Sabbatical Year

[Shimshon]

In my mind I was relating letting an israelite servent go free after six years service with sabbath year sorry
As to the count it is possible it is both the 49th and 50th in this way...complete years-living years -begining year by counting in this way the seventh day is the eighth and the first...same with years seventh completed is eighth living and first in new count in this way at forty nine forty nine are complete you are living in fifty and it is the first of the new cycle............for maybe clarity if you dont see what Im getting at...if you ask me how old I am I say forty four but this is how many years Ive completed...every day after my birthday I am living in my fourty fifth year
Three years harvest on sixth covers seven eight and nine living years as even when I plant again it will take almost a year to harvest.

Yes, this is what I was understanding as well. But the problem is the mention of sowing on the eighth day. And then I think of this; When we are born we seem to have an 'ought' (00) year, our first year. So you might think we could place our first year 'after' the completion of the first year. We are a year old. The first did not start 'when we were born' but at our 'first' birthday. Otherwise we would all calculate our age a year more. As you are adjusting for by saying your living in your 45th year, but your only 44.

But, when I think of God saying "this will be the first day of the year for you", and that on the seventh year we are to rest the land. I don't see that whole first year being an 'ought'. I wouldn't think the count started 'after' the completion of the year but at the start of it. So in this way our first year is the period between when we start and when the first year has passed. This is the 'first'. Not an ought (00) As we are always reminded to 'not include the '0' year in calculating the years between BC and AD. The same way there should be no '0' year in the calculating of our age, or the shemitah years, and thus the yovel's.

 

[NannaNae]

Im enjoying reading this post...but have not contributed much because well I dont know enough to contribute much....but in reading this post and thinking of why 8th and provision of three....
The sabbath week is about rest in His finished work
The sabbath year is about rest in the liberty he has provided
The Jubilee year is about rest in the inheritance he has provided.
Would this be of importance to the current conversation?

I know we are supposed to rest but I am a woman I get to worry! <LOL> he lets me..

 

[Shimshon]

so legally , ( and yes I know I am under grace and if I am hungry I will eat because Sabbath is made for man ) so if I don't harvest or make money on it till next Sabbath can I harvest it then ?

This confuses me. The scripture states we can't reap or sow on the shabbat. So, if you don't do it till the next shabbat and harvest it then, are you not still doing it on the shabbat? Or am I misunderstanding you?

I ask that because i suspect Now he made me plant it for such a time , that it was planted for such a time and I but planted it to eat. so strangely I am wondering if there is some ideas about what to do with it until it is needed ..
I mean if we make money from it we draw attention to it.. if we claim it/ expenses on taxes we draw attention to it.. right..
so was it for us or for another time and we need to let it go wild instead..see that is the real reason for my questioning the
laws of it..
because we might should pretend it doesn't exists until it is needed.
and of course I won't be able to keep the kids out of it ,playing and eating as they go.. but maybe not make money with it.
our plan was to HOOP the figs and sell figs after retirement which is around 7-10 years and let them establish good roots until we need them and greenhouse or hoop them . our son contemplates hooping them now to start selling them. but someone just gave him control of a 5 acres of very old huge mature magness pears orchard to sell the pears so he has a huge project now.. almost 100 old pear trees..

and the other wild trees we planted on the property those I listed are for wind breaks and such to protect the hoop houses , . but we could be harvest the wind break rows in the bad times. that is of course is OUR plan....
but I was wonder if there is another plan afoot..
and Yes I too suspect that the next 7 years might be real interesting ... but my trees are still babies now .. but in 7 years most of them will be looking really yummy good.. anyone up for smoked fish and dried fruits when there is nothing in the stores?

I think I understand what you're describing. Your concerned that your kids gleaning is of issue, I don't think so. As I noticed that the poor can eat of the harvest that lay fallow. And your wondering if eating the wild produce is ok. which again I think the scripture says so. I think the whole point is to not work your working fields. No work on shabbat, no harvesting (sow and reap) on shemitah. Now the yovel will throw a real wrench in your plans though. As it not only deals with these things but the releasing of debts and property and workers to their own lands. Which this country has made completely impossilbe to accomplish. Federal lands, welfare poor and all.

 

[Shimshon]

I know we are supposed to rest but I am a woman I get to worry! <LOL> he lets me..

Always trying to be that removed rib arn't ya!

 

[rick357]

For as long as we are living there may not be a completed year to count but we are in the first living year...for instance if this cycle begins when they live in the land then during conquest their is a count down but not to zero but instead as you have pointed out to one which is reasonable since my understanding is that ancient hebrew as with many other ancient people there was no concept of zero as a number. after all there is no count of what does not exist which could also be helpfull in understanding our topic since none for them would not be equated with zero as a numeric measure as it naturaly is to us.

 

[Shimshon]

and of course I won't be able to keep the kids out of it ,playing and eating as they go.. but maybe not make money with it.

What I said earlier about not gleaning should have been applied to the shemitah, not the shabbat. But even on the shabbat we are shown (ex 16) that God provided the food in the field. Yes, they were told not to gather (harvest) the manna on the shabbat. But they were told that God would provide food from the field for all. The faith was in trusting in God's sixth day provision to last through the shabbat. But they were to trust God to feed them from the field every day, and that what would not normally last a second day would last 'only' on the shabbat.

I think you clued into the key though, that they are not 'working' but playing and are not making money from the gleaning. I think they fall into the same catagory as Yeshua and those who ate from the field on shabbat and were wrongfully accused of breaking it.

 

[Shimshon]

For as long as we are living there may not be a completed year to count but we are in the first living year...for instance if this cycle begins when they live in the land then during conquest their is a count down but not to zero but instead as you have pointed out to one which is reasonable since my understanding is that ancient hebrew as with many other ancient people there was no concept of zero as a number. after all there is no count of what does not exist which could also be helpfull in understanding our topic since none for them would not be equated with zero as a numeric measure as it naturaly is to us.

Then the yovel would be associated with the eighth day. And the three years could be from halfway through the sixth, the shemitah (7th), the yovel (8th), and half way through the ninth or first year. In this way we would be eathing the old in the ninth before the harvest has come.

BUT what about the sowing on the eighth day?

Lev 25:20 And if you say, 'What shall we eat in the seventh year, if we may not sow or gather in our crop?' 21 I will command my blessing on you in the sixth year, so that it will produce a crop sufficient for three years. 22When you sow in the eighth year, you will be eating some of the old crop; you shall eat the old until the ninth year, when its crop arrives.
​

The eighth seems to be in reference to the first. But then the mention of a ninth year, which again appears as a first. What keeps throwing me here is verse 22. It's supposed to be the yovel, how can there be sowing in it? The only way this works is for the eighth to be the first, not a seperate year. The same way as referred to the shabbat cycle. But as I see scripture state, the yovel is a seperate year, the 50th year. As further indicated by the mention of the ninth year.

 

[NannaNae]

"The jubilee year was for releasing debt's and returning to ones property. And this makes utter sense then that the dates the yovel fall on will have extreme ramifications for Yisrael, both people and land.. And maybe the reason America is seemingly connected to the happenings of the shemitah is that we have been the place where most of Yisrael has wandered during the exile. No, maybe every place where God's people go they are affected by the shemitah, and so are the nations they have been scattered to? That seem's more likely. The reason world events happen on the shemitah is because God's children have been scattered into all the world? "

how this is true I can't explain now.. it is a kind of political mess. . but it truth. it was for the good.
Isa 23:17
At the end of seventy years, the LORD will deal with Tyre. She will return to her lucrative prostitution and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.( they sea/water traders )

Isa 23:18
Yet her profit and her earnings( real wealth )( will be set apart ) for the LORD; they will not be stored up or hoarded. Her profits will go to those who live before the LORD, for abundant food and fine clothes.
now just keep reading..

 

[Shimshon]

"The jubilee year was for releasing debt's and returning to ones property. And this makes utter sense then that the dates the yovel fall on will have extreme ramifications for Yisrael, both people and land.. And maybe the reason America is seemingly connected to the happenings of the shemitah is that we have been the place where most of Yisrael has wandered during the exile. No, maybe every place where God's people go they are affected by the shemitah, and so are the nations they have been scattered to? That seem's more likely. The reason world events happen on the shemitah is because God's children have been scattered into all the world? "

how this is true I can't explain now.. it is a kind of political mess. . but it truth. it was for the good.
Isa 23:17
At the end of seventy years, the LORD will deal with Tyre. She will return to her lucrative prostitution and will ply her trade with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth.( they sea/water traders )

Isa 23:18
Yet her profit and her earnings( real wealth )( will be set apart ) for the LORD; they will not be stored up or hoarded. Her profits will go to those who live before the LORD, for abundant food and fine clothes.
now just keep reading..

Isaiah 26:8 In the path of your judgments, O LORD, we wait for you; http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9your name and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-10remembrance are the desire of our soul. 9 My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Isaiah 26:8 In the path of your judgments, O LORD, we wait for you; http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9your name and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-10remembrance are the desire of our soul. 9 My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/isaiah/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

Yep...

 

[NannaNae]

Now the yovel will throw a real wrench in your plans though. As it not only deals with these things but the releasing of debts and property and workers to their own lands. Which this country has made completely impossilbe to accomplish. Federal lands, welfare poor and all.

well I am part blood native american and am maternally on all sides , so we are really pretty good in that department.. there !! well unless God only does other nations inheritances by male clans but even he made some provisions for maternal daughters of fathers with no sons... but most natives never did that by male lines here before as far as land goes ... woman owned the land and use of it.. men just hunted on it. and they owned the politics of the sociel structures ...but they did not control the land or like the material wealth . was all the ladies who owned it .. kind of like they did used that wealth to make more..

no matter what happens I think we will be just fine in the land department.
unless the government of men tries to out flank God on it .. and then does another Dawes/ land rush type thing ..... "as long as the rivers run and the sun shines" so they dam up the rivers and blow up the sun.. just to take what is not theirs , yes that kind of thing!

 

[rick357]

Then the yovel would be associated with the eighth day. And the three years could be from halfway through the sixth, the shemitah (7th), the yovel (8th), and half way through the ninth or first year. In this way we would be eathing the old in the ninth before the harvest has come.

BUT what about the sowing on the eighth day?

Lev 25:20 And if you say, 'What shall we eat in the seventh year, if we may not sow or gather in our crop?' 21 I will command my blessing on you in the sixth year, so that it will produce a crop sufficient for three years. 22When you sow in the eighth year, you will be eating some of the old crop; you shall eat the old until the ninth year, when its crop arrives.
The eighth seems to be in reference to the first. But then the mention of a ninth year, which again appears as a first. What keeps throwing me here is verse 22. It's supposed to be the yovel, how can there be sowing in it? The only way this works is for the eighth to be the first, not a seperate year. The same way as referred to the shabbat cycle. But as I see scripture state, the yovel is a seperate year, the 50th year. As further indicated by the mention of the ninth year.

If this line is correct then it would look as follows
Begining to 1 complete year new year day= 2nd living year
2 cy. 3 ly
3cy. 4ly
4cy. 5ly
5cy. 6ly
6cy. 7ly
7cy. 8ly sabbath
8cy sow 9ly harvest bgn-1ly
1cy. 2ly
2cy. 3ly


seventh cycle is 49cy 50ly

 

[Shimshon]

If this line is correct then it would look as follows
Begining to 1 complete year new year day= 2nd living year
2 cy. 3 ly
3cy. 4ly
4cy. 5ly
5cy. 6ly
6cy. 7ly
7cy. 8ly sabbath
8cy sow 9ly harvest bgn-1ly
1cy. 2ly
2cy. 3ly


seventh cycle is 49cy 50ly

I'm sorry rick, I believe I see the pattern to this but I I don't think it makes sense to me.

 

[Shimshon]

well I am part blood native american and am maternally on all sides , so we are really pretty good in that department.. there !! well unless God only does other nations inheritances by male clans but even he made some provisions for maternal daughters of fathers with no sons... but most natives never did that by male lines here before as far as land goes ... woman owned the land and use of it.. men just hunted on it. and they owned the politics of the sociel structures ...but they did not control the land or like the material wealth . was all the ladies who owned it .. kind of like they did used that wealth to make more..

no matter what happens I think we will be just fine in the land department.
unless the government of men tries to out flank God on it .. and then does another Dawes/ land rush type thing ..... "as long as the rivers run and the sun shines" so they dam up the rivers and blow up the sun.. just to take what is not theirs , yes that kind of thing!

LOL all nations hare his, the whole world is his. And all his blessings run through Messiah, who is the redeemer not only of the world, but more importantly the redeemer of Yisrael. If Yisrael did not exist Messiah would never have been born. Torah would not have spoke of him and the law would not have led to him. But God chose Yisrael to set apart as holy so that the nations would be blessed through what he did through us. Namely, bring Messiah into the world. Our savior is the savior of the world. But he can not save the world according to his promise if he is not 'Our' (Yisrael's) savior first and foremost.

I don't think the God of Yisrael is going to honor the land traditions of other nations. BUT I believe he will honor the land promise he mentioned to Abraham, that his descendants would be a numerous as the stars or sands of the sea, and that the land will belong to his physical seed. And all the rest of the nations will be Messiah's, who will rule over them. Not make them physical Yisrael, but rule over them with One law and one heart. All his children though faith as our mutual father Abraham.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Think of how we count years: Aviv to Aviv

1st year to Aviv 2nd year = 1
2nd year to Aviv 3rd year = 2
3rd year to Aviv 4th year = 3
4th year to Aviv 5th year = 4
5th year to Aviv 6th year = 5
6th year to Aviv 7th year = 6
7th year to Aviv 8th year = 7

(I won't repeat... just establishing the pattern)

8th year to 9th year = 1
9th year to 10th year = 2
10th year to 11th year = 3
11th year to 12th year = 4
12th year to 13th year = 5
13th year to 14th year = 6
14th year to 15th year = 7

15th year to 16th year = 1
16th year to 17th year = 2
17th year to 18th year = 3
18th year to 19th year = 4
19th year to 20th year = 5
20th year to 21st year = 6
21st year to 22nd year = 7

22nd year to 23rd year = 1
23rd year to 24th year = 2
24th year to 25th year = 3
25th year to 26th year = 4
26th year to 27th year = 5
27th year to 28th year = 6
28th year to 29th year = 7

29th year to 30th year = 1
30th year to 31st year = 2
31st year to 32nd year = 3
32nd year to 33rd year = 4
33rd year to 34th year = 5
34th year to 35th year = 6
35th year to 36th year = 7

36th year to 37th year = 1
37th year to 38th year = 2
38th year to 39th year = 3
39th year to 40th year = 4
40th year to 41st year = 5
41st year to 42nd year = 6
42nd year to 43rd year = 7

43rd year to 44th year = 1
44th year to 45th year = 2
45th year to 46th year = 3
46th year to 47th year = 4
47th year to 48th year = 5
48th year to 49th year = 6
49th year to 50th year = 7

Yovel from Aviv 50th year to Aviv 1st year = 8

1st year to 2nd year = 9 (Which would be the start of the next 7 seven-year cycles.)

 

[Shimshon]

Think of how we count years: Aviv to Aviv

Yovel from Aviv 50th year to Aviv 1st year = 8

1st year to 2nd year = 9 (Which would be the start of the next 7 seven-year cycles.)

Right! I can understand the 49yr cycle with a 50th year yovel.

BUT, nobody is addressing Lev 25:22 that states the 8th day allows sowing. Then the ninth comes which looks like a first.

22When you sow in the eighth year, you will be eating some of the old crop; you shall eat the old until the ninth year, when its crop arrives.

​

Maybe, the key here is in verse 20?

20 And if you say, 'What shall we eat in the seventh year, if we may not sow or gather in our crop?' 21 I will
​

Doesn't this imply a lack of faith? God said he would provide, why would anyone say 'what shall we eat!!??' So IF Yisrael says this THEN ..... still not getting how the eighth year is a yovel AND sowable.

 

[rick357]

I'm sorry rick, I believe I see the pattern to this but I I don't think it makes sense to me.

Not to go off topic but as we are speaking on time calculation...in regard to passover the day the original lamb was slain and blood spread was day before passover as the event of the angel happened during the night which was next day....so is the feast celebrated the day before or on actual day or do we know...just thinking about two events of differant days but same time....being called as the same

 

[Shimshon]

Not to go off topic but as we are speaking on time calculation...in regard to passover the day the original lamb was slain and blood spread was day before passover as the event of the angel happened during the night which was next day....so is the feast celebrated the day before or on actual day or do we know...just thinking about two events of differant days but same time....being called as the same

No problem I see this as a valid thought to the topic, as long as we don't get into the pesach debate of when it occurs in too much detail.

Some see it as a seperate day and some see it as an event tied to unleavned bread. So this too will not prove an easy solution.

I've always seen them as seperate. So that would lend a hand to an 8th day. As in the yovel. But I'm sure someone will come along and say pesach is part of hag hamatzah. I think the same nuance plays here. Pesach apears like an 'ought' (0) year to the feast of matzah. Good mention, rick.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Leviticus 25:11 A jubilee shall that fiftieth year be unto you: you shall not sow, neither reap that which grows of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of your vine undressed.

In the Yovel, what may not be sown (which I take to mean the gathering of seed for purposes of planting) or reaped (harvested) is what grows of itself, in the wild.

Leviticus 25:12 For it is the jubilee; it shall be holy unto you: you shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.

What is to be eaten during that year is that which has been previously stored up from the cultivated fields.

Leviticus 25:22 And you shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in you shall eat of the old store.

The sowing that may take place that year is of the cultivated fields.

 

[rick357]

Right! I can understand the 49yr cycle with a 50th year yovel.

BUT, nobody is addressing Lev 25:22 that states the 8th day allows sowing. Then the ninth comes which looks like a first.

22When you sow in the eighth year, you will be eating some of the old crop; you shall eat the old until the ninth year, when its crop arrives.

Maybe, the key here is in verse 20?

20 And if you say, 'What shall we eat in the seventh year, if we may not sow or gather in our crop?' 21 I will

Doesn't this imply a lack of faith? God said he would provide, why would anyone say 'what shall we eat!!??' So IF Yisrael says this THEN ..... still not getting how the eighth year is a yovel AND sowable.

Well Aviv is new year and within a few weeks is barly harvest so with out sowing in previous year there would be no harvest the following year.