Salvation is through faith alone.

[Bible Highlighter]

And nice try Jason, I’m not promoting disobedience. Neither is anyone who holds to sola fide.

So you believe that ever since you came to the faith that you have never sinned?
If you say that you are eternally saved by having a belief on Jesus alone, this means that you are saying that you are saved even in brief moments when you were in disobedience to God? Unless of course you have perfectly obeyed God since you came to the faith and have never sinned once. To say that you have fallen into a sin and then say you are still saved is no different than a person who says they can sin all the time and are saved by God's grace by having a belief on Jesus. It does not take lots of sin to be a bad guy. It only takes one sin. Do you believe that you Christians always sin every week? If so, this makes matters worse for you.

Repentance is shown true when a person brings forth fruits worthy of repentance. But if we bring forth bad fruit, then how exactly did we repent and or say we were sorry to the Lord? Does our act of crying out to God for forgiveness really matter if we go back to the vomit again and again? Granted, maybe you believe a saint walks perfectly obedient to God; But if such is the case, then why are you destroying the foundation of the necessity of doing that which is good as a part of salvation? For the alternative is doing bad while on under God's grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Like I said you believe Gods grace and Christ’s merits are only a “help” in WORKING for salvation. How are you any different than those Paul condemned and exposed as enemies of the gospel?

Pay a little closer attention to which "Law" or "works" Paul was referring to. If you were to look at the context, Paul was condemning the Law of Moses and not all law (or the commands given by Jesus Christ and His followers). Paul was also referring to "Works Alone Salvationism" and not the necessity of "works of faith" that follow God's saving grace. There is a huge difference. Works Alone Salvationism eliminates God's grace and the necessity of works that following a person accepting Jesus as their Savior is in harmony with God's grace.

How do we know? Just read 1 John 1:7, Hebrews 5:9, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

 

[justbyfaith]

How can you obey if you say you are a justified sinner? In other words, that would be like a person declaring they are fat even when their body is skinny and they work out and eat healthy.

It would be like declaring that I am "phat".

Folks who continue in sin on some level (because they say we are justified sinners by faith) is taking the words of Jesus and His followers out of context.

Please show how the context of the following scriptures deny the reality of what they say: Romans 3:23, Galatians 6:13, 1 John 1:8, Psalms 51:3, Jeremiah 17:9, Genesis 6:5-7, Genesis 8:21, Galatians 3:22, etc.

We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). How does that work in the Belief Alone + nothing type gospel?

The short answer is that it doesn’t work.

That scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, not to work for it.

To say that you have fallen into a sin and then say you are still saved is no different than a person who says they can sin all the time and are saved by God's grace by having a belief on Jesus.

I wouldn't want to be you. Because Jesus didn't pay the penalty for your sins. If Jesus comes back and/or you die and you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you are basically going to go to hell from what I can determine of your theology.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. How does that work again in your belief?

The rich young ruler had kept the commandments from his youth. What did he still lack? he simply didn't understand that he was a sinner. Jesus hit him with the law to show him the reality of what he was denying in his heart (see Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:24-25, Psalms 19:7, Galatians 2:16).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It would be like declaring that I am "phat".

Yeah, sorry. That statement makes no sense.
It is like you are admitting to how your belief is illogical.

Please show how the context of the following scriptures deny the reality of what they say: Romans 3:23,

While Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to all people because all have sinned at one point in their life, for the believer, this would be primarily in reference to their past old life (See Ephesians 2:2-3, Colossians 3:5-7). No doubt you believe this applies to the believer as in reference to also his current present walk with God, too (Hence, why you want to falsely say you are a justified sinner).

But if you were to believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 applies to the believer in his current present walk with God, then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to the current present walk of the believer, too. What does Romans 3:11 say?

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:11).​

So basically if you believe Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 apply to the current walk with God in how they always sin, then you must also believe that the believer (who walks with God) has no understanding and they do not seek after God, too. Do you believe the body of Christ has no understanding and they do not seek after God?

See. This is why your belief does not work. You are not reading things in context, my friend.

Galatians 6:13,

You are quoting a verse on "Circumcision Salvationism" and you don't even realize it.
Again, please. Just please read Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Please just read carefully these verses.

1 John 1:8,

This verse is commonly used by many as a banner flag to justify sin on some level.
3 verses you have to read in context here.

1. 1 John 1:10 says, "If we say that we have not sinned (PAST TENSE), we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." This is saying that if we deny we have ever sinned EVER. Obviously we both do not believe that way. We both agree that we have sinned as a part of our old lives as unbelievers. So 1 John 1:8 is speaking in a similar way but in the present tense. It is saying a person is denying the existence of sin. Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion. OSAS proponents do not think they are under the penalty of sin when they do sin because Jesus paid for their future sin by their having a belief on Jesus. But John corrects this thinking by telling the brethren to confess their sin in order to be forgiven of sin (See 1 John 1:9). This confession of sin is in view or context to forsaking sin (or walking in the light, i.e. keeping God's commandments - See 1 John 1:7).

2. 1 John 2:26 gives us the clue that John is warning the brethren about certain individuals who are trying to seduce them. 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren not to think like these false gnostics or individuals. We can see by 1 John 1:10 that they denied the reality of sin's existence. 1 John 1:8 is a warning not to think this way.

3. 1 John 2:4 says that person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. So if your interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture. You cannot always be sinning and yet also declare you are keeping His commandments. It would be a contradiction. Jesus says you cannot serve two masters.

I am going to reply to the rest of what you said in another post because I remember you saying you do not read long posts.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The rich young ruler had kept the commandments from his youth. What did he still lack? he simply didn't understand that he was a sinner. Jesus hit him with the law to show him the reality of what he was denying in his heart (see Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:24-25, Psalms 19:7, Galatians 2:16).

No. That was not the point Jesus was trying to make. Read the end of Matthew 19. Nowhere does Jesus say what you are saying here. That is you adding to Scripture to what Jesus said. If you were to read the end of Matthew 19, you would see that forsaking things as a part of everlasting life was the point Jesus was trying to make and the disciples were able to obey this command. In Luke 19:1-10, when Zacchaeus had said he was willing to give away half of his goods, Jesus said to him essentially that salvation had come to his house that day. For have you not read things in your Bible that says,

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

23 "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it" (Luke 9:23-24).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Galatians 3:22

This is talking about coming to the faith or how we are ultimately made right with God. It is talking about how we are initially saved and ultimately saved.
Paul was trying to refute Circumcision Salvationism.

3 "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:" (Galatians 2:3-4).​

Obviously if a person believes they have to be circumcised in order to be first saved, they are denying God's grace as the basis or foundation of their faith. It would be Works Alone Salvationism and wrongfully going back to the whole of the Law of Moses (i.e. all 613 Old Laws - contractually speaking).

For if Billy Bob was buying a house and he wanted the contract on his home to be re-written to include new things, the old contract would no longer be binding anymore (even if there were certain things in that contract that would appear to be the same). They would have to go by the new contract on his home. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Why? Because it is a new contract or New Covenant (i.e. New Agreement) that was made in Yeshua's blood.

That scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, not to work for it.

The context is not deliberation of trying to figure things out but the context is obedience. Paul says that they have obeyed not only his presence but also even more so in his absence.

Also, if all we need is a belief on Jesus to be saved, then there is nothing to fear. There is no cause for trembling or working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Again, Philippians 2:12 does not work in light of the "Belief Alone" type faith because it is the kind of faith that is the exact opposite of fearing God and trembling before Him. One can sin and still be saved. No need to fear God or tremble (No need to worry about if your hand is caught in the cookie jar). But if you were to read and believe Philippians 2:12 plainly, and believe it, you would see that your belief here is simply one that does not work.

Jesus didn't pay the penalty for your sins.

I believe Jesus pays the penalty for my sins based on faith and the works of faith (that is a natural result and or cause of faith). I also believe Jesus (GOD) is the One who does the good work through me, too. We can see again in 1 John 1:7, Hebrews 5:9, and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 that works is a part of salvation and or what Christ has done for us.

If Jesus comes back and/or you die and you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you are basically going to go to hell from what I can determine of your theology.

It is written,

"Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life"
(Revelation 2:10).​

 

[justbyfaith]

No. That was not the point Jesus was trying to make.

It was indeed the point that Jesus was making to the rich young ruler.

If you were to read the end of Matthew 19, you would see that forsaking things as a part of everlasting life was the point Jesus was trying to make and the disciples were able to obey this command.

See Luke 14:33 (kjv). You must obey this in order to be saved. And the moment you do, that means you will not be doing any more computer work.

Also, if all we need is a belief on Jesus to be saved, then there is nothing to fear.

Exactly (1 John 4:18, Romans 4:16).

 

[justbyfaith]

It is written, "Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).

Your sin is ever before you (Psalms 51:3).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was indeed the point that Jesus was making to the rich young ruler.

No it is not. Please quote to me the exact words of Jesus in Matthew 19 that says what you are saying.

See Luke 14:33 (kjv). You must obey this in order to be saved. And the moment you do, that means you will not be doing any more computer work.

Yet, Zacchaeus was told that salvation had come to his house and he just was willing to give up half of his goods (See Luke 19:1-10).

Also, Scripture records men like Jason, and others who still had their homes or houses. In Acts 2, they were not told to give up their homes and forsake them. Instead some of them broke bread house to house.

It's talking about how we need to go out to all nations and preach the gospel and teach them everything the Lord commanded them (making disciples).

But obviously that takes time to become well learned yourself in the things of God. A person needs to pray and seek the guidance of God in which places to go by God's leading. In other words, I believe some of God's commands were given to a believer to fulfill over the period of their lifetime. Many Christians cannot go from zero to sixty overnight. It takes time with God working in their life. But there are grievous sins that Christians cannot do and claim they have a right to enter God's Kingdom (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 3:15).

Exactly (1 John 4:18,

How do you perfect love so that there is no fear?

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:5-6).​

So you have to keep His Word in order to be made perfect in love (Whereby a believer will not then fear God and His judgment by the fact that they may be sinning). I mean, why do you think the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom? It's because that is how a person's faith first starts out. They have to learn how to obey God.

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
(2 Corinthians 7:1).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your sin is ever before you (Psalms 51:3).

Uh, David is saying this when he is seeking the Lord's forgiveness over his sins of adultery and murder. It is a prayer of forgiveness. This is not talking about the aftermath of his prayer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 4:16.

It's talking about the Law of Moses.

Context.

"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" (Romans 3:1).

Did the Jew obey the commands of Jesus? No.
Is circumcision a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers? No.

It's why we are to serve in newness of spirit and NOT in the OLDNESS of the letter.

"...we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

It's because Paul is fighting against those trying to be saved by the Law of Moses or circumcision. But again, you have taken Paul's words out of context and have decided to make them about how we are not under any kind of Law salvation wise.

 

[DM25]

Why isn't the Devil saved? Surely he believes in God, and knows God will be victorious (from Revelation, "for he knows he has but a short time,") and he knows the Holy Scripture, as showcased in Christ's Temptation in the Desert.

What makes you different than Satan?

Umm because humans are different from fallen angels? Is this a serious question? You are assuming humans have the same hearts from satan. We are saved by grace through faith alone, period.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Umm because humans are different from fallen angels? Is this a serious question? You are assuming humans have the same hearts from satan. We are saved by grace through faith alone, period.

So angels don't have free will, and God creates them evil? Are they not fallen angels?

 

[DM25]

Good works, repentance, obedience, etc. are all simply evidence of salvation. We do those things BECAUSE we are saved and regenerated (born again) and it comes from the holy spirit and our love for Jesus, not by our own strength. We don't do these things to get saved. That's also why I don't believe born-again Christians can lose their salvation. Because I don't believe someone who was truly born-again can just leave the faith and reject Christ later on. They may backslide, maybe their faith will weaken a bit, but they will always come out stronger on the other side. God keeps his promises. What makes following Christ unique is we are saved by faith, and the entire salvation process comes from faith alone and faith is of outmost importance. Because without walking in the spirit with faith, you won't even be able to do any good works. God told me just how important it is to remain faithful and walk in the spirit and not be binded into religion, because then our faith weakens and we rely on our own works and flesh rather than the power of Christ saving us.

 

[DM25]

So angels don't have free will, and God creates them evil? Are they not fallen angels?

Angels are completely different from humans... Having free will does NOT make them the same as humans. To think that demons and humans are the same in terms of God's call of faith in Christ is ridiculous. Satan spoke to God directly, he was in heaven with him. He is not a human. Lucifer has existed before we have even been created. God made the call for our faith to save us AFTER Lucifer betrayed God. So that is a terrible comparison.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Angels are completely different from humans... Having free will does NOT make them the same as humans. To think that demons and humans are the same in terms of God's call of faith in Christ is ridiculous. Satan spoke to God directly, he was in heaven with him. He is not a human. Lucifer has existed before we have even been created. God made the call for our faith to save us AFTER Lucifer betrayed God. So that is a terrible comparison.

Was Adam not in God's presence, speaking to Him directly before the Fall?

 

[DM25]

Was Adam not in God's presence, speaking to Him directly before the Fall?

And? So your argument on humans and angels being the same falls on having similar traits and circumstances? Do you realize that's like me saying humans are the same as dogs because we both have eyes and we can both move? We as humans were created differently from angels, we are not the same! Our faith in God and expectation is completely different from the angels. God didn't make the scriptures for angels, he made it for us. He did not say angels are saved by grace through faith, it was written for man to be saved by grace through faith. Again, just because there were similar situations and traits we had with angels doesn't mean we are the same. We are still completely different from fallen angels.

 

[justbyfaith]

No it is not. Please quote to me the exact words of Jesus in Matthew 19 that says what you are saying.

Scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13). Points to ponder: Romans 15:8, Galatians 3:24-25, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7, Galatians 2:16).

How do you perfect love so that there is no fear?

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:5-6).

Abiding is done through faith and results in obedience. Also, it is His perfect love that casts out fear, the fact that we are recipients of it means that we have no reason to ever fear condemnation (John 5:24).

It's because Paul is fighting against those trying to be saved by the Law of Moses or circumcision. But again, you have taken Paul's words out of context and have decided to make them about how we are not under any kind of Law salvation wise.

Actually, the verse that I quoted (Romans 4:16), I did not quote in order to make the point that you think I was trying to make. I quoted it to show that there is no reason to fear. Because salvation is by grace, the promise is sure to all the seed.

 

[justbyfaith]

Uh, David is saying this when he is seeking the Lord's forgiveness over his sins of adultery and murder. It is a prayer of forgiveness. This is not talking about the aftermath of his prayer.

I dare you to pray honestly the prayer in Psalms 51 the next time you sin.