Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
You are not making sense. Why do you say you don't want to be wrong? Why is that an issue? I didn't move the goal posts I just made the logical conclusion.Well, now you've just "moved the goal posts". You said you were comfortable with being wrong. Did you forget what you said?
I said I didn't want to be wrong any more than you. And you responded with being comfortable with being wrong.
Of course I want to be corrected about anything that doesn't line up with Scripture.
What's the title of this thread? Do you believe that or not?
First, no one was or is saved by keeping the Law.Moses later was given the Law with which he could meet the required atonements for sin.
Having done so, he would qualify for eternal life.
Oh, just stop it. He wrote in the present tense. And you have failed to prove that he was writing in the historical present. He wasn't recalling anything from the past. He was describing his PRESENT struggles.Romans 7 is Paul's remembrances of his time in the flesh, as a Jew, as a Pharisee.
No. I said what the Bible says. Peter.You should say "OT Peter".
Peter was saved already. You have no point.After Jesus' death and resurrection a new era opened up.
What nonsense. You need to study to understand your own sin nature, which you simply deny.BTW, I don't need to study to justify sin.
Your question doesn't make sense. Why do you WANT to be wrong? I want the OPPOSITE. I WANT to be correct regarding Scripture. Seems you don't care.You are not making sense. Why do you say you don't want to be wrong?
Truth is an issue. I'm very sorry that it doesn't seem to be to you.Why is that an issue?
You did and I showed how.I didn't move the goal posts I just made the logical conclusion.
There is no material difference between your phony categories.I already told you, you can't lose it but you can reject it, you can throw it away.
Then, by your own claim here, a recipient of eternal life CAN perish.You can fall into disbelief and go to hell, even if you were once a true believer.
What the Word says is that his sheep will never perish. Being a sheep has conditions, it's not forced upon us. I happen to live with sheep and goats. Being called a sheep isn't exactly a compliment. When scared, they just run away with out any thought of where they are going to. Jesus specifically says the sheep are those who listen to his voice. No metaphor is perfect, but stop listening and you will likely become a goat eventually.Yet, Jesus said recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.
Why aren't you aware that the words "can" and "shall never" are mutually exclusive and are polar opposites?
This doesn't make any sense. Please explain how Paul was "killed in the hearts of men". And where do you get your ideas from, since there is NOTHING about this in the Bible.
If I don't "practice" sin aren't I a non-sinner?
Of course I am.
Newer versions of scripture have polluted the bible with words like "practice", without even looking at the next few words.
Which for 1 John 3:9 are..."for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
"Cannot" nullifies the intentions of those who illicitly inserted "practice".
As "if" is conditional, why not meet the conditions?
Well, isn't this just silly. This isn't about being comfortable with being proven wrong. There you go again, trying to move those ol' goal posts.If you aren't comfortable with being proven wrong
Actually, that is absolutely true about you; who is comfortable with being wrong.it's pointless to have a conversation with you.
Yourself to a T.You will never actually listen, just jump to a silly defense like you just did.
Do you really want to be this picky? In v.28 where Jesus said "I give THEM", of course He was referring to His sheep, from v.27.What the Word says is that his sheep will never perish.
The comment about "forced" is unnecessary. No one has argued that it is.Being a sheep has conditions, it's not forced upon us.
You're just not reading very carefully. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep DO.Jesus specifically says the sheep are those who listen to his voice.
So, which verse or passage did you learn this from?No metaphor is perfect, but stop listening and you will likely become a goat eventually.
lol. Don't you know WHY Jesus taught with metaphors?freegrace2,
1. If you don’t understand a metaphor like killed in the hearts of men then you don’t need to be posting.
I'll just point out that every time I ask for clarification, you wander off into the weeds with nonsense. You haven't YET made yourself clear.You act like every time I mention kill means physical. This shows you do not understand proper context.
If that is true, then you would have clear evidence of that. So I challenge you to cite the post # and the quote itself.2. You want to section off one point to defer from understanding proper context.
First, you seem to have zero to little understanding of what I post. OF course Paul made the point that he could be killed at any moment. Duh.3. You say it is not in the Bible but fail to understand they were in jeopardy everyday of being killed physically and in the enemies hearts every day because they wanted to kill him.
No, you have only given your own opinion about a passage.I have told the true context from the immediate passage.
Of course I agree with the Word. What I don't agree with is your own opinions, which you have NOT been able to support from Scripture.You have to agree with the word. Jerry kelso
Hebrews 4:1, 11.....Could you please cite this verse? I don't recall seeing such a verse. And I DO want to know the verse that shows the "most clear picture of losing salvation".
However, my challenge to Arminians continue to be a bit more specific than just having a "picture", since pictures can be rather misleading.
My challenge is to provide any verse that clearly and plainly says that salvation or eternal life can be lost. Thanks.
How do you tell Jesus' sheep from all other sheep?Do you really want to be this picky? In v.28 where Jesus said "I give THEM", of course He was referring to His sheep, from v.27.
But, who are His sheep? Believers. But however picky you want to be, and play word games, when Jesus GIVES eternal life to someone, whatever you want to call them, they ARE RECIPIENTS of eternal life. They are saved people.
So, quit dodging, please, and answer the question.
In your theology, can a recipient of eternal life perish?
The comment about "forced" is unnecessary. No one has argued that it is.
Also, you haven't YET shown that sheep have conditions for salvation.
In fact, v.28 blows your opinions out of the water.
SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF BEING GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE, JESUS' SHEEP WILL NEVER PERISH.
So, if you are looking for "conditions", look no further than being a recipient of eternal life.
You're just not reading very carefully. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep DO.
You're trying to twist the verse into HOW to become a sheep of Jesus. No can do.
So, which verse or passage did you learn this from?
Seriously, if you continue to ignore my requests for evidence from Scripture, how can you expect ANYONE to take you seriously?
Without evidence, all you've got is your own opinion.
I've already given you ample evidence from scripture multiple times, but since you can't stand to think you might be wrong, you don't even consider it, you just keep harping on one verse, while ignoring that the verses in the passage explain WHO is given eternal life, and it's conditional on belief. Which of course you just said, but will deny that you said it in the next post.Do you really want to be this picky? In v.28 where Jesus said "I give THEM", of course He was referring to His sheep, from v.27.
But, who are His sheep? Believers. But however picky you want to be, and play word games, when Jesus GIVES eternal life to someone, whatever you want to call them, they ARE RECIPIENTS of eternal life. They are saved people.
So, quit dodging, please, and answer the question.
In your theology, can a recipient of eternal life perish?
The comment about "forced" is unnecessary. No one has argued that it is.
Also, you haven't YET shown that sheep have conditions for salvation.
In fact, v.28 blows your opinions out of the water.
SIMPLY ON THE BASIS OF BEING GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE, JESUS' SHEEP WILL NEVER PERISH.
So, if you are looking for "conditions", look no further than being a recipient of eternal life.
You're just not reading very carefully. v.27 is a DESCRIPTION of what His sheep DO.
You're trying to twist the verse into HOW to become a sheep of Jesus. No can do.
So, which verse or passage did you learn this from?
Seriously, if you continue to ignore my requests for evidence from Scripture, how can you expect ANYONE to take you seriously?
Without evidence, all you've got is your own opinion.
The 1 John 2;1 "sinner" is not a Christian, but "any man".philw,
1. To commit an act of sin one is classified as a sinner. There is no argument about that.
This is not the translation or thought behind the context of the wording.
2. This is known as a paradox that has to be reconciled with other scriptures on the subject.
3. 1 John 2:1; My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
V2; And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
4. One passage says a Christian can sin and another passage says we don’t commit sin.
They both can’t be right.
Amen to that.1 John 2:24-25; Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. IF that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son and in the Father.
V 25; And this is the promise that he hath promised us, EVEN ETERNAL LIFE.
The condition is abiding.
I'm sorry you have taken a man's word to accommodate sin, as the truth of God.5. I know we have to be careful of newer translations about certain issues. This is not the case.
The scriptures together cannot be reconciled that we never sin. Also the respected Greek expositor Kenneth Weiss says it means we don’t practice sin.
A couple of things to address here...6. I have worked with people who believed in complete sinless perfection as in no possibility for a Christian to sin after they got saved.
That was until one of their prominent own sinned in a very obvious sin.
They excommunicated him before they brought him in but, needless to say they were humbled and realized their doctrine was wrong.
If this is what you believe then you cannot reconcile the scriptures together on this belief.
Our level of learning has no influence on what we can resist from the devil.7. We should meet the conditions but we are not always perfect in our knowledge.
The Bible says to not be ignorant of Satan’s devices but it doesn’t mean they are not.
Satan can deceive us and is out there to steal, kill, and destroy our lives. He wants us to go to hell.
Is sin a fruit of "that" seed?8. The seed remains in us if we abide in him. This goes in line with 1 John 2:24-25.
Jerry Kelso
Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement on the day of the Lord.The people advocating for conditional salvation should read the scripture attached from their own posts. If we look at what the writers are telling us it doesn't actually say anything about salvation being lost after being saved.
Change my mind.
Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement on the day of the Lord.
After which point, if one"s name is in the book of life, it will be permanent.
Endure, till the end!
OK, thanks for sharing this verse. Even on the surface, I don't see any words about losing salvation.Hebrews 4:1, 11.....
1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."
11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?