Salvation is already done.

Kenny'sID

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The fact that we can be saved from many different things ....is the fact That we can be saved again. Look at Israel...how many times did GOD deliver them? And How are we saved today in this life? Why if we remain in Him we bring forth fruit unto life?
How are we saved today from our sins? And How were they who were under the law saved from theirs? Were they not saved by ritual repeated washings? Kept under this tutor until faith came? -- continued--

That would be a lot clearer if you would answer all the questions you are asking clearly, and in detail.

Otherwise, if some don't get what you are getting at, all they have after reading it is a more questions. :)

I have't been able to determine if you are in agreement with the OP or not.
 
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Kevin Snow

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There are all kinds of works, just as one can be saved from many different things.

A Treadmill can be Salvation for a very fat person, right?
And you also could have received the treadmill as a gift, right?

But if the fat man does not work out on the treadmill will his life be saved from it? Will He lose weight by it? No!
Yet it still could be His salvation

Think of Jesus in almost the same light
What He did on the cross for us, we did not earn. Did He not conquer death?
You Didn't earn what He did to become the eternal source of salvation. But He is the source for all who believe.

Now that you have been given freely this source what will you do with it? Recall Life is in His Son.
We are called to work out our salvation.
Work out what we have been given freely.
Meaning live according to the call....run the race as one would if they were trying to run a race to win a prize.
Thank you, it is just that simple. We still have work to do.
 
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corinth77777

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And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; kjv


After he was perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him, csb


Suffering made Jesus perfect, and now he can save forever all who obey him. CEV


When he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him, GNT
 
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Kenny'sID

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And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; kjv


After he was perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him, csb


Suffering made Jesus perfect, and now he can save forever all who obey him. CEV


When he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him, GNT

Well done.
 
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BobRyan

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Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Galacians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrew 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


John 15:4-6
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:20-23
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 2:14-26
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? your works, my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Great texts!... nice!


Works are required as well as faith for salvation, and salvation CAN be lost.

good works are the result of salvation and as you say -- salvation can be lost and your Romans 11 text proves it.

Romans 11:20-23
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/QUOTE]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Salvation is already done.
I have no time to waste with the wisdom of men that will throw away God’s word using man made wisdom to dismiss what they don’t want to believe. So I will not waste my time responding to those who pursue works salvation..........

Salvation is a gift. (Eph 2:8 You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God.) You did not save yourself, well if you did not save yourself that in and of itself tells us that salvation has nothing to do with what we do in order to obtain it outside of believing it. Anything that you have to do in order to receive a gift makes it a trade and not a gift.....
I know what you mean about wasting time, but sometimes it is worth it.

Ephe 2:8 is a good verse to bring up concerning gift.....
The gift isn't exactly free, as it was bought thru the blood of our Lord Jesus the Christ [Reve 5:9] on the cross as prophecied to the Israelites and Gentiles in the Hebrew OT........

Ephe 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift/ dwron<1435> of God,

Isaiah 52:3
For thus says YAHWEH, "ye were sold for nothing and ye will be redeemed without money." [Reve 5:9]

1 Corinthians 7:23
Of value/honor ye are purchased/hgorasqhte <59>,
no be becoming! bond-servants of men
.

Revelation 5:9
and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst purchase/hgorasaV <59> Us to God in Thy blood,
out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation
.

Ephe 2:8 Although no money would be involved, the price of redemption would be high. God would send His “Servant” who would act wisely and be raised up and highly exalted. (Isaiah 52:13-15) His servant would be marred and disfigured, beyond that of any man. He would not be attractive, but would be despised and rejected by men. He would be a man of sorrows and understand much suffering. This “Servant” would take up our sorrows and bear our infirmities. He would be smitten by God and afflicted, pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our sins and evil. (Isaiah 53:1-7) His punishment would bring us peace and His wounds would heal us! What a redemption by this Servant-Redeemer who was willing to suffer and die to pay a price for us!

Ephes 2:8
And that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Which of the two things is meant - salvation or faith? The grammatical structure and the analogy of the passage favor the former view, "Your salvation is not of yourselves," though many able men have taken the latter.
The apostle is so anxious to bring out the great distinguishing doctrine of grace that he puts it in all lights, affirms it positively, contrasts it with its opposite, and emphasizes it by repetition.
It is a gift, not a purchase; a free gift, without money and without price; what would never have been yours, but for the generosity of God. It is very usual in the New Testament thus to represent salvation; cf. our Lord's words to Nicodemus (John 3:16); to the woman of Samaria (John 4:14);
St. Paul's "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift" (2 Corinthians 9:15); "The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23); and 1 John 5:11, "God gave unto us eternal life, and the life is in his Son." This usage confirms the view that it is not merely faith, but the whole work and person of Christ which faith receives, that is meant here as the "gift of God."
 
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Invalidusername

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It's sad how there's no concrete answer either way. Half of scripture seems to say you can lose your salvation and the other half seems to say you can't. I guess focusing on this is not important but really we need to focus on how to live the correct Christian life and let God do the judging.

If the Holy Spirit is calling you to do something, don't ignore Him. That's my biggest advice and that's one of the mistakes I've made in the past. Live your life in a state of continuous repentance and trust in Christ's sacrifice and maybe when we make it past the gates of life, we will find out the true answer but right now there are too many unknowns and these unknowns are distracting us from what's really important and that is to serve God and shed all sin from your life.

I wish there was an answer to this but I must finally submit to the fact that I don't know if salvation can or cannot be lost. I am on the fence and probably always will be. But I know it is dangerous to put faith in your works to save you. It is Jesus' death on the cross that can save you and nothing else.
 
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lamb7

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Great texts!... nice!




good works are the result of salvation and as you say -- salvation can be lost and your Romans 11 text proves it.

Romans 11:20-23
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
[/QUOTE]

This is going to sound very over the top but this thought always comes to mind when I hear people state they are truley set on the belief we can loose salvation: if we can loose salvation the best thing that could happen is that we die soon after being saved so we stay saved.. that statement I just made seems false to me so I believe we are His and kept His or we belived in vain. How can we have peace and joy in this life with not knowing we are His?
 
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corinth77777

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It's sad how there's no concrete answer either way. Half of scripture seems to say you can lose your salvation and the other half seems to say you can't. I guess focusing on this is not important but really we need to focus on how to live the correct Christian life and let God do the judging.

If the Holy Spirit is calling you to do something, don't ignore Him. That's my biggest advice and that's one of the mistakes I've made in the past. Live your life in a state of continuous repentance and trust in Christ's sacrifice and maybe when we make it past the gates of life, we will find out the true answer but right now there are too many unknowns and these unknowns are distracting us from what's really important and that is to serve God and shed all sin from your life.

I wish there was an answer to this but I must finally submit to the fact that I don't know if salvation can or cannot be lost. I am on the fence and probably always will be. But I know it is dangerous to put faith in your works to save you. It is Jesus' death on the cross that can save you and nothing else.
I don't think the Bible ever mentions losing salvation...If it does give a scripture.
One, what or who is salvation
Does Jesus live forever to interceed for those who come to Him? If He does how can you lose Him? Now can you have a loss of life....in My opinion :Yes for....you can believe in Him Or perish...
 
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Invalidusername

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I don't think the Bible ever mentions losing salvation...If it does give a scripture.
One, what or who is salvation
Does Jesus live forever to interceed for those who come to Him? If He does how can you lose Him? Now can you have a loss of life....in My opinion :Yes for....you can believe in Him Or perish...

The Bible continuously warns to "not believe in vain" and how God will destroy those who rebel against Him.
 
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BobRyan

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Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

This is going to sound very over the top but this thought always comes to mind when I hear people state they are truley set on the belief we can loose salvation:

As scripture appears to be

Gal 5:4 "you have been severed from Christ... you are fallen from grace"

Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

I don't think the Bible ever mentions losing salvation.. .

It would take a lot of "creative writing" to get out of those texts just listed.

if we can loose salvation the best thing that could happen is that we die soon after being saved so we stay saved..

Or die as infants...
or never born at all and ...

Consider this "if the only goal was to keep Adam from falling -- put no tree of knowledge in the garden".

Consider this "if the only goal at the flood was to save souls from drowning -- God should have done it like the movies... start the rain and thunder FIRST then wait a bit for everyone to run in the ark... then close the door"

Consider this "all the wicked are raised to life in Rev 20 after the 1000 years and are then faced with the judgment and the lake of fire. A great many wicked will be reconsidering-their-choice right about then" -- yet in Rev 22 we are told that the time had already come where "let him who is filthy be filthy still.. let him who is just be just still".

The door of the ark closes 7 days before the flood comes. The wicked pounding on the closed door as the rain was falling - were "reconsidering" their former choice - but God was not open to the idea of "opening the door".

The door of salvation closes in Rev 15:8 just before the 7 last plagues of Rev 16. Not during the plagues.. not after them.

God did not make robots and has no Gospel of the form that marches all the lost into heaven at the point of a gun.

Trust God ... believe the Bible.

He has sovereignly chosen a free-will system of "Choice" where both the saved and the lost are given choices.
 
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lamb7

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Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again



As scripture appears to be

Gal 5:4 "you have been severed from Christ... you are fallen from grace"

Matthew 18
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”



It would take a lot of "creative writing" to get out of those texts just listed.



Or die as infants...
or never born at all and ...

Consider this "if the only goal was to keep Adam from falling -- put no tree of knowledge in the garden".

Consider this "if the only goal at the flood was to save souls from drowning -- God should have done it like the movies... start the rain and thunder FIRST then wait a bit for everyone to run in the ark... then close the door"

Consider this "all the wicked are raised to life in Rev 20 after the 1000 years and are then faced with the judgment and the lake of fire. A great many wicked will be reconsidering-their-choice right about then" -- yet in Rev 22 we are told that the time had already come where "let him who is filthy be filthy still.. let him who is just be just still".

The door of the ark closes 7 days before the flood comes. The wicked pounding on the closed door as the rain was falling - were "reconsidering" their former choice - but God was not open to the idea of "opening the door".

The door of salvation closes in Rev 15:8 just before the 7 last plagues of Rev 16. Not during the plagues.. not after them.

God did not make robots and has no Gospel of the form that marches all the lost into heaven at the point of a gun.

Trust God ... believe the Bible.

He has sovereignly chosen a free-will system of "Choice" where both the saved and the lost are given choices.

Yes thank you for that post I considered that as well.
 
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razzelflabben

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Feel free to peruse my study guides at BCBSR - The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources: Bible Study Guides for Christians where I've reconciled all such scripture to conclude that salvation is by faith apart from works, just as it is written, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"
why pray tell would you want me to go read your study guide? Would you be willing to pursue my study guides? Especially since I am NOT saying we are saved by works nor are most of those that are on this thread!!!!! My entire point was that if people stop judging others and start listening they might discover that they are much closer in understanding than they think and your response is that I should pursue your study materials...honestly, that sounds not only prideful on your part but hauntingly like someone who refuses to take time to quiet themselves long enough to listen....I wonder why when I say that salvation is through belief in Jesus the Christ and that alone while we do good works consistent with that salvation, an expression of our Love and servitude to Christ, I am accused of works righteousness and told to study your materials to see where I am in error because we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ not by works....lol oh well...moving on to bigger and better things and people willing to listen.
 
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razzelflabben

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It's sad how there's no concrete answer either way. Half of scripture seems to say you can lose your salvation and the other half seems to say you can't. I guess focusing on this is not important but really we need to focus on how to live the correct Christian life and let God do the judging.
Don't you think that if man considers that there are no concrete answers for one side or the other, that maybe, just maybe the right answer falls somewhere in the middle of the two extremes?!

For example on the idea of eternal salvation...yes, we can reject the gift, some equate it to being "unborn" however we can in essence commit spiritual suicide but at the same time, God holds us so securely that nothing and no one can pull us out of His care. We do not loss our right to choose but at the same time no one else has the authority or ability to remove us...that is a compromising solution that reconciles all the passages into one understanding....so maybe, just maybe, both extremes are right and wrong at the same time? ! ? !
If the Holy Spirit is calling you to do something, don't ignore Him. That's my biggest advice and that's one of the mistakes I've made in the past. Live your life in a state of continuous repentance and trust in Christ's sacrifice and maybe when we make it past the gates of life, we will find out the true answer but right now there are too many unknowns and these unknowns are distracting us from what's really important and that is to serve God and shed all sin from your life.
amen
I wish there was an answer to this but I must finally submit to the fact that I don't know if salvation can or cannot be lost. I am on the fence and probably always will be. But I know it is dangerous to put faith in your works to save you. It is Jesus' death on the cross that can save you and nothing else.
but this goes back to what I started out saying....just because we were created for good works and those good works finish or complete us as God intended does NOT mean anyone is saying that we are saved by those works...it's all about listening which still seems to be lacking on this thread.
 
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☦Marius☦

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This specific verse is not talking about Christians but it is talking about God cutting off the Jews and cleaving on the Gentiles. It's easily misunderstood in that content however.

Also we saved by salvation AND works? That is also not Biblical.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

However the rest of your verses definitely do seem to warn about the dangers of falling away. However we must trust Christ to keep us. It is better to rely on Christ rather than our own ability because we WILL fail.

Actually it's a warning against the Gentiles, which is why it makes a distinction between the natural branches and the new. It says if God won't spare even the natural branches then he definitely won't hesitate to not spare the new.
 
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This is going to sound very over the top but this thought always comes to mind when I hear people state they are truley set on the belief we can loose salvation: if we can loose salvation the best thing that could happen is that we die soon after being saved so we stay saved.. that statement I just made seems false to me so I believe we are His and kept His or we belived in vain. How can we have peace and joy in this life with not knowing we are His?[/QUOTE]
We don't conjure up peace and joy - it is granted to us - and this is the evidence we are His. John 14:27 Neh 8:10.
 
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razzelflabben

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This is going to sound very over the top but this thought always comes to mind when I hear people state they are truley set on the belief we can loose salvation: if we can loose salvation the best thing that could happen is that we die soon after being saved so we stay saved.. that statement I just made seems false to me so I believe we are His and kept His or we belived in vain. How can we have peace and joy in this life with not knowing we are His?
We don't conjure up peace and joy - it is granted to us - and this is the evidence we are His. John 14:27 Neh 8:10. [/QUOTE]
the other problem with the above claims is that to "loose" salvation is a term that is misconstrued by many and inflated into something it doesn't mean...
 
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Cheylynn

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I don't think the Bible ever mentions losing salvation...If it does give a scripture.
One, what or who is salvation
Does Jesus live forever to interceed for those who come to Him? If He does how can you lose Him? Now can you have a loss of life....in My opinion :Yes for....you can believe in Him Or perish...
Agreed: Salvation is not a thing to be had, it is Jesus Christ. It is not a ticket we have been given that takes us directly to go like in the game Monopoly - but instead is the way, truth and life - and He must be lived - daily in us - or we die. Like the branches - that perish if not abiding in the vine.
 
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lamb7

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Agreed: Salvation is not a thing to be had, it is Jesus Christ. It is not a ticket we have been given that takes us directly to go like in the game Monopoly - but instead is the way, truth and life - and He must be lived - daily in us - or we die. Like the branches - that perish if not abiding in the vine.


Yes and He gives us His Spirit to help us walk with Him.
 
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lamb7

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This is going to sound very over the top but this thought always comes to mind when I hear people state they are truley set on the belief we can loose salvation: if we can loose salvation the best thing that could happen is that we die soon after being saved so we stay saved.. that statement I just made seems false to me so I believe we are His and kept His or we belived in vain. How can we have peace and joy in this life with not knowing we are His?
We don't conjure up peace and joy - it is granted to us - and this is the evidence we are His. John 14:27 Neh 8:10. [/QUOTE]


Yes I agree it is not by our own means
.
 
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