Salvation is already done.

[112358]

And there are those who may claim to hear, but don't have ears to hear, having been caught up with a performance based salvation concept, thinking that they can be saved by their own compliance to law. Like when the man came up to Jesus and said, "good teacher" and Jesus responded that there is no one good but God, but as the man thought he could be justified by law Jesus challenged him along those lines.

The salvation by works Christian hear Jesus making salvation contingent upon compliance to law. But they fail to hear Jesus say "No one is good but God". For the rest of us with ears, Jesus is using the law, just as Paul said, not as a means to justification but rather to bring conviction of sin to drive this man to God grace. The legalists, good in their own mind, have yet to be challenged enough to drive them to abandon salvation by works and to embrace the grace of the gospel whereby salvation is a free gift apart works.

Ugh. See post #28

 

[razzelflabben]

And there are those who may claim to hear, but don't have ears to hear, having been caught up with a performance based salvation concept, thinking that they can be saved by their own compliance to law. Like when the man came up to Jesus and said, "good teacher" and Jesus responded that there is no one good but God, but as the man thought he could be justified by law Jesus challenged him along those lines.

The salvation by works Christian hear Jesus making salvation contingent upon compliance to law. But they fail to hear Jesus say "No one is good but God". For the rest of us with ears, Jesus is using the law, just as Paul said, not as a means to justification but rather to bring conviction of sin to drive this man to God grace. The legalists, good in their own mind, have yet to be challenged enough to drive them to abandon salvation by works and to embrace the grace of the gospel whereby salvation is a free gift apart works.

I would argue that both extremes are not hearing what God is saying...but that was kind of my point in the first place.

We as a people have this horrible tendency to see something someone gets out of perspective and in order to try and correct it we go to the completely opposite extreme thus allowing this pendulum swing when the truth is somewhere in between but we refuse to see or hear or learn the in between because we want to prove we are the learned, just like the Pharisees. Seems to me we would be better served to reconcile all scripture rather than just try to prove one another wrong in our "version" of what they are saying.

 

[fat wee robin]

John the Baptist preached people should produce works worthy of repentance.
Matthew 3:7 (WEB) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance! 9 Don’t think to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I tell you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

If God offers me a chance to repent, should I take it? Should I not wear out my welcome by doing nothing all day? If God wants me to read a Gospel today, I ought to attempt it.

"Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance ".
Can only make a poor guess at what this means . Could you expand a little , thankyou ?

 

[☦Marius☦]

I would argue that both extremes are not hearing what God is saying...but that was kind of my point in the first place.

We as a people have this horrible tendency to see something someone gets out of perspective and in order to try and correct it we go to the completely opposite extreme thus allowing this pendulum swing when the truth is somewhere in between but we refuse to see or hear or learn the in between because we want to prove we are the learned, just like the Pharisees. Seems to me we would be better served to reconcile all scripture rather than just try to prove one another wrong in our "version" of what they are saying.

Agreed. The Orthodox Church has always tried to take a balance stance between faith and works.

I think it's the only way to completely follow the New Testament.

 

[fat wee robin]

What is salvation
What are we saved from
And why are we saved
And can you be saved more than once?
Give scripture

Intelligent question .I hope that there will be real attempts to answer .

 

[razzelflabben]

I fear that there are way more blind Pharisees in the church today, trying to lead the blind than we would be comfortable with if we had eyes to see the truth of scripture as God intended for us to know it.

 

[112358]

I fear that there are way more blind Pharisees in the church today, trying to lead the blind than we would be comfortable with if we had eyes to see the truth of scripture as God intended for us to know it.

I am prepared to accept the charge that I am a pharisee, insofar as I sometimes fail to "practice what I preach". I am a man like any other man. I slip up. I make mistakes. In that way I am, like Paul the great apostle, a "pharisee of pharisees". But that is not the charge most people are making when they use the term. The charge is meant to infer that we are too focused on obedience to God's immutable laws. Christ himself said to do what they said, just not what they did. Matthew 23:3. None of this supports the false doctrines of "saved by grace plus nothing" or OSAS.

 

[razzelflabben]

I am prepared to accept the charge that I am a pharisee, insofar as I sometimes fail to "practice what I preach". I am a man like any other man. I slip up. I make mistakes. In that way I am, like Paul the great apostle, a "pharisee of pharisees". But that is not the charge most people are making when they use the term. The charge is meant to infer that we are too focused on obedience to God's immutable laws. Christ himself said to do what they said, just not what they did. Matthew 23:3. None of this supports the false doctrines of "saved by grace plus nothing" or OSAS.

I pointed fingers at all who take a stand without balancing it with the totality of scripture...that means everyone even if that truth should fall on myself or you or anyone else on this thread which is why we should learn to listen to one another....interesting fact, there are well over 1000 passages that call us to listen....yet very few people ever take the time to close their mouth long enough to hear whether the voice they are listening to is one another or God Himself.

 

[☦Marius☦]

What is salvation
What are we saved from
And why are we saved
And can you be saved more than once?
Give scripture

The only part of this I will respond to is "can you be saved more than once, which is no- because salvation doesn't happen until the end of our lives. We can live times in faith, and times in rebellion, but salvation is in the next life, or damnation. The idea that it is a one time event that happens in a person's life here on Earth is not supported scripturally

(See post 32 & 34 for scripture to back that up)

 

[corinth77777]

The only part of this I will respond to is "can you be saved more than once, which is no- because salvation doesn't happen until the end of our lives. We can live times in faith, and times in rebellion, but salvation is in the next life, or damnation. The idea that it is a one time event that happens in a person's life here on Earth is not supported scripturally

(See post 32 & 34 for scripture to back that up)

The fact that we can be saved from many different things ....is the fact That we can be saved again. Look at Israel...how many times did GOD deliver them? And How are we saved today in this life? Why if we remain in Him we bring forth fruit unto life?
How are we saved today from our sins? And How were they who were under the law saved from theirs? Were they not saved by ritual repeated washings? Kept under this tutor until faith came? -- continued--

 

[bcbsr]

You say this as if you can't do works in faith.
Faith is like a plant, with salvation it's flower.
Works are like the water you give the plant to survive.

You cannot have a flower without the plant,
And you cannot have the plant without water.

This is scripturally supported see post 32 and 34

Got that work. No didn't say you can do works in faith. Rather those who have put their trust in Jesus to save them by faith apart from works go on to do works not in order to be saved but simply because it's the right thing to do

 

[bcbsr]

I would argue that both extremes are not hearing what God is saying...but that was kind of my point in the first place.

We as a people have this horrible tendency to see something someone gets out of perspective and in order to try and correct it we go to the completely opposite extreme thus allowing this pendulum swing when the truth is somewhere in between but we refuse to see or hear or learn the in between because we want to prove we are the learned, just like the Pharisees. Seems to me we would be better served to reconcile all scripture rather than just try to prove one another wrong in our "version" of what they are saying.

Feel free to peruse my study guides at BCBSR - The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources: Bible Study Guides for Christians where I've reconciled all such scripture to conclude that salvation is by faith apart from works, just as it is written, "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

 

[Invalidusername]

The way I understand it is we are saved through Christ's sacrifice, nothing else more. However works PROVE that we have been saved. Kinda like how Jesus said we shall know them by their fruit and works is the fruit that we produce after being saved. However this does not mean a Christian never fails or is a perfect workmanship but the Christian will consistently be sanctified to do good works for God. It is a lifelong process that is guided by God and the Holy Spirit. Works don't save you but they do validate that you have been saved.

 

[Invalidusername]

Romans 11:20-23
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

This specific verse is not talking about Christians but it is talking about God cutting off the Jews and cleaving on the Gentiles. It's easily misunderstood in that content however.

Also we saved by salvation AND works? That is also not Biblical.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

However the rest of your verses definitely do seem to warn about the dangers of falling away. However we must trust Christ to keep us. It is better to rely on Christ rather than our own ability because we WILL fail.

 

[SkyWriting]

Clearly God "knows" about all events in all of time -- but "experience" is very different from "know".

Zero difference is not very different from the same thing.

 

[lamb7]

That's it in a nutshell. How many scriptures in the New Testament teach that we are to do good works?

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. ~Ephesians 2:10

and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. ~1 Timothy 5:10

They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, ~1 Timothy 6:18

but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. ~1 Timothy 2:10

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, ~Titus 2:7

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people ~Titus 3:8

And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful. ~Titus 3:14

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, ~Hebrews 10:24

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. ~Matthew 5:16

that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. ~2 Timothy 3:17

who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. ~Titus 2:14

If you are not zealous for good works then maybe you are not one of his people.

Good post, another thing is works dont save us, but because we are saved and Love God we do things put of love for Him. At least that is what I get from it? God gives us the strength and faith to do good works. Yes we will mess up and miss the mark but we won't do so as we once did as unbelievers.

 

[lamb7]

I believe in Jesus and my sins are forgiven..

now if you'll excuse me, I have tons or inappropriate content to download before I go out for my night at the strip club.

That is funny but on a serious note there are saved people who still struggle with inappropriate content and other addictions. I have dated and known peiple with this issue and it is devastating. Prayers for those who struggle.

 

[corinth77777]

This specific verse is not talking about Christians but it is talking about God cutting off the Jews and cleaving on the Gentiles. It's easily misunderstood in that content however.

Also we saved by salvation AND works? That is also not Biblical.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9.

However the rest of your verses definitely do seem to warn about the dangers of falling away. However we must trust Christ to keep us. It is better to rely on Christ rather than our own ability because we WILL fail.

There is confusion

Is Jesus the source of salvation?
If so we can continually be saved by Him .

How is this possible ? Well subtract the confusion that salvation is always referring to taking away sins, Just so you can have heaven when your physical body dies.

Also subtract the confusion that you remain saved [rescued,delivered] when you don't remain in Him [His teachings] from the present life's circumstances as your physical body is still alive on this earth.

Why did many fall dead in the wilderness? Because they didn't mix what they heard with faith?

Isn't GOD the same GOD that existed in the ancient of days?

If you fear are you saved from fear at the same time? If you hate are you saved from hate at the same time. Or will there be consequences that will stem from those.

And, am I applying salvation above to .....what happens when your physical body dies and leaves this earth? No

Get that out our heads then we may see a little clearer

 

[BobRyan]

Zero difference is not very different from the same thing.

True but "very different" is not "the same thing"

 

[corinth77777]

Good post, another thing is works dont save us, but because we are saved and Love God we do things put of love for Him. At least that is what I get from it? God gives us the strength and faith to do good works. Yes we will mess up and miss the mark but we won't do so as we once did as unbelievers.

There are all kinds of works, just as one can be saved from many different things.

A Treadmill can be Salvation for a very fat person, right?
And you also could have received the treadmill as a gift, right?

But if the fat man does not work out on the treadmill will his life be saved from it? Will He lose weight by it? No!
Yet it still could be His salvation

Think of Jesus in almost the same light
What He did on the cross for us, we did not earn. Did He not conquer death?
You Didn't earn what He did to become the eternal source of salvation. But He is the source for all who believe.

Now that you have been given freely this source what will you do with it? Recall Life is in His Son.
We are called to work out our salvation.
Work out what we have been given freely.
Meaning live according to the call....run the race as one would if they were trying to run a race to win a prize.