Salvation for Non Christian

[littlestar777]

Welcome to CF! Are you in one of those photos?
No one knows the heart like God knows. So your query can not be answered.
Blessings.

Not me but some of my friend. Many very senior Christian said they may go to some place that isn't pleasant in a very word so i gotta disagree for that. Does it make sense a real good people treated so badly? This make me avoiding these specific people too

 

[BobRyan]

we do know this:

Rom 2:13-16 describes the case of non-Christians with no access to the Bible -- where in some cases they are born again saints that do go to heaven because of the blood of Christ that they do not know about.

Rom 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.

Rom 2:
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a violator of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

==================================

This world entered into rebellion against God via the sin of Adam and Eve a Romans 5 reminds us.

But God provided the one-and-only way of escape via the incarnation of God the Son - as the Son of Man - Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:2 "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

John 3:6 - That WHO SOEVER BELIEVES on Him might not perish but should have everlasting life.

You too can choose to accept Christ as your savior - just as they can.

And in some cases where someone has no access at all to scripture or the pure Gospel message - they are still not hopeless. John 16 says the Holy Spirit "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and Judgment", and John 12:32 says through His Spirit Jesus "Draws ALL mankind unto Him" .

All are drawn even though all do not have the written text or even access to the correct Gospel history.

But there is no safety in rebellion - in choosing against God deliberately.

Take a CLOSE LOOK - at this thread - I explain this answer in detail.

If I am wrong about my beliefs - there is NO RISK for me

"we" don't all know that, because not all of us are the gentiles

A lot of us are gentiles - and we can all read what the text says about gentiles with no access to scripture in Romans 2. That is the part we can "all know".

Some of us believe every one shall die in his own sin.

And some of us believe that "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 -- "not just Christians or people with a Bible"

And some of us believe that Jesus "draws ALL mankind unto Him" John 12:32 -- "not just Christians or people with a Bible".

And many believe that Romans 2 is true.

Well that isn't true, because that's not even the "all" that's been drawn... the word "mankind" or "men" has been added by the translators.

In John 12:32 it is an "unqualified" ALL --- no not merely all "men" or "All women" but ALL - no qualifer.

John 12:32 κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.TR
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the Earth, will draw all unto Me.

 

[BobRyan]

Just make it simple. There are only good and bad people. Your example sound like very bad people.

Where is good people going afterlife?

In some religion, merit point is calculated. Jesus good deed or merit points is almost infinite.

Jesus promise to take those who follow Him - to heaven when He appears.

John 14:1-3
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Matt 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Where are these good non Christian people (Teacher, Volunteer, Fire Fighter, etc) going afterlife without salvation ?

Jesus taught that anyone who genuinely seeks to do good he will draw to Himself. God presents the message of love, and people either respond to or deny that message.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

As for firefighters, nurses etc. Although there are good in all people, these same people have bad attributes as well. When I was in hospital recently, the nurses often lied to make things easier for themselves. One wrote down that I had rejected a certain medication, that "I had refused it", just so they did not have to prepare it. We can't judge people based upon their profession, I know some male teachers who only took up the profession due to a large number of female applicants, so they could have relationships with them.

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.​

 

[Ligurian]

I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

There would be no Resurrection of Life if Ιησους had not "saved His people from their sins".

John 15:13-14 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down His life for His friends.[14] Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also whom thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am that they may behold My glory, which thou hast given Me for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.

 

[Ligurian]

Jesus taught that anyone who genuinely seeks to do good he will draw to Himself. God presents the message of love, and people either respond to or deny that message.

John 6:4445 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.[45] It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Ιησους answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the Truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth My voice.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

John 17:6-8 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest Me out of the world. Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

John 12:44-50 Ιησους cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me but on Him that sent Me.[45] And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me.[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness.[47] And if any man hear My words and believe not, I judge him not, for I came not to judge the world but to save the world.[48] He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.[49] For I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him. 19 And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

John 7:16-18 Ιησους answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine but His that sent Me.[17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak from Myself.[18] He that speaketh from himself seeketh his own glory: but He that seeketh His glory that sent Him, the same is true and no unrighteousness is in Him.

 

[Ligurian]

"we" don't all know that, because not all of us are the gentiles to whom Paul speaks.
Some of us believe every one shall die in his own sin.Jeremiah 31:27-37

A lot of us are gentiles - and we can all read what the text says about gentiles with no access to scripture in Romans 2. That is the part we can "all know".

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel have their own gospel, which was given to them in Galilee just after John was taken to prison. Since the words Ιησους spoke to His Disciples came from the Father, this Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is the Father's Gospel.

And some of us believe that "The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16 -- "not just Christians or people with a Bible"

And some of us believe that Jesus "draws ALL mankind unto Him" John 12:32 -- "not just Christians or people with a Bible".

You and I have don't seem to be using the same dictionary.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be (ἐλέγξει) reproved.

John 16:8-11 And when He is come, He will (ἐλέγξει) rebuke the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment:[9] of sin because they believe not on Me,[10] of righteousness because I go to My Father and ye see Me no more,[11] of judgment because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

John 17:9-23 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.[14] I have given them Thy word and the world hath hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;

In John 12:32 it is an "unqualified" ALL --- no not merely all "men" or "All women" but ALL - no qualifer.

John 12:32 κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν.TR
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the Earth, will draw all unto Me.

All humans is NOT what's being drawn.

Because Ιησους was crucified and made the faithful witness and firstborn from the dead, He fulfulled His mission; therefore, the prince of the world was judged. Legally, the Risen Lord is now prince of the world... but this will more fully take effect when the last trumpet sounds. (Revelation 11:15)

Revelation 1:5-6 And from Ιησους Christ, the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the Earth.

Matthew 28:16-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in Heaven and in Earth.

Psalms 2:1-11 [8] Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the Heathen for Thine inheritance and the ends of the earth for Thy possession:[9] Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron, Thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter’s vessel.

Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers, even as I received of My Father.[28] And I will give him the morning star.

 

[BobRyan]

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel have their own gospel, which was given to them in Galilee just after John was taken to prison. Since the words Ιησους spoke came from the Father, this Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is the Father's Gospel.

Not true.

In scripture there is only one Gospel

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Gal 3:8 "the Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Heb 4:2 "We have had the Gospel preached to us just as it was to THEM also"

 

[BobRyan]

All humans is NOT what's being drawn.

Not true.

John 12:32 "I will draw ALL mankind unto Me" -- All is unqualified ALL.
John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave... that whosoever believes on Him might have everlasting life"
1 John 2:2 Jesus "is the Atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD"

Rom 2:11 "There is NO Partiality with God"... "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly"

Acts 10:
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Eph 2:
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Nothing good is ever lost.

 

[Ligurian]

Jesus promise to take those who follow Him - to heaven when He appears.

John 14:1-3
“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

The John 14 audience is the 12 Disciples, because this is the Passover Sermon, which runs from John 13:1 through John 16:33. His Disciples are the students of Ιησους; but they're only true Disciples if they continue with Him, John 8:31. Continue = Abide, John 15:1-10. These Disciples are His friends because they do what Ιησους commands, John 15:14. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matt 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matthew 13:40-43 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.[41] The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of his Kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.[43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Revelation 14:14-20 And I looked, and behold a white cloud and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown and in his hand a sharp sickle.[15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap, for the harvest of the Earth is ripe.[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the Earth, and the Earth was reaped.[17] And another angel came out of the temple which is in Heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.[18] And another angel came out from the altar which had power over fire, and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the Earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.[19] And the angel thrust in his sickle into the Earth and gathered the vine of the Earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.[20] And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (1600 furlongs = 200 miles)

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Ligurian]

All humans is NOT what's being drawn.
Revelation 1:5-6, Matthew 28:16-20, Psalms 2:8-9, Revelation 2:26-28

John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave... that whosoever believes on Him might have everlasting life"

Isaiah 24:4-6 The earth mourns, and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning.[5] And she has sinned by reason of her inhabitants: because they have transgressed the law and changed the Ordinances, even the Everlasting Covenant.[6] Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left.[7] The wine shall mourn, the vine shall mourn, all the merry-hearted shall sigh.[8] The mirth of timbrels has ceased, the sound of the harp has ceased.[9] They are ashamed, they have not drunk wine; strong drink has become bitter to them that drink it.[10] All the city has become desolate: one shall shut his house so that none shall enter.[11] There is a howling for the wine everywhere; all the mirth of the land has ceased, all the mirth of the land has departed.[12] And cities shall be left desolate, and houses being left shall fall to ruin.LXX

Isaiah 6:10-13 For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (Matthew 13:13-17) [11] And I said, How long, O Lord? And He said, Until cities be deserted by reason of their not being inhabited, and the houses by reason of there being no men, and the land shall be left desolate.LXX

Matthew 23:38-39 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Rom 2:11 "There is NO Partiality with God"... "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly"

Only 3 of the tribes of Jacob are Judah/Jews. Paul was grafted into Judah because he's Benjamite, and Levi seems to have stayed there, too: together, they became the House of Judah in the prophets, and the Kingdom of Judah in the Iron age.

The 10 tribes are in the Northern Kingdom of Israel, and called the House of Israel. They were told to go their own house in Matthew 10:5-7 and Matthew 28:18-20. They were also told the prophecies of Matthew 21:37-39, Matthew 22:6-7, (remnant), and Matthew 23:37-39.

These two houses are still divided because the Kingdom of Solomon is still divided, until the day of Jezreel.

The Revelation 11:1-2 "measure the temple" (John is that young man) equals the Zechariah 2:3-5 "measure Jerusalem" verse... making Jerusalem itself the Temple of God... so a wing of the temple must be the court. (Daniel 9:27)

 

[littlestar777]

>>When I was in hospital recently, the nurses often lied to make things easier for themselves. One wrote >>down that I had rejected a certain medication, that "I had refused it", just so they did not have to >>prepare it.
I think those in the medical front liner did an extraordinary job.

Covid is almost 3 years. They are living in fear, burned out, over worked but still die-ing serving the community but living with many negative feedback and lack of appreciation.

Many been taking anxiety pills, depression pills and many mentally down so it could be the reason they did such a mistake. I was part of the team but in IT department.

Many separated from family by staying outside alone for the sake of the community, family and friends.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Where are these good non Christian people (Teacher, Volunteer, Fire Fighter, etc) going afterlife without salvation ?

It's important to understand that in the Christian religion it's not about doing good stuff to get a good afterlife, and that doing bad stuff gets one a bad afterlife.

Heaven and hell as destinations where people go for having done good or bad, as reward and/or punishment are not what the Christian religion is about--though unfortunately that is frequently how it gets communicated.

Instead think of it this way: God made all things, and He declared everything He made good. But there is something wrong about the world--creatures live in competition with one another, they fight over resources, death and entropy ultimately consumes everything. The universe, everything, if it stays the way it goes will eventually all die and the universe will grow dark, quiet, and filled with nothing--no stars, no planets, nothing. We rational creatures, as human beings, should look at ourselves and our world and be good--but that isn't what we do. We exploit, we conquer, we take, we compete with one another over land, resources, etc. We kill, we steal, we hate and hurt one another over the most ridiculous of reasons.

What I'm describing is what Christianity calls the problem of sin and death. Sin and death are innately connected. Consistently throughout the Bible we read time and again of how sin brings death, and in its own way, death brings sin.

The story of God, as revealed in the history of Israel and culminating in God-become-man, Jesus Christ, is the story of the good Creator working with and within the world toward the purpose of healing the world, to rescue the world.

That rescuing and healing of the world is what Christianity calls salvation. For us, individually, that means a restoration of our communion with God which sin and death destroyed (and destroys); the forgiveness of our sins and the receiving of new life from God by our union to Jesus (His life, death, and resurrection), and having God's life within us by the Holy Spirit is God's way of fixing us, of restoring us, healing us, and calling and inviting us to be partakers of His mission to heal and rescue the world. That's the purpose of good works, to join with God in healing the world. All of which looks forward to a future day when God Himself will ultimately restore all things, renew all of creation. The dead will be raised, heaven and earth will be made new, and all things will be set aright.

The Christian's hope isn't to go to some place called "heaven" and enjoy a good afterlife as a reward. The Christian's hope is that even as God raised up Jesus from the dead, so is He going to raise us up on the Last Day and renew all things. We aren't going to spend eternity somewhere else, but right here on Terra Firma. Earth. Because the earth is good, and God is going to make it good.

It is true that we believe that between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body we will be, in some way, present and with God "in heaven", but this is what theologians call the "intermediate state". This period of being away from the body on account of death is unnatural, the soul needs the body just like the body needs the soul (because as human beings we are both body and soul, together). In the same way that a body without a soul is a lifeless corpse, the soul without the body is naked and in an unnatural condition.

So what is hell? The truth of the matter is that neither the Bible nor the last two thousand years of Christian teaching really have a lot to say about what hell is. Some people are pretty confident about their opinions about what hell is, but the truth is very little is said about hell. And the Christian Church has never had a definitive position about it. Instead there have been a wide range of opinions, views, sometimes even contradictory ideas about hell.

But hell is, at the end of the day, really about talking about how human choice to be collaborators with our own death ultimately pans out in some way. Through our sin we are making choices in opposition to God's will for us and the world, in opposition to freedom, in opposition to love, in opposition to life. We are making choices toward slavery, toward hate, toward death. It may seem insane to contemplate the idea that a person would "choose hell", but we see those choices being made all the time, even by ourselves. Every flicker of anger and resentment, every choice to ignore a hurting human being, every choice for violence and war instead of peace, every choice to insult and curse rather than bless--each and every single one of these things is a choice of hell. Not as though hell is a destination one goes to for accumulating bad deeds, or for lacking the right religion, or any of that. But rather those choices are, in a sense, themselves hell; or the seeds that will if left to grow become hell.

It's easy to look at popular fiction about hell and think that it's about a place bad people go to get punished. But that's just a fairy tale. The reality of hell is far more insidious and serious: we are the architects of hell, we are its craftsman and its builders, we supply the building materials and we construct its walls and doors and gates. We choose to imprison ourselves in its dungeon--by closing ourselves off from one another, from the world, from God.

Heaven is not the result of our making choices, but rather Heaven (as the final state of creation with God) is the choice of God toward creation. Heaven is what God brings down and creates when He restores and renews everything: God's choice to love, God's choice of life for us and the whole world.

Heaven is what happens when God's will is accomplished.
Hell is what happens when our will is accomplished.

The Christian life, right now, in this present, is to learn how to be conformed to the likeness of God, that His will becomes our own. That we, reconciled together with God by His grace and freely justified, now walk together with God and cooperate with Him in His work, His will, His purposes.

Nobody goes to heaven by being good enough.
Nobody goes to hell because God punishes bad people in hell.

It's not about reward and punishment. It's about grace and love and the Man who was crucified and rose again.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ligurian]

So what is hell? The truth of the matter is that neither the Bible nor the last two thousand years of Christian teaching really have a lot to say about what hell is.

Well, actually it does.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Ligurian]

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel have their own gospel, which was given to them in Galilee just after John was taken to prison. Since the words Ιησους spoke to His Disciples came from the Father, this Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is the Father's Gospel.

Not true.

In scripture there is only one Gospel

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

What harm does it do to the Gentiles to admit that
+/- 6.5 years before Paul came out of Arabia
the Circumcision had their own Gospel?


This Gospel of the Kingdom was prophesied by Isaiah:

Isaiah 52:3-7 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have been sold for nought; and ye shall not be ransomed with silver.[4] Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the Gentiles.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.

And fulfilled by Ιησους:

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 12:44-50 [49] For I have not spoken from Myself: but the Father which sent Me He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.KJV

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him. 19 And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

Matthew 4:13-23 And Ιησους went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Twice:

Isaiah 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He has anointed Me.
He has sent Me to preach glad tidings to the poor (1),
to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives (2)
and recovery of sight to the blind (3),
[2] to declare the acceptable year of the Lord (4)
and the day of recompence; to comfort all that mourn (5);LXX

Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the Gospel preached to them.(1)
Matthew 4:12-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.(2)
[17] From that time Iesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.(4)
John 9:39-41 And Ιησους said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.(3)
Matthew 5:1-4 (Disciples) Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.(5)

Matthew 9:35 And Ιησους went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in all the world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

 

[BobRyan]

Not true.

In scripture there is only one Gospel

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Gal 3:8 "the Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Heb 4:2 "We have had the Gospel preached to us just as it was to THEM also"

What harm does it do to the Gentiles to admit that
+/- 6.5 years before Paul came out of Arabia
the Circumcision had their own Gospel?

The Bible says there is only one real gospel only one true one... not many gospels.

If your point is that this one and only gospel was in the OT just as in the NT - then of course I agree.

Heb 4:2 "We have had the Gospel preached to us just as it was to THEM also"

====================

But that is still the same one-and-only Gospel.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Gal 3:8 "the Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Depends on what you mean by that...

 

[aiki]

Not me but some of my friend. Many very senior Christian said they may go to some place that isn't pleasant in a very word so i gotta disagree for that. Does it make sense a real good people treated so badly? This make me avoiding these specific people too

Well, this is to make yourself a judge of God, to put yourself above Him, by thinking you know and do better than He does. If God says no one is righteous enough on their own to satisfy Him, who are you to say otherwise? Are you better, more righteous and just, than God?

 

[Ligurian]

What harm does it do to the Gentiles to admit that
+/- 6.5 years before Paul came out of Arabia
the Circumcision had their own Gospel?

The Bible says there is only one real gospel only one true one... not many gospels.
Gal 1:6-9

IF fulfilled prophecy means nothing to you...

For the rest of us, then:

This Gospel of the Kingdom was prophesied by Isaiah:

Isaiah 52:3-7 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have been sold for nought; and ye shall not be ransomed with silver.[4] Thus saith the Lord, My people went down before to Egypt to sojourn there; and were carried away forcibly to the Assyrians.[5] And now why are ye here? Thus saith the Lord, Because My people was taken for nothing, wonder ye and howl. Thus saith the Lord, On account of you My name is continually blasphemed among the Gentiles.[6] Therefore shall My people know My name in that day, for I am He that speaks: I am present,[7] as a season of beauty upon the mountains, as the feet of one preaching glad tidings of peace, as one preaching good news: for I will publish thy salvation, saying, O Sion, thy God shall reign.

And fulfilled by Ιησους:

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Ιησους sent forth and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

John 12:44-50 [49] For I have not spoken from Myself: but the Father which sent Me He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.[50] And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.KJV

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him. 19 And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

Matthew 4:13-23 And Ιησους went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

And Again:

Isaiah 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He has anointed Me.
He has sent Me to preach glad tidings to the poor (1),
to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives (2)
and recovery of sight to the blind (3),
[2] to declare the acceptable year of the Lord (4)
and the day of recompence; to comfort all that mourn (5);LXX

Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the Gospel preached to them.(1)
Matthew 4:12-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.(2)
[17] From that time Iesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.(4)
John 9:39-41 And Ιησους said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.(3)
Matthew 5:1-4 (Disciples) Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.(5)

Matthew 9:35 And Ιησους went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in all the world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

And Again

Jeremiah 3:7-12 ...And faithless Juda saw her faithlessness.[8] And I saw that (for all the sins of which she was convicted, wherein the House of Israel committed adultery, and I put her away, and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement,) yet faithless Juda feared not, but went and herself also committed fornication.[9] And her fornication was nothing accounted of; and she committed adultery with wood and stone.[10] And for all these things faithless Juda turned not to Me with all her heart, but falsely.
[11] And the Lord said to me, Israel has justified himself more than faithless Juda.[12] Go and read these words toward the north, and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O House of Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not set My face against you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.

Hosea 1:6-7 And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the House of Israel, but will surely set myself in array against them.
Hosea 2:1-23 And I will sow her to Me on the Earth, and will love her that was not loved: and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God."LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:[10] Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 1, House of Israel)

Matthew 4:12-17 Now when Ιησους had heard that John was cast into prison He departed into Galilee.[13] And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:[14] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying:[15] The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea beyond Jordan, Galilee of the ἐθνῶν:[16] The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.[17] From that time Ιησους began to preach and to say: Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel

 

[littlestar777]

>>this is to make yourself a judge of God,
This is something u think. God is supreme in compassion, how can he be like that? But human will be.

Is someone knew me in severe pain? Is someone knew me not feeling well ? Is someone listened any even a little ? Human even read bible for century or teach the Bible may not know, but God knows.