Sadden much

[Immanuel]

I'm not sure if this is the right section to put this in, but I'd figure it'd be ok since it dealt with archeology.

I just read an article in Newsweek about Iraq's archeology and the bible. They are constantly digging up evidence to the truth. It bothers me so much that even with the truth right there, people are still suppressing the truth. Don't they understand that all they have to do is read the bible if they want to understand the culture of the ancient times? The bible is God-breathed and all history. I don't get it. Why are people so prideful? What do they want God to do? Come back right now and then it's too late to repent? If all these artifacts are to be revealed for people to believe, then it wouldn't be faith anymore, but just mere facts and Jesus would be nothing more than _____ . I can't even find the word for it.

The Holy Spirit that lives inside of me deeply grieves for these things. I don't know what to pray for anymore.

I mean it's exciting and all that God is revealing himself, but the thing that really bothers me is the people who are so hard against the Lord. Jesus loves them sooooooooooo much! But they still deny him and purposely look for things to shut him out of the world. People spend their lives looking for their heart's desires, dreams, and goals, but without Jesus, they all mean nothing. People want love, care, and they will never find it apart from Jesus because God is love. Anything else is just artifical selfish love. There needs to be a spiritual awakening all around the world.

Please as a body of Christ, let's pray together for this world. That we may rock the gates of hell.

Here's the article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5785074/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/
If you scroll all the way down, it has other articles about more biblical things.

 

[Micaiah]

Great to hear someone with a burden for those who are blind to the truth. May you never lose the burden, and may you be fruitful in your Christian labour (labor).

 

[Doc Dilly]

Amen. It's very hard to understand sometimes. Even with the artifact aside, how do you look up in the night sky and find it in yourself to say there is no God? How does that happen? Remeber when the Martian rover saw a 'face' on Mars? People were excited because evidence of design indicates a possible intelligence behind the design. The Martian 'face' turned to be shadows. However, here on earth we are surrounded with evidence of design and order constantly. And yet, we're told by modern 'wise men' that it's all an accident, that the appearance of design is also like a mere shadow.
Amazing.

To call us an accident is like calling Michelangelo's 'David' a piece of wind erosion. It's like saying you can spill your paints on the floor and form the Mona Lisa, and yet neither of those works of art is as complex as one single plant cell.
And we call THAT the work of random chance?

Wow.

CS Lewis said that atheism is a belief for boys and I'm inclined to agree. I guess some people can not handle the ramifications and responsiblity that comes with the ackowledgement that there is an all-powerful, Sovereign God.

When all is said and done and we get to take a look at Satan, I don't think he'll look like a vicious monster, but a mewling, spoiled brat, stomping his feet and demanding things HIS own way to the bitter end.

There's much to pray for. Thanks for posting.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I'm not sure if this is the right section to put this in, but I'd figure it'd be ok since it dealt with archeology.

I just read an article in Newsweek about Iraq's archeology and the bible. They are constantly digging up evidence to the truth. It bothers me so much that even with the truth right there, people are still suppressing the truth. Don't they understand that all they have to do is read the bible if they want to understand the culture of the ancient times? The bible is God-breathed and all history. I don't get it. Why are people so prideful? What do they want God to do? Come back right now and then it's too late to repent? If all these artifacts are to be revealed for people to believe, then it wouldn't be faith anymore, but just mere facts and Jesus would be nothing more than _____ . I can't even find the word for it.

The Holy Spirit that lives inside of me deeply grieves for these things. I don't know what to pray for anymore.

I mean it's exciting and all that God is revealing himself, but the thing that really bothers me is the people who are so hard against the Lord. Jesus loves them sooooooooooo much! But they still deny him and purposely look for things to shut him out of the world. People spend their lives looking for their heart's desires, dreams, and goals, but without Jesus, they all mean nothing. People want love, care, and they will never find it apart from Jesus because God is love. Anything else is just artifical selfish love. There needs to be a spiritual awakening all around the world.

Please as a body of Christ, let's pray together for this world. That we may rock the gates of hell.

Here's the article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5785074/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/
If you scroll all the way down, it has other articles about more biblical things.

If you want the real conspiracy it is the church leaders who have some familiarity with modern archeology. They do not tell their respective flocks just how much the science of archeology has shown the Biblical history to be false. Most Christians do not know this or want to believe it is some atheist conspiracy. But I challenge you to research modern archeology through the professional journals. You will find the picture painted in Scripture is almost completely rejected. A good example is the almost complete rejection of Exodus in archeological circles. And please don't say these folks are atheists and are conspiring against Christians, many of these scientists are Christians. But this information is not well known by the general public. It remains in the science journals. And the theologians who do know this keep it quiet lest it upset the paying customers, the exception to some extent being the Catholic church through it's universities where much of this archeological research is undertaken.

 

[Doc Dilly]

It is always good to check things out, Null. But I was just wondering, and please don't take this the wrong way, but how do you feel about verses like Romans 10:9? I'm sure you know it: 'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth, the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.' Because if Biblical history is false, then maybe that isn't true either. What do you think?

 

[Immanuel]

It is always good to check things out, Null. But I was just wondering, and please don't take this the wrong way, but how do you feel about verses like Romans 10:9? I'm sure you know it: 'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth, the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.' Because if Biblical history is false, then maybe that isn't true either. What do you think?

I was just thinking the same thing. If the bible has falsehood, then we cannot take it all for a fact. Either we believe everything or we don't because the bible is suppose to be God-breathed right? So either God is lying to us or he's not. So we cannot fully rely on the bible, then where does our salvation lead us? If the bible is a lie, then I cannot be sure where I would be when I leave this earth.

But I would have to agree with you. We should research our stuff.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I am not a fan of the slippery slope argument which is what you are implying. That whole if you reject one part of the Bible what is to stop you rejecting all of it is a childish appeal at best. The Bible is not a history (or science) text pure and simple.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I was just thinking the same thing. If the bible has falsehood, then we cannot take it all for a fact. Either we believe everything or we don't because the bible is suppose to be God-breathed right? So either God is lying to us or he's not. So we cannot fully rely on the bible, then where does our salvation lead us? If the bible is a lie, then I cannot be sure where I would be when I leave this earth.

But I would have to agree with you. We should research our stuff.

This is my real problem with literalism. You have painted yourself into a position where to maintain the literalism you have to suspend logic and perform mental contortions. The Bible is not a history or science text, period. You cannot rely on the Bible for these topics. You can rely on it spiritually.

 

[Immanuel]

This is my real problem with literalism. You have painted yourself into a position where to maintain the literalism you have to suspend logic and perform mental contortions. The Bible is not a history or science text, period. You cannot rely on the Bible for these topics. You can rely on it spiritually.

But everything starts from the spiritual realm that effects us in the physical. We were created from the Spirit that is God. Just curious, why are you a Christian and believe the things that you do believe? What does it mean to you?

ok, me going to bed now. I'll check back tomorrow. Must get some ZzZzZzs

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

It is always good to check things out, Null. But I was just wondering, and please don't take this the wrong way, but how do you feel about verses like Romans 10:9? I'm sure you know it: 'That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth, the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.' Because if Biblical history is false, then maybe that isn't true either. What do you think?

1. This is an appeal to the consequences of a belief, a logical fallacy. Whether something is true is not dependent on how it will affect our lives.

2. If one does not view the OT as primarily a historical text, the historical problems aren't important.

 

[seebs]

What if locusts don't have exactly four feet? What if there's a seed smaller than the mustard seed?

But...

You could find 1 Corinthians 13 scribbled in crayon on a cocktail napkin, and you'd know it was the perfect truth.

The Bible is a book about faith and morals. You want history? Go bug an archeologist. You want to know how to live your life? The Bible could help with that.

 

[Doc Dilly]

Uh, okay, but the question still stands unanswered....Romans 10:9, true or false?

 

[artybloke]

It's true. Now, what has that got to do with whether the book of Genesis is factual or not? The book of Genesis was never intended to be a book of facts anyway; it was intended as a book of stories to illustrate certain truths about God and his relationship with the Isrealites. Not unlike, in principle, the parables of Jesus. Unless of course you believe there really was a Prodigal Son, who actually walked about the ancient near east.

And if Jesus, as the Son of God, can tell stories to illustrate his truths, why can't the writers of the Torah?

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The Romans verse is true.

Genesis 1 is true.

Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings are true.

But historically accurate? That's a very different question.

 

[Doc Dilly]

How can these books be 'true' but not 'historically accurate?' There must not have been a King David, or a Solomon or Moses because these are historical figures. Therefore, Jesus could not have lived, because He would also be considered a historical figure. Truth is an all encompassing concept: a thing is either true or it isn't. 4*4 doesn't occasionally equal 15, you can't say 'close enough.' Toss out Genesis and you toss out our foundation, after that you can just pick and choose what you wish to believe and that sounds exactly like what you're doing.

 

[Null-Geodesic]

How can these books be 'true' but not 'historically accurate?' There must not have been a King David, or a Solomon or Moses because these are historical figures. Therefore, Jesus could not have lived, because He would also be considered a historical figure. Truth is an all encompassing concept: a thing is either true or it isn't. 4*4 doesn't occasionally equal 15, you can't say 'close enough.' Toss out Genesis and you toss out our foundation, after that you can just pick and choose what you wish to believe and that sounds exactly like what you're doing.

Ever heard of poetry? Things can be true without being fact. Is this so hard to accept.


Was Jesus thus a liar with the Parables?

 

[seebs]

Is the tale of the prodigal son "true"? Yes. Did it happen? I have no idea.

 

[Immanuel]

Ever heard of poetry? Things can be true without being fact. Is this so hard to accept.


Was Jesus thus a liar with the Parables?

I agree that some of the bible was there to teach us things like Jesus' parables, but things like the fall of man, the flood, the wars, SALVATION, etc...cannot be ignored.

If something is a fact, then it has to be true. Just like in the truth table. Both things must be true for something to be true. All else is false. The psalms was written from the depths of these Kings' hearts. They expressed themselves for God and for their beloved so that we may learn from them, and look at the past events as an example for the future. Why do you think those things were written in the bible.

What are some of the things that you do not believe in the bible to be true? I'm curious. I really am. The bible is God-breathed. You either believe all of it or none of it. When I first became a Christian. I had problems believing that people in the Old Testament lived pass 100 years old even pass 500 years old. I thought that was so bogus. But it made sense when you start to look at things from the eyes of God (from the spiritual eyes). Actually, you kind of remind me of me when I first became a Christian. There is nothing more for me or anyone to say to get our point across, but only God. So.... I really pray that.....

.... that the fullness of God's Word will penetrated deep inside of your heart. For the word of God is full of living power cutting deep into our innermost thoughts and desires. It exposes us for who we really are. May the Lord's words cut deep into your soul cutting bones and marrows, that you experience him fully.
In Christ always,
Immanuel

 

[Null-Geodesic]

I agree that some of the bible was there to teach us things like Jesus' parables

Thats the point we are trying to get across, nice of you to come aboard.

What are some of the things that you do not believe in the bible to be true? I'm curious. I really am. The bible is God-breathed. You either believe all of it or none of it.

Grasshoppers do not have 4 legs. Mustard seeds are not the least of all seeds. Check the lineages in the OT, some complete errors in there. Check the Gospels, full of inconsistencies. Need I really go on. There are dozens of lists of these, Google them.

When I first became a Christian. I had problems believing that people in the Old Testament lived pass 100 years old even pass 500 years old. I thought that was so bogus. But it made sense when you start to look at things from the eyes of God (from the spiritual eyes).

Well I am sad that reason and common sense have been tossed aside. People did not live for these silly mythological lifespans. Check out free radicals and their effects on the human body.

Yes it makes sense spiritually because it is teaching us a spiritual lesson via story not via fact. Remember my post bringing up Parables? Which you agreed that it is a lesson being taught but not via fact.

 

[Immanuel]

Null, just one verse and I need not to say anything else "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:2

If the bible is inconsistent and all that you say, then everything that we believe in is a lie, Jesus died for nothing, and any religion will do for salvation.

I will not say anything else but that and I will try to keep you in prayer.