If YE abide in My Word, He is clearly withdrawing them by degrees and gently from the Mosaic teachings, and removing them from adherence to the letter and bidding them no longer cleave to what were uttered and done in type, but rather to His own Word which is clearly the Gospel and Divine preaching. For He it was Who ever of old was speaking to us through the holy Prophets, but they were the mediators, through whom (that is) He spake to us. But the Gospel preaching will be conceived of as properly His Word (for not through another do we find that it came to us but through Himself) wherefore when Incarnate He says, I That speak am present. And Paul too will testify saying in the Epistle to the Hebrews, God Who in many ways and modes of old spake unto the fathers by the prophets in these last times spake unto us by the Son. Himself therefore a worker unto teaching hath the Son come to us at the last periods of the world: therefore will the Gospel teaching be rightly called His Word. It were meet then more nakedly and openly to say, Ye who have accepted the faith in Me, and though late have yet acknowledged Him Who of old is preached unto you by the law and prophets, no longer be ye attached to the types through Moses, nor be persuaded to cleave to the shadows of the law, nor lay it down that the power of salvation consists wholly in them, but in the spiritual teachings, and in the Gospel preachings that are through Me. But it was not unlikely, yea rather it was undoubted, that receiving but now and hardly the faith, and having their understanding shaken and ready for unsettling, they would not endure such words, nor would at all hold out, in that they are ever prone to anger, but as though the all-wise Moses were hereby insulted, and put to nought because the things appointed to them of old through him were despised:—they would have turned readily to their proper daring and, ever set upon agreeing with him, thought nothing of any longer believing on Christ. Economically therefore and veiledly as yet arranging the things of Moses in contrast with His own words, i. e., putting the Gospel preaching over against the law, and setting the new teachings in very superior place to the elder ones, He says, If YE continue in My Word, verily ye are My disciples, for they who are pre-eminent in perfect faith and unhesitatingly receive into their mind the Gospel teaching, not unduly regarding the shadow of the law, are in truth disciples of Christ, while they who act not thus, mock themselves, not able to be in truth disciples, and therefore falling away from salvation. And verily the blessed Paul to those who after the faith foolishly desire to be justified by the law, openly writes, Ye were set free from Christ, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye fell from grace. Wondrous then and precious is single faith and the desire closely to follow Christ, drawing the shadows of the law unto the knowledge of Him, and transfashioning the things darkly spoken unto spiritual instruction. For through the law and the prophets is preached the Mystery of Him.
St Cyril of Alexandria (~435 AD)
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(33) They answered him—i.e., the Jews who had believed in Him (John 8:31). There is no indication that this answer was made by others standing near, nor would this supposition have been made but for the difficulty of applying some of the words which follow (John 8:40; John 8:44) to those who had ever professedly been believers; but the explanation is to be found in our Lord’s own warning words in John 8:31. He has tested their faith, and they fail in the first steps of discipleship.
Meyer's NT Commentary
John 8:33. Ἀπεκρίθησαν] No others can be the subject, but the πεπιστενκότες αὐτῷ Ἰουδαῖοι, John 8:31. So correctly, Melancthon (“offensi resiliunt”), Maldonatus, Bengel, Olshausen, Kling, B. Crusius, Hilgenfeld, Lange, Ewald, and several others, after the example of Chrysostom, who aptly observes: κατέπεσεν εὐθέως αὐτῶν ἡ διάνοια· τοῦτο δὲ γέγονεν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρὸς τὸ κοσμικὰ ἐπτοῆσθαι. John himself has precluded us from supposing any other to be intended, by expressly referring (John 8:31) to those Jews among the πολλοί (John 8:30) who had believed, and emphatically marking them as the persons who conduct the following conversation. To them the last word of Jesus proved at once a stone of stumbling. Hence we must not suppose that Jews are referred to who had remained unbelieving and hostile (as do Augustine, Calvin, Lampe, Kuinoel, De Wette, Tholuck, Lücke, Maier, Hengstenberg), and different from those who were mentioned in John 8:31 (ἀπεκρ. they, indef.); nor do the words ζητεῖτέ με ἀποκτ. in John 8:37 necessitate this supposition, inasmuch as those πεπιστευκότες might have at once veered round and returned again to the ranks of the opposition, owing to the offence given to their national pride by the words in John 8:32. Accordingly, there is no warrant for saying with Luthardt that the reply came primarily from opponents, but that some of those who believed also chimed in from want of understanding. The text speaks exclusively of πεπιστευκότες.
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
33. They answered him] Or, unto Him, according to the best MSS. ‘They’ must mean ‘the Jews who had believed Him’ (John 8:31): it is quite arbitrary to suppose any one else. The severe words which follow (John 8:44) are addressed to them, for turning back, after their momentary belief, as well as to those who had never believed at all.
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FreeGrace2
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yada, yada, yada. How about some actual evidence to back up your lame claims?
I hear perfectly fine. And all you've posted is unbiblical. As I've shown. Unlike your responses.
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FreeGrace2
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None of the cited comments are believable at all. But the last one needs a response.
Whether one's belief is "momentary" as was claimed, or continues to the end of one's life, doesn't matter, for Jesus STATED that whoever believes (Jn 5:24) and "the one believing" (Jn 6:47) HAS (possesses) eternal life.
Then He stated in the clearest of terms in John 10:28a the CAUSE AND EFFECT of eternal security.
He is the One who gives the gift of eternal life. And the EFFECT of possessing eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish.
Jesus couldn't have been more clear about eternal security. It's given to those who believe and the EFFECT (result) is that they shall never perish.
What the OSNAS crowd doesn't have is any clear verse on losing salvation or eternal life.
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“For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.”
1 John 5:4 NLT
This is evidence that if someone does not defeat evil then they are not a child of God. So my question is can someone be a child of God then later not be a child of God?
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Yes, you are. I posted the passage where Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You responded by saying, "by this logic." What logic? Jesus said it. If He said He only came to Israel, did He only come to Israel?
You're trying to take passages of Scripture that were aimed at Israel and apply them to Gentiles. That's eisegesis.
And you claim that there is any other form of life has not been proven from Scripture, like the majority of the claims you've made. What's laughable is this argument that you're attempting to make. You've given nothing to support your claim except a passage of Scripture taken out of context. Even in this statement you indicate that eternal life is something other than our physical life. However, you haven't proven nor can you prove it. It's just some random idea that you're presenting without proof.
God's life is eternal. Is that only future? Of course not. You're still not making any sense.[/quote]
Your statement don't make much sense and are sometimes difficult to follow. We are talking about a reward from God, not God's life.
Translation, it refutes your position and you have not reply
Another unproven assumption.
Again, you didn't address the issure. "IS" believing.
I've already pointed out that the word guarantee isn't in that passage. Also, a seal can be broken that can be clearly seen in the Scriptures.
I've already addressed this.
NO, just understand the Scriptures correctly.
Again you avoid the issue
It's pretty clear, Israel.
No offense, but it's hard to have a discussion with you when you lack even a rudimentary understanding of Scripture. You go from passage to passage trying to weave together a narrative to fit what you choose to believe. When someone put forward any evidence that refutes what you say you simply ignore it and continue to beat the same drum. Instead of trying to prove everyone else wrong why not sit down and have a ligitimate discussion
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FreeGrace2
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I said:
"No, I've not reasoned anything away. I have pointed out what a foolish claim is."
Have you snipped John 4:42 out of your Bible yet? The Samaritans knew that Jesus was the Savior of the world. Or 1 John 4:14 where John the beloved disciple also noted that Jesus is the Savior of the world?
So, if I have, where is the proof that supports your charge? So far, all I've seen is a lot of opinion.
To equate the 2 is absurd.
I said:
"Only those who can't grasp the difference between physical and eternal life would make such a statement."
Your response:
I said this:
"Regarding the sealing of the Holy Spirit, noted in Eph 1:13,14, the sealing is for those "having believed". Aorist tense. And the result is the guarantee of our inheritance. Based on having believed. Not "is" believing, as if one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, or even just to be saved."
Your response:
Here is Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
At www.biblehub.com there are 28 translations in English. 8 of them use "guarantee" or "guaranteeing".
Or, is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be removed from the believer? If so, please back up this idea from the NT. Yes, King David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit. But in OT times, the Holy Spirit wasn't given to all believers, but only a very few, and for special purposes. In the NT, He is given to ALL believers.
I said:
"The promise is for those who have been given eternal life. Jesus said so. Jn 10:28a."
Your response:
So, let's review:
Jesus gives eternal life. So He is the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. So the EFFECT of possessing eternal life is to never perish.
We know eternal life is for whosoever believes. So everyone (except you) knows that the promise isn't just for Jews, but whoever believes.
It is you who avoids the clear issue of eternal security from John 10:28a.
If my views are "out of context" as charged, why hasn't there been ANY evidence or explanation of how they are?
If you are truly interested in a "legitimate discussion" please begin by explaining what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28a, and how it cannot be referring to eternal security.
I'll get the popcorn.
"No, I've not reasoned anything away. I have pointed out what a foolish claim is."
I noticed that you failed to answer my question. Nor address ALL the verses that actually SAY plainly that Jesus died for all.
Have you snipped John 4:42 out of your Bible yet? The Samaritans knew that Jesus was the Savior of the world. Or 1 John 4:14 where John the beloved disciple also noted that Jesus is the Savior of the world?
lol. So, I'm curious as to what you consider was aimed at Gentiles in the Bible? Care to share?
Please re-do this sentence, as it doesn't make any sense. The Bible speaks of physical life and eternal life. Why argue with that?
It's quite easy to disagree with someone and charge them with "taking out of context". It's quite another thing to prove such a claim.
So, if I have, where is the proof that supports your charge? So far, all I've seen is a lot of opinion.
Consider this: eternal life is descxribed as a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And the gospel of John is FULL of verses that say that eternal life (the gift) is GIVEN to believers. So it should be obvious to anyone that it's quite different than physical life.
To equate the 2 is absurd.
I said:
"Only those who can't grasp the difference between physical and eternal life would make such a statement."
Your response:
Not a bad translation. What I said DOES refute your position and you have no reply.
All your claims are unproven assumptions.
I said this:
"Regarding the sealing of the Holy Spirit, noted in Eph 1:13,14, the sealing is for those "having believed". Aorist tense. And the result is the guarantee of our inheritance. Based on having believed. Not "is" believing, as if one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, or even just to be saved."
Your response:
No, you've only offered another unproven opinion.
Here is Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
At www.biblehub.com there are 28 translations in English. 8 of them use "guarantee" or "guaranteeing".
lol. The seal is the indwelling Holy Spirit Himself. Is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be broken? How ridiculous.
Or, is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be removed from the believer? If so, please back up this idea from the NT. Yes, King David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit. But in OT times, the Holy Spirit wasn't given to all believers, but only a very few, and for special purposes. In the NT, He is given to ALL believers.
I wish you would.
I said:
"The promise is for those who have been given eternal life. Jesus said so. Jn 10:28a."
Your response:
No, I have pointed out the issue, which is the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.
So, let's review:
Jesus gives eternal life. So He is the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. So the EFFECT of possessing eternal life is to never perish.
We know eternal life is for whosoever believes. So everyone (except you) knows that the promise isn't just for Jews, but whoever believes.
It is you who avoids the clear issue of eternal security from John 10:28a.
lol.
I choose to believe what the Bible SAYS. Why don't you?
No one has done that. What I have been getting is a lot of unsubstantiated opinions.
Why haven't you answered my questions? That's how a "legitimate discussion" goes.
If my views are "out of context" as charged, why hasn't there been ANY evidence or explanation of how they are?
If you are truly interested in a "legitimate discussion" please begin by explaining what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28a, and how it cannot be referring to eternal security.
I'll get the popcorn.
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Dude, you are all over the place. I've shown plainly that the passage you quoted is out of context. You applied a passage that was aimed at Israel universally. That's Eisegesis. This thread can be closed now because the op has been disproved.
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FreeGrace2
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Rather, my view is focused on what the Bible actually says.
Rather, all you've done is repeatedly claim that the passage I quoted is out of context.
But, wait a sec. How can quoting any passage be "out of context"? Any passage quoted is IN context of what surrounds the passage.
So your claim is lame.
When will this repeated opinion be proven from Scripture? And I asked for your explanation of what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28a.
But you repeatedly refuse to do so.
Just another opinion. And unproven at that.
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It's not opinion. I've shown what Jesus said. He said He was sent to Israel. Anyone can read the passage. It shows that your use of the passage universally is out of context. Thus your op is incorrect. You can pretend all you like that you're making an argument but any reasonable person can see right through it.
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FreeGrace2
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It is.
What did He mean in John 10:28a? This hasn't been answered or expplained yet.
So what? He is the Savior of the world. John 4:42 and 1 John 4:14.
Therefore, He died for everyone.
2 Cor 5:14,15, Heb 2:9, 1 John 2:2
Then explain WHAT Jesus meant in John 10:28a.
Then just explain what Jesus meant in John 10:28a.
That would clear all this up.
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Anyone who can read can see that what Jesus said. He was only sent to Israel. You took His words and applied them universally. That is out of context. Thus your statement is wrong. It's not opinion no matter how much you claim it is.
By not addressing the real issues you just show that your argument is weak at best.
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Gr8Grace
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The absolute silliness that comes out of folks who kick against the goads of the truth of eternal security is amazing sometimes!
Your verse.....He was sent only to Israel?
Why did The Lord Jesus Christ help the GENTILE woman(and she was SAVED) then? She had great faith, called Him The Lord, even knew that Jesus Christ was King in His humanity.
If he was telling this woman that He was only there for the lost sheep of Israel............why did he help her and not listen to his arrogant, proud disciples to "send her away."
I think it is because His disciples had forgotten a very BIG truth.........Of which He was reminding them of.....
Isa 49:6~~New International Version
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."
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Are you gonna start the same nonsense? Those are the words Jesus spoke. If you want to apply them outside of that context please explain how to do so. If not you're just talking like he is.
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Gr8Grace
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So why did He help this gentile woman?
If He was literally saying," I only came for the lost sheep of Israel." He would have heeded His disciples request to send her away.
If He literally meant that he came only for Israel.........He would have told her to leave. He would have been incapable to help her.
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FreeGrace2
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I said this:
"What did He mean in John 10:28a? This hasn't been answered or expplained yet."
Your repeated opinions are ALL without any evidence at all.
The verse about Jesus being sent only to Israel is because He is the King of the Jews, just as the sign above Him said during His crucifixion. He was sent to Israel because He is their king. Which they rejected as a nation.
Are you ever going to answer this?
"What did He mean in John 10:28a? This hasn't been answered or expplained yet."
So, what, exactly was He saying to Israel? This hasn't been explained. Why all the deflection?
Please show how John 10:28a is "out of context" in a universal application.
Your repeated opinions are ALL without any evidence at all.
The verse about Jesus being sent only to Israel is because He is the King of the Jews, just as the sign above Him said during His crucifixion. He was sent to Israel because He is their king. Which they rejected as a nation.
Your opinion is wrong.
Your opinions are wrong no matter how many times you claim they are true.
So, what exactly was Jesus telling Israel in John 10:28a?
Are you ever going to answer this?
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FreeGrace2
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The problem is your own misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying.
If your view was correct, then Jesus died only for Jews, and only Jews are going to be saved.
That is beyond absurd.
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Gr8Grace
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Great stuff Brother. Many overlook the fact that The Lord was directly speaking to a SAVED(and I contend a mature Christian. She answered doctrine with doctrine directly to the Lord.)gentile woman in His humanity. And she called Him,"Son of David." This is significant.
She recognized Jesus, in His humanity, as the King of the Jews.
So the phrase," I only came for the lost sheep of Israel."........did not apply to her. She was a saved gentile woman.
And by the way..........great to see you here contending for the truth also!
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FreeGrace2
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To place either John 3:16 or John 10:28a in the so-called "context" of Jesus only coming to Israel is simply a smokescreen, designed to deflect from the obvious truth that Jesus guarantees eternal security for all who have believed and given eternal life.
I've kept asking the other poster for an explanation of what was Jesus telling Israel in John 10:28a, but no answers. Just deflections.
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justbyfaith
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If anyone is committing iniquity, they are in danger of Jesus saying to them on the day of judgment, "I never knew you." Matthew 7:13-23, Matthew 13:41-42.
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