ICONO'CLAST
Well-Known Member
You do not understand what happened at the fall.
You do not understand that salvation is a covenant salvation in which Jesus is the surety...Heb7....guarantee.
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You do not understand what happened at the fall.You read it backwards because you think faith is an irresistible gift. It's clearly not. Jesus would hardly be amazed at the woman's faith when he healed her if he irresistibly gave it to her.
It says departed from the faith. That's flat out not possible under OSAS. Are we not saved through faith? If it meant they were false converts, it would say so.Anyway, who are the ''some'' then? Because you are speculating just as much as I am because it doesn't say they were saved.
Are you serious??? Do you really believe that Jesus was saying that His sheep won't ever die physically???
Or are you just so confused about how to discern between the first death (physical) and the second death (which is also called the lake of fire)?
Calm down buddy that's what the thread is about,read the title.
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.''
Do you keep the ''commandments'' all the time?
Calm down buddy, that’s what the thread title is about.
Yes I keep His commandments.
If I do sin, then I confess my sin and forgiven.
I have learned to live according to the Spirit, whereby I invest my time towards the Spirit, rather than the flesh.
But that really doesn’t matter does it.
It doesn’t matter what you or I do or don’t do, because what we do doesn’t change the truth.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
This is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB
Right on. I wish it were not so. Few things could make me happier than for no Christian to sin again after coming to Christ.If you are trying to imply you never sin, I say you're a liar.
Yes - more often than I'd like.I need to ask if you still commit sin, before "learning" anything from you.
How are you coming with confessing that sin of lying and slandering FreeGrace2 a while back?.................If I do sin, then I confess my sin and forgiven.
It says departed from the faith. That's flat out not possible under OSAS. Are we not saved through faith? If it meant they were false converts, it would say so.
The "some" are those who had faith and fell into disbelief. Some people will over complicate anything.I already gave you my answer and you ignored it. You are just on repeat cycle.
Anyway, who are the ''some'' then? Because you are speculating just as much as I am because it doesn't say they were saved.
I personal thought it was talking about the Catholic church and perhaps symbolic of Babylon:
''1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.''
The Catholic church is full of lies and hypocrisy covering up their scandals, it forbids the priests to marry and abstains from meat on fridays. They also follow works salvation as I stated.
There are some people here I would be willing to bet are not saved although they claim they are saved. These are the types Paul is referring to but I'm not allowed under forum rules to name.
Plus I don't gamble.
The "some" are those who had faith and fell into disbelief. Some people will over complicate anything.
And who said anything about gambling?
So that's a yes to sin.
Correct or not?
Ah, I see the problem.
You have reading comprehension issues.
Here it is again.
Yes I keep His commandments.
If I do sin, then I confess my sin and forgiven.
I have learned to live according to the Spirit, whereby I invest my time towards the Spirit, rather than the flesh.
But that really doesn’t matter does it.
It doesn’t matter what you or I do or don’t do, because what we do doesn’t change the truth.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
This is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
As an added scripture, please understand the principle of righteousness.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
He who practices righteousness is righteous,
JLB
Wrong. Just because someone ceases to believe, how does that prove my doctrine false?If one apostate exists, you whole doctrine is proven false.
21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.Check the context. It's about the 7 year Tribulation.
Sure it is. To "leave the faith" means to cease to believe. It does NOT mean "cease to be saved", as you erroneously opine.It says departed from the faith. That's flat out not possible under OSAS.
We are saved through faith and kept by the promises and guarantees of Jesus.Are we not saved through faith?
So according to your doctrine, a Christian who becomes an atheist or Satanist and opposes the gospel, still gets a free ride to Glory?I said:
"And apostates HAVE believed at one time. So they are excluded from both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12."
Wrong. Just because someone ceases to believe, how does that prove my doctrine false?
You seem to keep forgetting to include evidence when you make statements.
As is, they are only opinions. Evidence from Scripture is needed to support your opinions.
My point is that of eternal security. Once a person believes, they are guaranteed an inheritance for the day of redemption.
iow, recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
Paul even included the FUTURE in what CANNOT SEPARATE the believer from the love of Christ. Rom 8:38
Which is the whole point of the OP in this thread. 1 Thess 5:10 says "whether we (the believer) is awake or asleep, we SHALL LIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM.
And in that context, being awake and asleep are used as metaphors for how one lives their life. Believers are supposed to be awake, but may not be, and unbelievers are asleep.
Notice what Paul commands believers to do:
5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.
6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober.
iow, believers are not to act like unbelievers (asleep). But even if believers are asleep, Paul said this:
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
The OP quoted all the other passages that uses the same language for the same concept. Please review the OP for details.
Those promises and guarantees are for believers.But you don't believe His promises and guarantees, from all you've posted.
You're welcome. I'm always opening the door to truth. So others may know the truth.Thanks for opening the door.
Unfortunately you are wildly misunderstanding the verse.But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
Christians who live is sin will reap eternal death.
- the wages of sin is death
The "death" here refers to physical death via God's painful divine discipline. Heb 12:11, 1 Cor 11:30.Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13
Paul plainly warns Christians, if we live according to the flesh we will die; eternal death.
- For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
What about yourself, who doesn't believe His very words, such as John 5:24 and John 10:28? That makes you a liar and the truth is not in you.It doesn’t matter what you or I do or don’t do, because what we do doesn’t change the truth.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Here's another example of your rejecting Scripture. Paul said of those "having believed" (notice the past tense), that they are sealed with the Spirit, a deposit that GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.This is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.There is nothing here about salvation. It's about being a disciple, a student of Jesus.
Have you never noticed that in any given classroom, not all the students are paying attention. Just as in this thread, the Arminian students aren't paying any attention to the teaching of Jesus on eternal security.
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