Salvation and the Trinity

[Searching_for_Christ]

I see everyone debating weather God is a Triune or not but this is a discussion I have had before that depending on the place could be very interesting and more off the beaten path in regards to most Trinity discussions. The question is "Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian" meaning must you believe in a Triune Godhead to be saved? Now I don't have much to say on this matter other than NO I don't think a belief in the trinity is nesecary..I believe its perfectly possible to be Christian with no doubt and NOT believe in the Trinity, the Gospel message that is proclaimed that you must believe in order to be considered saved and part of Gods flock is simply this "Trust in Jesus Christ and Lord and Saviour and repent of your sins" nothing about the Triune. But my answer I know isn't that complex and I believe that others can add more to this discussion, Have fun guys.

 

[k4c]

I see everyone debating weather God is a Triune or not but this is a discussion I have had before that depending on the place could be very interesting and more off the beaten path in regards to most Trinity discussions. The question is "Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian" meaning must you believe in a Triune Godhead to be saved? Now I don't have much to say on this matter other than NO I don't think a belief in the trinity is nesecary..I believe its perfectly possible to be Christian with no doubt and NOT believe in the Trinity, the Gospel message that is proclaimed that you must believe in order to be considered saved and part of Gods flock is simply this "Trust in Jesus Christ and Lord and Saviour and repent of your sins" nothing about the Triune. But my answer I know isn't that complex and I believe that others can add more to this discussion, Have fun guys.

Amen...

As a matter of fact, the Trinity God came long after Jesus and His disciples.

 

[Jpark]

I see everyone debating weather God is a Triune or not but this is a discussion I have had before that depending on the place could be very interesting and more off the beaten path in regards to most Trinity discussions. The question is "Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian" meaning must you believe in a Triune Godhead to be saved? Now I don't have much to say on this matter other than NO I don't think a belief in the trinity is nesecary..I believe its perfectly possible to be Christian with no doubt and NOT believe in the Trinity, the Gospel message that is proclaimed that you must believe in order to be considered saved and part of Gods flock is simply this "Trust in Jesus Christ and Lord and Saviour and repent of your sins" nothing about the Triune. But my answer I know isn't that complex and I believe that others can add more to this discussion, Have fun guys.

It is possible. God uses people from many denominations and some faiths. The important thing is that God receives the glory and worship and that one obeys God. Obedience is the real stumbling block. It is very difficult to obey God and to trust in God.

 

[hybrid]

Trust in Jesus Christ and Lord and Saviour and repent of your sins"

this will do.

 

[scriptures]

Amen, Amen, Amen

 

[Christos Anesti]

Jesus Christ is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

So Jesus is His own Father? What do you make of this :

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort," 2 Cor 1:3

Seems to imply that the Father and Jesus are two differnt Persons doesn't it ?

 

[wayseer]

Whether you 'believe' in the Trinity or not does not matter. The Trinity is merely Man's expression of the mystery of God. I really fail to understand why the idea of the Trinity get's so many knickers is so many knots.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

These are some interesting replies and not as much debating going on as I thought there would be. I just want to reiterate (just being cautious) that I don't wan't it to go into a "the trinity is real" vs "the trinity is man made" kind of thread but actual discussion and debate on its necessity or lack of necessity in regards to salvation

 

[camethodactor]

Belief in the trinity is not necessary for salvation. I believe that Almighty God, is the one and only God, and Jesus is a prophet of God.

 

[Jpark]

So Jesus is His own Father? What do you make of this :

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort," 2 Cor 1:3

Seems to imply that the Father and Jesus are two differnt Persons doesn't it ?

This is how to reconcile Jesus and God.

Jesus was of the form of God (Philippians 2:6), a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus, the Holy Spirit (John 14:18; John 16:7; Galatians 4:6), was manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), taking the form of a man (Philippians 2:7), but retaining His deity.

God was Jesus, seen by angels.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Luke 4:33-34

Destroy means spiritual destitution, spiritual poverty. It is not the loss of being, but of well-being.

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever

14:16 another, αλλον; Strong's #243

One besides, another of the same kind. The word shows similarities but diversities of operation and ministries.

God is not three Persons. God is three Role. He was walking on earth as Jesus and He was operating as the Holy Spirit at the same time (Genesis 1:2), which is why the Holy Spirit was present with Jesus in Luke 5:17.

This is the equation in simplicity.

One God = One Spirit

One Spirit = Three Role

Three Role = One God

The equation One + One + One = One is nonsense for that does not make any sense. I understand Isaiah 55:8-9 says that man cannot fully know God, but surely man can understand that God is Spirit and that nothing is impossible for Him. The divine conception of Jesus, for example, was by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three Persons, but three Role. He is not three Roles.

A Person has a Soul. God has no Soul. God cannot be destroyed (Matthew 10:28). God is a Spirit.

 

[Christos Anesti]

What is the least I can do/believe and still be "saved"? Do I HAVE to believe in the Trinity, do I HAVE to accept the Bible as true, Do I HAVE to love my neighbor, Do I HAVE to feed the poor...etc. ? I think this whole line of thought can be fruitless and even of the devil. We are all to strive for perfect holiness and leave the judgment to our Lord. Formulating some supposed minimum standard is pointless.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

What is the least I can do/believe and still be "saved"? Do I HAVE to believe in the Trinity, do I HAVE to accept the Bible as true, Do I HAVE to love my neighbor, Do I HAVE to feed the poor...etc. ? I think this whole line of thought can be fruitless and even of the devil. We are all to strive for perfect holiness and leave the judgment to our Lord. Formulating some supposed minimum standard is pointless.

Actually in order to be saved you don't have to feed the poor BUT the Scriptures say to love the neighbor, the Scriptures ARE true, and I think its way to easy to fall into false teachings if anyone was to hold that view. The main point I bring up with the Trinity is not "what is the bear minimum I have to do" its just me trying to help others and discuss why even the nontrinitarians are our brothers in Christ! The Trinity is not an explicitly taught doctrine nore is it ever taught by the Apostles or Christ himself along with the Gospel! simply saying...Trinity is never preached about in the Scriptures...but it is possibly implied at.

 

[Christos Anesti]

discuss why even the nontrinitarians are our brothers in Christ!

They are certainly fellow humans and creatures of God and thus deserving of my (and everyones) love. They hold to a very foul and soul destroying heresy however*. Many of them hold to similar teachings as the arch-heretic Arius. I don't say this because I hate them but rather just the opposite. I wish for everyone to come to the true knowledge of Christ who is God and the Eternal Word of the Father.

its just me trying to help others

I'm sorry but I can't consider it "help" in any real sense if you are trying to make people feel comfortable about their false doctrines.

* They may not personally be heretics however because it could be due to a misunderstanding and they may never have been properly shown the true faith. For one to be a heretic it requires a certain obstinacy to truth once it presented and it's it not my job to label any individual with the term.

 

[Hentenza]

Belief in the trinity is not necessary for salvation. I believe that Almighty God, is the one and only God, and Jesus is a prophet of God.

That's problematic. How can Jesus be a mere prophet of God when Jesus can and does forgive sin? The bible tells us that only God can forgive sin. It is necessary for Jesus to be God in order for you and anyone else to be saved since salvation is a work of God not a work of man.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Wasn't trying to help them...I don't think I need to help them in feeling cozy in their "heresy" I am pretty sure they already do (which would be why they are nontrinitarian in the first place) I ask how a doctrine never specifically ever stated in Scriptures that is suppose to be just a understanding of Gods nature is suppose to hold back someones ability to Follow christ and be Christian? now I understand that you are Orthodox and simply Believing in Jesus and Repenting isn't enough (well its enough..but you get what I'm talking about) you got the tradition of the Church and such that you put into consideration...but I was to plainly say what was needed for salvation it would be "Belive in Christ as your Lord and Saviour, believe that he died on the cross for your sins, and repent of your ways and follow him" but I haven't seen any scriptures in the Bible where Jesus or the Apostles ever specifically preach the Trinity in full clarity as a PART of Salvation..its simply not there.

 

[Christos Anesti]

hat you are Orthodox and simply Believing in Jesus and Repenting isn't enough

There is a sense in which we are saved , we are being saved, and have hope that we will be saved. It's a lifelong process. Salvation isn't merely being forgiven in a jurdicial sense at one point in our life when we said a "sinners prayer". Salvation is growing into the likeness of God, becoming "partakers of the divine nature". We must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". It is an ongoing project. Salvation is through faith which is inseprable from faithfulness. Faith without works is dead. Dead faith does not save.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I ask how a doctrine never specifically ever stated in Scriptures that is suppose to be just a understanding of Gods nature

Because it has been divinely revealed in the same manner as the scripture through the same church that canonized the scriptures. Because the same "pillar and ground of truth" through which the scriptures were revealed also had this revealed to them by the same God.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Because it has been divinely revealed in the same manner as the scripture through the same church that canonized the scriptures. Because the same "pillar and ground of truth" through which the scriptures were revealed also had this revealed to them by the same God.

So in essense, even if it is not clearly stated in Scripture you are saying we must believe whatever the RCC teaches because they preserved and compiled the New Testament. I can see now why Muslims say that our Bible has been changed. It has been changed here and there to try to support the doctrine of the Trinity.


As far as the OP's question.. The Trinity is not at all necessary for salvation neither is any other man made doctrine. To be honest, I don't even consider correct theology to be necessary for salvation. What God really cares about is did we love our neighbor as ourself? To show love to the poor and needy is to show love to God.

God keep us all.

 

[hybrid]

I can see now why Muslims say that our Bible has been changed. It has been changed here and there to try to support the doctrine of the Trinity.

all who deny that jesus was god in the flesh say that the bible was changed. do you know why they say that?

it's very simple. because the present bible simply is very clear about the divinity of christ. and notice how there is so much effort and energy just to refute the scriptures to mean it otherwise. and most remedies to revert to the so called "real meaning" of the bible is to make their own versions accompanied by a voluminous anti trinitarian commentaries.

it's really very amusing.

 

[Christos Anesti]

all who deny that jesus was god in the flesh say that the bible was changed. do you know why they say that?

Very good point. The Muslims know our Bible teaches that Jesus is God the Son thats why they claim it has been tampered with.