Sad thing: christians condemning chrsitians

[Sharky]

K i've just about seen too much of this over and over again. What is it with christians these days? I'm sad to see these things happen especially when we as children of God should be uplifting each other, watching over each other and keeping in fellowship with God with each other.

But i don't see those things. Why?

Everytime, i'm out there, there's a christian debating with another christian.

To complicate things, christians basically... complicate things to cause others to stumble and even if they didn't know it or intend it, they do it anyway even when they do!

Churches are condemning other churches based on mere opinions.

Christians go on TV to show the world that this christian is evil. Christians spread lies around based on their pessimistic views of the world. "Oh no this bible is evil, this version is the ONLY way." "Oh man here's a weird christian he's wearing a red hat. He's lukewarm because he shouldn't wear a hat!"

Other christians fight with other christians over stupid things like what kind of shoes they wear.

More worse, i see christians condemning other christians to hell. They call them lukewarm, bitter, sinful, evil, wicked when in reality it's not TRUE!

What does it feel like? Imagine i come to you and see you breathing air and i say to you, you are going to hell because you are breathing.

Sounds stupid? It should, because then you got a pretty good idea what alot of christians are doing these days which is very sad

We should be acting in love, not opinions. We should be edifying people, not putting them down because they don't do what you expect them to do. We should be helping weaker christians, not debating with them. We should be plowing a striaght, narrow path to God for them, NOT GOING ON TV TO CONDEMN THEM!

Do you see where i'm going? Let's not be like the world, debating, arguing, opionated responses, pessimistic hatreds. We should be acting in Love to each other. What will God say about you when you condemn this other christian? Will He say "Well done my child." or will He say "You thought wrong about him/her."

Let's ask that question to ourselves when we start to lose control of our judgement. Because the last thing i want to do is cause a christian to stumble all because i thought he was wicked...

 

[seebs]

Amen.

 

[Neenie]

we as children of God should be uplifting each other, watching over each other and keeping in fellowship with God with each other.

Amen!

 

[OracleX]

This is something that has hit me over and over. I have attended several different churches over my life and seen this over and over. Infact I see this a lot in my current church and yet I will remain.

You know what I see the problem to be in many cases? Pride. Plain and simple. Everyone wants to be right. Not only that, but many want to have a claim to fame. They want to be different.

The other issue with this topic is something which is harder to object to. When it comes to beliefs, religion, God, faith and these sort of things, people believe what they believe and believe it whole heartedly. Unfortunately some believe it without verifying it for themselves. They take whatever is said from the pulpit at face value and believe it as faultless truth.

I have left my church some Sunday's struggling with what was said about another demonination or religion or topics like music. I have to take these things and think and pray about them. Then spend time in the Word and verify them. I have even called him on some of his comments.

Basically what it comes down to is that as long as Christ tarries we will have this problem. As long as there are people who can read, we will have this problem. As long as people are able to think for themself, we will have this problem. As long as sin is present in this world, this will happen. Satan is not stupid. Why just attack from the outside when you can strike blows from within.

Realize too that this will not get better but worse.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

What unites us is greater than what divides us. Paul tells us not to waste our time wiht fruitless/pointless controversy.
Agree to disagree and then get back to the harvest.

 

[MichaelFJF]

I agree with "agree to disagree." It's tough to do though, if you're one of those people that thinks they "have it right" and everyone else is just plain wrong. I'm not a biblical scholar, so many times I have to rely on the opinions of those who study the bible as a vocation.
If you combine the "we have it right" position with the bible talking about "leading one of my flock astray", you might get the beginnings of the in-fighting the OP suggests. Some defenders might think they're doing others a favor by pointing out the error of their ways. Unfortunately, there a lot more who just have a deep seeded need to be right - about everything.
I've said for a long time that I think some Baptists would make terrible Catholics; some Catholics would make terrible Mormons; etc. I have no problem believing that God has allowed for different routes to Him. I think the Catholic church is right for me. I don't presume to know what's right for everyone. If Martin Luther or Joseph Smith knowingly led people astray, they'll answer for it. The people who believed them though.........well, I've long said it's not my job to decide who goes to heaven, but I do believe that if you live your life the way the bible teaches you, your chances are pretty good. Anyway, my .02.

(Please disregard my sig. this time. Sometimes it does take more than a sentence.)M

 

[Rafael]

Jesus said to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the arrogance they had towards others. My favorite parable was the one of the good Samariatan - people that the Jews hated as near unbelievers, but Jesus made the Samariatan the hero of doing God's will by stopping and giving aid to the stranger who was beat up and left for dead in the road. The big shot religious elite walked around the bloody beat up man or walked on the other sid of the road. The Pharisees, too, were famous for trying to justify themelves with arguing with Jesus all the time and trying to condemn Him and His message. It is easy to become just like them and neglect love if we are not careful as the Lord told us to be.

 

[mle]

I John 4:7-8
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[Shannonkish]

This is a poem written by a good friend of mine... I think it fits well here..

did you hear?
greenwood
http://devoted.to/greenwood

did you hear about the woman lying naked in her bed?
forced to sell herself to buy her daily bread
but starving and disheveled as she sat upon the floor
aristocratic gentleman would spit and call her harlot

she didn't need to hear that she was living in the mire
there are others more deserving of such beauracratic fire
when all she felt was brimstone from the righteous up aboves
he didn't need to feel this way when all she needs is love

go on and turn to crimson hue
forgetting what he did for you
he did for every man

did you hear about the man who doesn't sleep at night
he was sent a thousand miles away and forced into a fight
when a political decision let him leave that place
they only called him murderer and spit upon his face
but every day does he recall the face of his friends
as one by one they were struck down and met their bitter ends
he was prepared to give his life for each his fellow mates
and like his ancient counterpart they condemned him to the gates

of hell fire and of brimstone to every man his own
but blinded by hypocrisy the righteous cast their stone

go on...

did you hear about the woman without a family
knocked up by a sailor who then slipped out to sea
when she told her parents begging mercy at their feet
they took away her only hope and put her on the street
when people that she thought were friends just sent her on her way
or took her in to lecture her and speak of judgment day
when walking took her to that clinic she could take
back that burden made by one stupid mistake

but agitated by this great offense unto their soul
the morality of one became the hatred of the whole
and crying of injustice they beat her with their creed
forgetting she was human if you pricked her she would bleed

go on...

and now redeemed by crimson hue
his sacrifice will make brand new
this burnt and ravaged land
"Come forth my child and take my hand"

 

[looksgood]

There are actualy a lot of reasons for this.
1: Wolves come in to separate the sheep. Spreading herracy and blasphemos doctorin.
2: Pride of HAVING to be right (I have been accused of this even though my reasons were not for my own self glory, so be carefull when you say the other person is just in pride)
3: Ignorance of Gods word, and God Himself because of it.

I for one am one of those kjv only people. I will stand up for that because I have found BIG doctrinal, and some blasphemos things in others. I know that many people trust in them though. So I am at a conflict on this thing. I will not move from this position because I know better.

But at the same time I will not say someone is not a christian for trusting the other book. I relise that some people just don't know much and are ignorant. I was too and still am no doubt about many things. So I just hold my ground, speak my mind, and move on.

Judging if another is a christian or not is actualy easy though.
1: Do they call on God for mercy?
2: Are they seeking to be like Him?
3: If they are shown Gods word do they make corrections in their life and mind to follow it?

Fairly simple.

 

[Shannonkish]

<quote>But at the same time I will not say someone is not a christian for trusting the other book. I relise that some people just don't know much and are ignorant.</quote>

Wow.. that is really harsh... I don't want to debate with you.. however, I think you were out of line for saying this. As someone who has examined the so called blasphemous things found in other versions of the Bible, I have found that they are just as reliable as the KJV bible. I could debate this for hours with you, but I won't. Saying that I am ignorant because I do not follow your doctrine of KJV only is not only harsh it is judgemental and rude.

 

[looksgood]

LOL, how did I know someone was gona have to open their mouth at that? Friend I am alway growing. At one time I thought of the other ones as perfectly fine. But as I began to read some things in them I relised there were some things I just could not abide with.

I am not really wanting to debate and that is not the reason I posted here, nor is it why I said what I did. But I will alway hear a person out, and make my judgments after I hear the whole matter. I do know how to change my thoughts. So If you would like you can pm me to show me how the things in the new ones are ok. I mainly have a problem with the niv at the moment. I am sure you have heard the "problems" in it by my view. So I will let ya speak your case.

Love ya.



See...this is how dissagreements should be handled. One side gives their reasons as the other listens and gives theirs. Not one person hating the other.

 

[MsAnne]

Your entire post was excellent, Michael. I wish all those who choose to divide the body would read your words.

..Unfortunately, there a lot more who just have a deep seeded need to be right - about everything.

I picked out this one sentence. I came from a background where I saw many people more interested in being right than loving people. They were so dogmatic about "the Law" there was no room for compassion. They were extremely "religious" people. They knew The Word. They knew doctrine. They knew The Law. But heaven help you if you didn't agree with them. I saw hurt feelings. I saw people reaching out, only to be told that until they saw things the "right" way, there was really no place for them.

God help me to never be that kind of person.

There is a tender balance between believing firmly in what you know in God, and having hope and compassion for those who may see things differently.

 

[Sharky]

LOL, how did I know someone was gona have to open their mouth at that? Friend I am alway growing. At one time I thought of the other ones as perfectly fine. But as I began to read some things in them I relised there were some things I just could not abide with.

I am not really wanting to debate and that is not the reason I posted here, nor is it why I said what I did. But I will alway hear a person out, and make my judgments after I hear the whole matter. I do know how to change my thoughts. So If you would like you can pm me to show me how the things in the new ones are ok. I mainly have a problem with the niv at the moment. I am sure you have heard the "problems" in it by my view. So I will let ya speak your case.

Love ya.



See...this is how dissagreements should be handled. One side gives their reasons as the other listens and gives theirs. Not one person hating the other.

There you go. That's the stuff we should be doing.

 

[Sharky]

Really good responses.

I'm really here talking about the real christians who knowingly and unknowingly do these things. Oh no they are saved indeed, a full blown child of God but if pride is going to cause people to stumble, then they're going to have to stop it and keep such debates to themselves.

It does and WILL cause christians to stumble. Irnoically, it puts people, on the brink of getting saved, off christianity for good because of people who like to shove the Law in their faces, tell them that if you eat this you're not saved, if you watch this, you're not saved etc etc etc. I've been like this before, and i kick myself for doing that. I don't know how many christians i caused to stumble because of my pride. We deliberately forget that we are saved by Grace. Not by what we eat, do or like.

If a christian is doing wrong, you rebuke them. NOT condemn them.

 

[OracleX]

Pride is such a dangerous thing. It is so damaging to a Christian (and everyone else too). God is so wonderful to grant each and every one of us with gifts and talents. Then some of us (I would say most if not all), myself included, take those gifts and talents and call them our own. Once this happens we lose our focus and purpose. How can we use our gifts and talents to reach people or help people when we are doing it for our own glory. As soon as we take hold of things and call them our own, we take our eyes off Christ. We ignore the grace and wonderful gifts He has showered on us.

Pride has been something that I have struggled with a lot in the past and I have to really be careful in the present and future not to let it grab hold in my life. I have had to give up (or had taken away) much due to falls because of pride. One day God will restore those gifts by His grace. I pray that I will never forget who has created me and given me all that I have and am.

1 Corinthians 15:10 "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

 

[micahtexas]

I have run into this way too many times. Its the reason I bounced from church to church several times before i settled on the one I currently attend. Sure this one has its moments too but I cant make a change in the church if I dont stick around. We all need to lift this up in prayer. I would appreciate some agreement and prayer along with me for unity and accountibility within in the church. Thanks.

 

[Yitzchak]

I do share a similar frustration as what is expressed in this thread. However, in my view there are more problems involved than just pride and people wanting to be right. There are frequently struggles with hurts and unforgiveness and a frustration at a lack of accountability within the body of Christ to name a few. I have been on both sides of this issue in my personal experience.

For example, on the point of acountability The bible prescribes how to handle when a brother or sister sins against me and how to handle a heresy. But part of that process involves the church weilding authority. In 1 Corinthians the church is rebuked by the Apostle Paul for taking one another to secular court. Paul says is there not any among you who can judge such matters or isn't it simply better to suffer loss in the matter rather than taking it before the world.

My point is this. There are often legitimate issues to be addressed. Taking these issues before the world though, whether it be financial or divorce or whatever does present a terrible witness. I include divorce because the divorce rate is so high among christians and as with many of these other issues it is paraded through secular courts.

I guess my bottomline is this. I won't take away from anything you have said but would like to add to the list a few. Selfishness and anger/bitterness, rebellion and just plain greed. To put it in one phrase - Disorderly conduct.

It is frustrating to observe all these things within the body of Christ. One caution to us all though. In our frustration at the problem , let us beware that we don't ironically become part of the problem in our criticism of the problems.

The Lord loves His church and has invested so much in her. Those of us who glimpse the problems need to band together in freverant prayer for true revival. We need to encourage oneanother and display a different spirit and attitude about us.