saints of this and that (moved from GT)

[Philothei]

First: Jesus was making a promise to the thief that he would be saved. Not that he would be in heaven that day. Recall the words of Christ after the resurrection that He had not yet risen to His Father.

Second: Paradise is heaven.

Christ said what he said. He said when He was going to be resurrected... and I know Paradise is heaven I have no clue why you would think that Christ was not resurrected... and with His Father (? ) He was not ascended yet but He was resurrected. Time and place is not of physical essence...

you must read it in the greek!

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/luk23.pdf

it literally says:

"" i am saying today in paradise you will be with me"""


NO TIME LINE...
The Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word hades are synonymous in meaning.

And here is the proof from the Scriptures and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades are identical in meaning:

Acts 2:27: "Because You will not leave My soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption" is quoted from:

Psalm 16:10: "For You will not leave My soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption."

And so the inspiration of the Spirit of God proves that the Greek word hades is the right and proper translation of the Hebrew word sheol.

 

[Stryder06]

If you want to profess that those who have died in Christ have no hope and no more reward as this passage states, be my guest. If not, then admit this Scripture is referring to the damned, not those who have died in Christ.

Or how about you just let the scripture mean what it means. Solomon wasn't talking about hope and a reward in the life to come. He was talking about hope and a reward this world. Plus it still couldn't be talking about the damned because he says they know nothing. If the damn are burning away in hell then I'm pretty sure they're aware of it.

Virtually every other denomination I'm aware of who professes to get their doctrine from the Bible alone would disagree with you and profess Scripture, not tradition, teaches that man does indeed have an immortal soul and those who have died in Christ are indeed alive with him in heaven.

I know they would, and I hold the same contention with them. Sadly they don't realize that they're holding to a line of logic that was hatched by your church. Those who hold to the idea of an immortal soul are holding to some scriptures while ignoring others. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. That's what God says. He doesn't say it shall carry on in eternal torment, but that it shall die. When God breathed into man's nostrils the breath of life, man became a living soul. That's what scripture says. It doesn't say he received a living soul, but that he became one.

Yet another example of why Christ established a teaching authority within his church, and that Scripture doesn't teach that it alone is the sole authority for doctrine, much less that it interprets itself.

To the law and the testimony. If they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20. That seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[Stryder06]

Christ said what he said. He said when He was going to be resurrected... and I know Paradise is heaven I have no clue why you would think that Christ was not resurrected... and with His Father (? ) He was not ascended yet but He was resurrected. Time and place is not of physical essence...

you must read it in the greek!

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/luk23.pdf

it literally says:

"" i am saying today in paradise you will be with me"""


NO TIME LINE...
The Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word hades are synonymous in meaning.

And here is the proof from the Scriptures and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades are identical in meaning:

Acts 2:27: "Because You will not leave My soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption" is quoted from:

Psalm 16:10: "For You will not leave My soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption."

And so the inspiration of the Spirit of God proves that the Greek word hades is the right and proper translation of the Hebrew word sheol.

Well we have two things in common. I believe that heaven is paradise and that sheol and hades are referring to the same thing (the grave). But the greek translation doesn't change anything. I'm telling you today that you'll be with me in paradise is still Christ promising that the thief would have eternal life.

Christ said that He had not yet ascended. I'd like to think that if He was in heaven that Friday, He would have had to ascend to His Father. By saying "I promise you today..." Christ was giving that thief reassurance that He was saved. That that day, his name had been registered in the book of life.

 

[Kristos]

I think it only makes sense if you view in an eschotological sense. Just like Paul uses these terms it is a becoming, always looking through the promise to fulfillment with complete trust that it can be said to have already happened. Are we really "justified" without being judge? Not really, but at the same time the promise of justification at the judgement through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal so that even in the present we can talk about it within the context of time and within the context of the biblical narrative.

 

[Dorothea]

Here's some more scriptural references from this Church's site on the awareness of the Saints in heaven:

THE STATE OF THE SOUL AFTER DEATH

Does the soul, once it has left the body at the moment of physical death, remain conscious and aware of what is going on around it?

When we turn to the Scriptures, the fact of continued awareness of the soul after death is repeatedly borne out. Take, for instance, Hebrews 12:22-24: "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel". The words I have italicized in this passage refer to those God-loving souls who have passed from this life to be with Christ in the next. They are part of the Church in heaven (what some would call the "Church Triumphant"), living consciously with Christ, though still awaiting His Second Coming, when they will be clothed with their glorified bodies at the resurrection of the dead. Surely this passage would not say that in the Church's worship we are in the presence of angels, God the Father, Jesus, and "the spirits of just men made perfect" if these spirits were somehow inactive and unaware! The Hebrews passage is not in isolation. We find many other indications in Scripture that the spirits of those who have died are very much alert and aware of what is taking place both in heaven and on earth. Consider, for example, the following:

Jesus' words in Luke 20:37, 38, where He states: "But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him".

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), in which Jesus relates the conversation of Abraham, in Paradise, with the deceased rich man whose soul has descended into Hades.

Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross: "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

The Book of Revelation, which shows us the saints in heaven, before the Great Tribulation, being very active indeed-falling on their faces in worship before the throne of God, casting their crowns to the King of Glory, singing His praises, and speaking to Him (Revelation 4:4, 10, 11; 5:8-10, 13; 6:9-11; 7:9-12).

The personal testimony of Saint Paul. When he wrote to the Philippians, Saint Paul expressed faith that he would be alive with Christ after his death: "For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you" (Philippians 1:23, 24). He wrote to the Corinthians very similarly: "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8).

The Gospel accounts of the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-9; Mark 9:2-10; Luke 9:28-36), which demonstrate clearly that the faithful departed continue to live, by the fact that Moses and Elijah appeared and spoke with Jesus there!

Hebrews 12:1, which exhorts us, "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [including the Old Testament heroes of faith listed in chapter 11], let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us". These "witnesses" are the saints from all ages, both known and unknown, canonized and uncanonized. Certainly they would not have been called "witnesses" if they were unconscious of their surroundings.


The Seventh Day Adventists and a few other Protestant groups hold a doctrine called "soulsleep"-which asserts that after death the soul is asleep, or in some other way unconscious, not to be awakened until the trumpet announces the Second Coming of Christ. What about this?

This teaching is foreign to historic Christian Orthodoxy, and did not appear until the time of the Protestant Reformation. The key Scriptural passage used to support this view is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, where Saint Paul says that those who "sleep in Jesus" will precede those who are still alive on earth in the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns. In its proper context, however, this passage must be seen as describing death from the point of view of those left behind, not from the point of view of the departed. As Saint Paul says at the beginning of these verses, "I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope" (verse 13, italics mine). For those of us who remain, death is a mystery. To us, the dead "sleep"; they are silent, motionless, lifeless. But as we have clearly seen already from the Scriptures, they are far from "asleep" in terms of their own awareness and activity. The essence of the matter is this: Jesus Christ has conquered death. All who live in Him share in this victory. As He said, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die" (John 11:25, 26). Thus, for those in Christ, physical death causes only a temporary, physical separation between those with Him in the next life (the Church in heaven) and those left on earth. Death does not, however, cause a spiritual separation between the dead and the living, for Jesus is still the Lord of both groups. Together, these two groups, the Church in heaven and the Church on earth (sometimes called "the Church militant'), comprise the one, whole, undivided Church, which Saint Paul calls "His [Christ's] body" (Ephesians 1:22, 23). The love which knits together in perfect unity these two aspects of Christ's Body prevails forever, for "love never fails" (1 Corinthians 13:8). As Saint Paul also says, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38, 39).

Holy Trinity Orthodox Church - Prayer and the Departed Saints

 

[Stryder06]

The Seventh Day Adventists and a few other Protestant groups hold a doctrine called "soulsleep"-which asserts that after death the soul is asleep, or in some other way unconscious, not to be awakened until the trumpet announces the Second Coming of Christ. What about this?

First: Please point it out to me if I missed it, because i just skimmed the post, but does this article go over any of the OT references to the dead?

Second: SDA's do not believe that the soul sleeps as in, the soul while separate from the body, remains in the body, "asleep" until the second coming. The soul is the whole person, body + BoG. That person remains in a state of unconsciousness. This is not a new line of logic to Christianity. Christ, when speaking to the people, was accused of being crazy for saying that He has seen Abraham. The people were quick to point out that Abraham and the Prophets were dead. If they had an understanding that you died and went to heaven, then this would have been an invalid argument, as Jesus had attested to being from heaven.

 

[Dorothea]

First: Please point it out to me if I missed it, because i just skimmed the post, but does this article go over any of the OT references to the dead?

I don't see it in this article, but then everything changed when Christ died on the Cross, descended to Hades, and resurrected. Although, we have discussed Rachel in Jeremiah knowing about the killing of the babies by Herod. So, she was quite alive, as was Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration of Christ.

Second: SDA's do not believe that the soul sleeps as in, the soul while separate from the body, remains in the body, "asleep" until the second coming. The soul is the whole person, body + BoG. That person remains in a state of unconsciousness. This is not a new line of logic to Christianity. Christ, when speaking to the people, was accused of being crazy for saying that He has seen Abraham. The people were quick to point out that Abraham and the Prophets were dead. If they had an understanding that you died and went to heaven, then this would have been an invalid argument, as Jesus had attested to being from heaven.

What is BoG?

Yes, of course the people in the OT did not see it as Christ sees it. People during OT time were separated from Christ spiritually as well as physically, but were still aware of what was going on when they passed on because of the evidence of Rachel and the other two I mentioned, before His death and resurrection by being in hades in their tombs with their bodies awaiting His first coming. Their souls/spirits still separated from their bodies but were in the same vacinity (tombs) with their bodies because the separation from God still existed until Christ's dying and resurrecting. The separation of soul/spirit from the body was the result of the Fall - the sin of Adam and Eve. Before that, the body was made whole and wasn't meant to be separated, but sin happened, and death was the result of the sin, which caused the unnatural separation of soul/spirit from the bodies.

Christ conquered death. Broke the chains of hades, tore the veil in the Temple from top to bottom (signifying Top to Bottom rather than Bottom to Top because it was an act of God), so no longer are we spiritually separated from Him, but with Him and in Him when we pass physically from here. Our bodies still lie in the tombs "dead" until the Final Judgment and Resurrection.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.

Hebrews 12:22-24: "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel".

How does this verse teach that as people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?

Luke 20:37, 38, "But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him".

How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), in which Jesus relates the conversation of Abraham, in Paradise, with the deceased rich man whose soul has descended into Hades.

It's a STORY!


How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?

"Today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?

"For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you" (Philippians 1:23, 24).

How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?

"We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8).

How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?

Hebrews 12:1, "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us".

How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?










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[Dorothea]

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How does this verse teach that as people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?






How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?






It's a STORY!


How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this?






How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?






How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?







How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?






How does this verse teach that has people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?










.

Look with the nous (soul). Use the eyes and ears of the spiritual. Those who have ears, hear, those who have eyes, see.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Look with the nous (soul). Use the eyes and ears of the spiritual. Those who have ears, hear, those who have eyes, see.

I think you entirely missed the point. I responded to the specific, particular SCRIPTURES you gave. My questions were specific to the supportive verses you offered. My questions stand...


I have ears. I hear. I don't claim that ERGO I am able to hear the prayers of all 2 billion believers on earth - including unspoken ones, nor do I claim that as I forward those specific, particular petitions to the Father ergo they are more likely to be answered as the believer desires, or that if I pray for those in a specific job ergo again those petitions are more likely to be answered as the believer desires.







.




.

 

[Dorothea]

I hears. I don't claim to be able to hear the prayers of all 2 billion believers on earth - including unspoken ones, nor do I claim that as I forward those specific, particular petitions to the Father ergo they are more likely to be answered as the believer desires, or that if I pray for those in a specific job ergo again those petitions are more likely to be answered as the believer desires.

.

I'm glad. You shouldn't be able to hear those prayers of billions on earth. You're on earth and limited. Those in His presence in heaven are not. What I was saying is that you aren't seeing what's in the passages because you do not want to. You have some type of wall up, an obstacle of some sort that is preventing you from seeing further. Not just physically seeing but seeing through the eye of the nous - spiritually.

So, no matter what we post in the Scriptures that shows the spirits of men perfect in heaven there worshiping God and doing what they do as said in Revelation, you will not see anything but the flat surface because you are resisting looking deeper into it.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Those in His presence in heaven are not.

I understand...

Then provide the substantiation that as people ascend to heaven, their ears undergo an evolutionary change so that their sense of hearing can now detect the prayers of all 2 billion persons on Earth (including unspoken ones), that all those in heaven know the specific, particular prayer petitions of all 2 billion souls still on Earth, that they therefore specifically forward THOSE particular petitions to the Father and that the Father is more likely to respond as the person on earth desires because of this? And that there are those in heaven specifically assigned to specific jobs (ie the Saint of Miners)?

Thanks.






.

 

[Kristos]

Psa 115:6 They have ears, but do not hear; noses, but do not smell.

 

[LOCO]

So, no matter what we post in the Scriptures that shows the spirits of men perfect in heaven there worshiping God and doing what they do as said in Revelation, you will not see anything but the flat surface because you are resisting looking deeper into it.

Agreed, digging deeper into the verses is difficult to do if you come from a Sola Scriptura background or prefer to interpret Scripture in a vacuum.

 

[sunlover1]

Agreed, digging deeper into the verses is difficult to do if you come from a Sola Scriptura background...

How come?

 

[Incariol]

How come?

Because there have been ~2,000 years of very wise men and women who have come before us, but people who believe in sola scriptura often think they are smarter than they are/were and think it is a sin to take their opinions into consideration.

 

[LOCO]

How come?

If you are interpreting Scripture in a vacuum, i.e. not considering the social, political, cultural, linguistic and religious norms of the day then your interpretation is based on a shallow premise.

The other issue is whose interpretation is considered valid?

Any fool can say 'this is what this verse means' and he can probably come up with some good supporting arguments but is his interpretation valid and by whose authority does he/she speak?

Anyone can assume to speak for Jesus and the Bible, that is why we have so many different christian communities. When Joe Bloggs doesn't like what his elders and pastors say he packs up his bongos and starts another church.

Are all of these varying interpretations and doctrines valid and correct?

Do they all have authority?

Are they all guided by the Holy Spirit when interpreting Scripture?

I don't think so.

The Holy Spirit can never be the author of confusion.

 

[Stryder06]

I don't see it in this article, but then everything changed when Christ died on the Cross, descended to Hades, and resurrected. Although, we have discussed Rachel in Jeremiah knowing about the killing of the babies by Herod. So, she was quite alive, as was Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration of Christ.

Would you mind showing me that scripture in Jeremiah? I meant to ask you about that earlier. And what exactly changed when Christ died?

What is BoG?

Breath of God. Sorry

Yes, of course the people in the OT did not see it as Christ sees it. People during OT time were separated from Christ spiritually as well as physically,

I'm going to need you to expand upon this a little more for me if you don't mind.

...but were still aware of what was going on when they passed on because of the evidence of Rachel and the other two I mentioned, before His death and resurrection by being in hades in their tombs with their bodies awaiting His first coming. Their souls/spirits still separated from their bodies but were in the same vacinity (tombs) with their bodies because the separation from God still existed until Christ's dying and resurrecting. The separation of soul/spirit from the body was the result of the Fall - the sin of Adam and Eve. Before that, the body was made whole and wasn't meant to be separated, but sin happened, and death was the result of the sin, which caused the unnatural separation of soul/spirit from the bodies.

Okay, can you show me where man's body was united with a soul/spirit? And just so I know where you're coming from, do you believe the soul and spirit are the same thing? I've been told they're different.

Christ conquered death. Broke the chains of hades, tore the veil in the Temple from top to bottom (signifying Top to Bottom rather than Bottom to Top because it was an act of God), so no longer are we spiritually separated from Him, but with Him and in Him when we pass physically from here. Our bodies still lie in the tombs "dead" until the Final Judgment and Resurrection.

Christ did conquer death, and did remove the separation between God and us, allowing us to come to His throne of grace directly instead of through a human intercessor. You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the body, by most, is looked at as nothing more then a shell of sorts in which the soul/spirit resides.

 

[sunlover1]

Because there have been ~2,000 years of very wise men and women who have come before us

There have been. There still are.
Because some men/women, get/got their wisdom directly from God.

But some don't.
How do YOU tell the difference?

, but people who believe in sola scriptura often think they are smarter than they are/were and think it is a sin to take their opinions into consideration.

No they don't.
They think that if they lack wisdom, they should get it from God.
(This is what SCRIPTURE says, so SS would certainly follow Scripture)

If you are interpreting Scripture in a vacuum, i.e. not considering the social, political, cultural, linguistic and religious norms of the day then your interpretation is based on a shallow premise.

Sure would be.
Same as those who "interpret" Scripture by asking their preacher (priest)
"what does this mean"
Shallow to ask man rather than God.. who tells us to come TO HIM.

The other issue is whose interpretation is considered valid?

None more valid than the author's.

Any fool can say 'this is what this verse means' and he can probably come up with some good supporting arguments but is his interpretation valid and by whose authority does he/she speak?

Why worry over what some man says.
I ALWAYS check with God.

Anyone can assume to speak for Jesus and the Bible, that is why we have so many different christian communities. When Joe Bloggs doesn't like what his elders and pastors say he packs up his bongos and starts another church.

And if God's leading him to do that, WTG Joe!

(There are a LOT of corrupt elders and pastors out there who
are NOT following God ...........priests too i bet)

Are all of these varying interpretations and doctrines valid and correct?

Do they all have authority?

Are they all guided by the Holy Spirit when interpreting Scripture?

I don't think so.

Neither do i.

The Holy Spirit can never be the author of confusion.

Absolutely
He's given us a SOUND Mind.
The mind of Christ in fact.

For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?"
But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.

Praise Jesus!

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I'm glad. You shouldn't be able to hear those prayers of billions on earth. You're on earth and limited. Those in His presence in heaven are not. What I was saying is that you aren't seeing what's in the passages because you do not want to. You have some type of wall up, an obstacle of some sort that is preventing you from seeing further. Not just physically seeing but seeing through the eye of the nous - spiritually.

So, no matter what we post in the Scriptures that shows the spirits of men perfect in heaven there worshiping God and doing what they do as said in Revelation, you will not see anything but the flat surface because you are resisting looking deeper into it.

It is not that we don't believe the scriptures that you post, it's that we don't believe the connection that you're making about those who are in heaven hears the prayers. Scripture doesn't tell us that they are hearing the prayers, it is through tradition that you're believing this because not one scripture that was posted told us that they hear our prayers. We know that God hears our prayers because scripture have said so.