Sad history

[Akita Suggagaki]

The German government failed to solve the problems caused by the Great Depression. Germany was politically divided. This made passing new laws almost impossible because of disagreements in the German parliament. Many Germans lost faith in their leaders’ ability to govern.

Radical political groups like the Nazi Party and the Communist Party became more prominent. They took advantage of the economic and political chaos. They used propaganda to attract Germans who were fed up with the political stalemate.


There has been a lot on lately about Nazi Germany, world on Fire on PBS, All the Light We Cannot See on Netflix, etc. It makes me wonder how people could get so swept up in such madness. Have we learned anything? I am really beginning to wonder.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis won followers by promising to create a strong Germany. The Nazis promised to

• fix the economy and put people back to work;
• return Germany to the status of a great European, and even world, power;
• regain territory Germany had lost in World War I;
• create a strong authoritarian German government;
• and unite all Germans along racial and ethnic lines.

The Nazis played on people’s hopes, fears, and prejudices. They also offered scapegoats.

Hitler Comes to Power: How, When, & Key Dates

Hitler rose to power during a time of economic and political instability in Germany. Learn more about how and when Hitler came to power.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

 

[Pommer]

The German government failed to solve the problems caused by the Great Depression. Germany was politically divided. This made passing new laws almost impossible because of disagreements in the German parliament. Many Germans lost faith in their leaders’ ability to govern.

Radical political groups like the Nazi Party and the Communist Party became more prominent. They took advantage of the economic and political chaos. They used propaganda to attract Germans who were fed up with the political stalemate.


There has been a lot on lately about Nazi Germany, world on Fire on PBS, All the Light We Cannot See on Netflix, etc. It makes me wonder how people could get so swept up in such madness. Have we learned anything? I am really beginning to wonder.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis won followers by promising to create a strong Germany. The Nazis promised to

• fix the economy and put people back to work;
• return Germany to the status of a great European, and even world, power;
• regain territory Germany had lost in World War I;
• create a strong authoritarian German government;
• and unite all Germans along racial and ethnic lines.

The Nazis played on people’s hopes, fears, and prejudices. They also offered scapegoats.

Hitler Comes to Power: How, When, & Key Dates

Hitler rose to power during a time of economic and political instability in Germany. Learn more about how and when Hitler came to power.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Yes, Hitler was a masterful politician.
He was also a megalomaniac and decided that he knew better than his Generals and made several blunders that cost Germany any chance of coming close to winning or suing for peace.

 

[FireDragon76]

Germany wasn't just politically divided, there was also a cultural divide during the Weimar republic, and increasing tribalism. There was also violence in the streets, between Communists and Antifa, and the brown shirts. And of course, Germany had severe economic strain during the depression, due to how the Great Powers were both taxing the German state through reparations payments, while at the same time investing in Germany's recovery (which lead to inflationary monetary policies).

History has shown people can only tolerate so much chaos, before they give into authoritarians.

 

[Astrid]

The German government failed to solve the problems caused by the Great Depression. Germany was politically divided. This made passing new laws almost impossible because of disagreements in the German parliament. Many Germans lost faith in their leaders’ ability to govern.

Radical political groups like the Nazi Party and the Communist Party became more prominent. They took advantage of the economic and political chaos. They used propaganda to attract Germans who were fed up with the political stalemate.


There has been a lot on lately about Nazi Germany, world on Fire on PBS, All the Light We Cannot See on Netflix, etc. It makes me wonder how people could get so swept up in such madness. Have we learned anything? I am really beginning to wonder.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis won followers by promising to create a strong Germany. The Nazis promised to

• fix the economy and put people back to work;
• return Germany to the status of a great European, and even world, power;
• regain territory Germany had lost in World War I;
• create a strong authoritarian German government;
• and unite all Germans along racial and ethnic lines.

The Nazis played on people’s hopes, fears, and prejudices. They also offered scapegoats.

Hitler Comes to Power: How, When, & Key Dates

Hitler rose to power during a time of economic and political instability in Germany. Learn more about how and when Hitler came to power.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

They did what they promised.
Without the insane racism and overreach,
they could have done...who knows what.

Japan tried overeach too.

Both nations were devastated by the war but are
again among the top nations.

 

[Astrid]

Germany wasn't just politically divided, there was also a cultural divide during the Weimar republic, and increasing tribalism. There was also violence in the streets, between Communists and Antifa, and the brown shirts. And of course, Germany had severe economic strain during the depression, due to how the Great Powers were both taxing the German state through reparations payments, while at the same time investing in Germany's recovery (which lead to inflationary monetary policies).

History has shown people can only tolerate so much chaos, before they give into authoritarians.

And rightly so.
We in China endured chaos far longer, far
beyond what westerners ( who did so much to
cause the chaos) know a thing about.

Despite the errors and excesses of Mao,
China has had peace security and prosperity
unimagined. By means of an authoritarian
government.

Your Trump offers stern, commonsense means of
dealing with the chaos in America, the other side
is led by the feckless and senile. promising to
double down on the polucies that brought you
to this disaster.

 

[MForbes]

There are some parallels with what happened in Germany and what's happening today in the U.S.

 

[Astrid]

There are some parallels with what happened in Germany and what's happening today in the U.S.

By your avatar you are a marxman?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

History has shown people can only tolerate so much chaos, before they give into authoritarians.

Willing to sacrifice freedom for order? When things go off the rails it looks as though people go along with it th insanity and inhumanity just to survive, knowing all is in despair.

 

[Astrid]

Willing to sacrifice freedom for order? When things go off the rails it looks as though people go along with it th insanity and inhumanity just to survive, knowing all is in despair.

How much freedom of what kind and to what
purpose?

Freedom isnt much if you are hungry and
in constant danger.

Americans speak of " freedom" but are beset
all about with endless laws and regs.

We in China are often enough free in ways americans are not.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

How much freedom of what kind and to what
purpose?

Freedom isnt much if you are hungry and
in constant danger.

Americans speak of " freedom" but are beset
all about with endless laws and regs.

We in China are often enough free in ways americans are not.

Freedom of speech seems to distinguish American freedom from other parts of the world. Along with freedom of the press.
How about those freedoms in China?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

By your avatar you are a marxman?

I thought it was a Communion host.

 

[Astrid]

I thought it was a Communion host.

I never saw one of those.

 

[Astrid]

Freedom of speech seems to distinguish American freedom from other parts of the world. Along with freedom of the press.
How about those freedoms in China?

How much of what kind,who has it, how its used and
abused, and the consequences is a large topic.
For USA, China, and every other society.

 

[Laodicean60]

We in China endured chaos far longer, far
beyond what westerners ( who did so much to
cause the chaos) know a thing about.

China was chaotic before the westerner showed up along with the rest of Asia.

 

[MForbes]

By your avatar you are a marxman?

Marksman. No, I don't call myself that.

I shoot in target competitions.

 

[Nithavela]

They did what they promised.
Without the insane racism and overreach,
they could have done...who knows what.

They didn't do anything. The prosperity of the pre-war years of Nazi germany were bought by stealing from the wealthy minorities and by huge amounts of debt.

The nazi government wasn't strong or efficient, either. It was one of the most inefficient regimes in history, with multiple factions always fighting for dominance and getting in the way of each other.

 

[DaisyDay]

And rightly so.
We in China endured chaos far longer, far
beyond what westerners ( who did so much to
cause the chaos) know a thing about.

Despite the errors and excesses of Mao,
China has had peace security and prosperity
unimagined. By means of an authoritarian
government.

Your Trump offers stern, commonsense means of
dealing with the chaos in America, the other side
is led by the feckless and senile. promising to
double down on the polucies that brought you
to this disaster.

The Donald is feckless and senile? I suspect so.

 

[Ana the Ist]

decided that he knew better than his Generals and made several blunders that cost Germany any chance of coming close to winning or suing for peace.

He came pretty close to winning lol. Had he successfully prevented the British evacuation at Dunkirk, it's not difficult to imagine a scenario where the UK would have surrendered long before the US entered the war....

Then it's just speculation about how well Germany would have done fighting on just an eastern front. It's still debatable...but Russia lost many of its capable military commanders to the purges. They were held off by Finland of all places.

I think the failure at Dunkirk is considered Hitler's blunder...but I don't remember if that's actually true, or evidence contradicting that story was ever found. This actually gives a solid explanation for why the German "pause" actually happened.

The Dunkirk evacuation and the German ‘halt’ order

DR TIM BENBOW Sometimes academics are confronted by arguments with which we disagree, vehemently. Most have something to be said for them or, at the very least, it is possible to appreciate where …

defenceindepth.co

 

[Ana the Ist]

And rightly so.
We in China endured chaos far longer, far
beyond what westerners ( who did so much to
cause the chaos) know a thing about.

I've paid attention to what the west (in general) had done since the "Opium Wars" of the British. I assume that much of what you’re referring to involves the political ideas of the West (capitalism/democracy/communism/socialism/etc). I don't know exactly what you mean though....ideas travel in both directions, and inspire awful behavior sometimes.

Do you know about the torture of US Marines at the hands of the Chinese, the public statements they made renouncing their loyalty to the US and devotion to China? Did you know that it so shocked US officials to see men saying such things we invented a technique or method that must have been used by the Chinese on POWS that we called "brainwashing"?

Did you know that the idea of brainwashing and potential discovery of such methods was the inspiration for several CIA missions like Operation Bluebird and MKULTRA?

I don't blame the Chinese for the atrocious behavior of the CIA against US citizens but the connections are there.

Surely you don't blame the west for capitalism and communism?

Despite the errors and excesses of Mao,
China has had peace security and prosperity
unimagined. By means of an authoritarian
government.

Your Trump offers stern, commonsense means of
dealing with the chaos in America, the other side
is led by the feckless and senile. promising to
double down on the polucies that brought you
to this disaster.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They didn't do anything. The prosperity of the pre-war years of Nazi germany were bought by stealing from the wealthy minorities and by huge amounts of debt.

Wealth of the Jewish people that was stolen was far far less than propaganda proclaimed it to be. I won't argue with the remarks about debt...but sitting here with the trillions in debt we've accumulated doesn't seem like much of an accomplishment.

The nazi government wasn't strong or efficient, either. It was one of the most inefficient regimes in history, with multiple factions always fighting for dominance and getting in the way of each other.

There was a separate issue with the factions like the SS being under direct control of Hitler and the rest of the party being under the control of other figures....but as far as efficiency goes, there was a rather quick and efficient state apparatus compared to many other places like the US.

I think it's a fair point to make post-covid. Many of the non-island nations that had to deal with the crisis and were able to do so quickly and without any internal interference were authoritarian in nature. Places like the US struggled with not only clear resource distribution but clear messaging and significant political upheaval. When you compare a nation like India (a nation of over a billion that holds democratic elections) and a nation like China that has 1 party rule and little internal political dissent....China clearly handled it better.