Salvation is an Experience

[servant7777]

So you don’t see yourself as being perfected but as already perfect? You have no sin, no desire to sin? You’re always obedient, with never a stray thought or word; the inside is as clean as the outside, no pride left to struggle with? Harm is never done to neighbor in any way.

I once had an AOG pastor who said that about himself-and I think he believed it. Later he would commit marital infidelity-and it split his church, among other things.

Regarding Apostle Paul, he did those things to have lover perfected in him, so too did all the Apostles who taught this message.

Obedient always, to his death, ( to all the Apostles deaths) making full proof of the ministry and by making no offence to anyone for that.

Always speaking right.

God took the pride away from them too.



Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

 

[fhansen]

Regarding Apostle Paul, he did those things to have lover perfected in him, so too did all the Apostles who taught this message.

Obedient always, to his death, ( to all the Apostles deaths) making full proof of the ministry and by making no offence to anyone for that.

Always speaking right.

God took the pride away from them too.



Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

It sounds a lot like a continuous struggle and striving, with an awareness of the need for vigilance and perseverance. Not so sure about absolute perfection but he’d probably come as close as possible I’d bet.

 

[servant7777]

Perfection is Gods love in us, it is believing He can abundantly well in us, for us, to be for others.


Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, ACCORDING TO THE RICHES OF HIS GLORY, to be strengthened with MIGHT BY HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN;
17 THAT CHRIST MAY DWELL IN YOUR HEARTS by faith; that ye, being ROOTED AND GROUNDED IN LOVE,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And TO KNOW THE LOVE OF CHRIST, WHICH PASSETH KNOWLEDGE, that ye might be FILLED WITH ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD.
20 Now UNTO HIM THAT IS ABLE TO DO EXCEEDINGLY ABUNDANTLY ABOVE ALL THAT WE ASK OR THINK ACCORDING TO THE POWER THAT WORKETH IN US
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

Perfection is Gods love in us, it is believing He can abundantly well in us, for us, to be for others.

And yet love can be perfected. So it can't be quite correct to say that perfection is Gods love in us...And love is not directly tied to our level of belief in it or Him. We either love or we don't, because of Him, and more or less perfectly.

 

[servant7777]

And yet love can be perfected. So can't be quite correct to say that perfection is Gods love in us...And love is not directly tied to our level of belief in it or Him. We either love or we don't, because of Him, and more or less perfectly.

God gives His love into us, which is directly given by our belief in the rising of Christ from the dead ( righteous belief Romans 10:9-10.) done to be a better covenant than the first covenant of law and not faith.



Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.



Then remember the testimony. The law made nothing perfect. The bringing of the hope of Christ did.

The first covenant had a fault, (nobody was made perfect and continued to die in unbelief in sins in the law) as they constantly had a conscience of sin.



Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;



Now in a good conscience( believing that Christ rose form the dead to take our sins away) we are perfected for ever by that sanctification.

They without us are not made perfect ( who were in the law and who did not see the promise of Christ rising from the dead fulfilled)

Now the ones who believe in God being just and the justifier, are made perfect. ( receiving the Holy Spirit which is the love of Christ in our hearts)




Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,






The love of God was not perfected then in the first covenant, as just testified.

Now it is, as testified:


Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

 

[servant7777]

love can be perfected, and it was perfected from the first to the second, covenants, to be now in us ( written in the heart.) ( no longer written in the letter and on tables of stone.)



2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[fhansen]

God gives His love into us, which is directly given by our belief in the rising of Christ from the dead ( righteous belief Romans 10:9-10.) done to be a better covenant than the first covenant of law and not faith.

Yes, but simply believing does not equate to or result in perfect love. That's a process; faith, hope, and love can all grow and be confirmed and strengthened as we're challenged tested, refined, etc. They must be "invested", stretched, and exercised. And there's no limit to how man may grow in justice or righteousness, because there's no limit to God, whose image we're being transformed into.

 

[servant7777]

Yes, but simply believing does not equate to or result in perfect love. That's a process; faith, hope, and love can all grow and be confirmed and strengthened as we're challenged tested, refined, etc. They must be "invested", stretched, and exercised.

If we do not believe the second covenant is perfect and without fault, we will be in faults.


Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

[servant7777]

All is through believing in a good conscience that Christ rose from the dead, or we are yet in an imperfect conscience of unbelief ( all sill in the first covenant are in that dead conscience)



Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[servant7777]

Faith hope and love are all given by God.



We have nothing that we were not given by God.




Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

[servant7777]

Yes, but simply believing does not equate to or result in perfect love. That's a process; faith, hope, and love can all grow and be confirmed and strengthened as we're challenged tested, refined, etc. They must be "invested", stretched, and exercised. And there's no limit to how man may grow in justice or righteousness, because there's no limit to God, whose image we're being transformed into.

Faith cant be stretched to believe Christ rose from the dead, that is what faith is, and that also believes in the love of God, and is why we love our neighbour a ourselves.

Hope is given by the new lively hope of Christ rising from the dead( or we have no hope, if of men we have hope only in this life)

Love is by Christ laying His life down for us, and we lay our lives down through the very same love ( there is no other and it cant grow, it is the faith of Christ we are to know.



Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[servant7777]

whose image we're being transformed into.

The Jews are blinded with the vail upon their heart:

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


Now we believe in the Spirit of the Lord ( Jesus Christ) to give us liberty.

Now we behold with an open face ( no longer blinded with the vail) to see the glory of the Lord ( in the face of Jesus Christ) to be changed into the same image ( as Christ) from His glory to our glory by the Spirit of the Lord.


Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[servant7777]

It's easy when you know the scriptures and are taught by Jesus Christ, Himself.

Churches are the trap for everybody on earth and I testified to give another way.

On top of highlighting the deceivers covering the entire forum, but anybody can repent, I am not against anyone.

 

[fhansen]

Faith cant be stretched to believe Christ rose from the dead, that is what faith is, and that also believes in the love of God, and is why we love our neighbour a ourselves.

Hope is given by the new lively hope of Christ rising from the dead( or we have no hope, if of men we have hope only in this life)

Love is by Christ laying His life down for us, and we lay our lives down through the very same love ( there is no other and it cant grow, it is the faith of Christ we are to know.

As a line in a recent movie says, "Stop talking." Start listening, seeking, studying more. You've got a ways to go. Growing in grace and knowledge (2 Pet 3:18) is to grow in those virtues among other things. You don't know of what you speak. You just quote as if you know. Give it up.

 

[servant7777]

As a line in a recent movie says, "Stop talking." Start listening, seeking, studying. You've got a ways to go. Growing in grace and knowledge (2 Pet 3:18) is to grow in those virtues among other things. You don't know of what you speak. You just quote as if you know. Give it up.

The grace of God gives the knowledge of Christ( rising from the dead) offered in spotless without blemish blood to purge our conscience, to be as told here, to be found without spot and blameless

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[servant7777]

As I said, it is easy when Christ teaches you and you know the scriptures.

 

[servant7777]

It is the grace of God that gives us that knowledge of Christ ( His love of sacrificing Himself for us) then we are saved by believing He rose from the dead.

What else do you say you can grow in, when that covers all things.

Because once you know that knowledge of Christ( His love that passes all understanding) you also walk in the same love of Christ in you, graced unto you, which is the Holy Spirit given to us by Christ dying in the flesh to release the Spirit ( to us)

 

[servant7777]

I take it you have no intention of hearing a single word/ of repenting. So be it.

 

[servant7777]

Growing in grace and knowledge (2 Pet 3:18) is to grow in those virtues among other things.

The faith God gives by hearing the word of faith ( in a meek way) is God shining in our hearts to give us the faith of the knowledge of the Son of God, knowing His love ( dying and rising for us) is to know the love of Christ that passes knowledge, and is then the knowledge of Christ.

Adding charity ( putting on charity, putting on Christ) is so we never come behind in the knowledge of Christ ( as the knowledge of Christ is belief He rose and it is knowing His love)




2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[fhansen]

As I said, it is easy when Christ teaches you and you know the scriptures.

It is the grace of God that gives us that knowledge of Christ ( His love of sacrificing Himself for us) then we are saved by believing He rose from the dead.

You just speak about concepts you've read, not that you've necessarily assimilated and experienced. To know Christ is a huge topic; that grace, itself, and the knowledge it gives is a never-ending process. We're being transformed into His image-and the more we are the more we know Him, and then the more we believe in, hope in and love Him. That love is fathomless-it has no end.