Sabbatical Year

[visionary]

Why would you ask ?
Is he a rabbi, carrying on the ancient understanding of things?
Or do you really care about our opinions, which we invent here and now ?
I can give opinions on just about anything, but then what ?
How can I possibly hope to be accurate, if I'm just making things up and using "common sense" (as I personally, subjectively understand it) ?

How to count Jubilees is beyond basic. The Jews did it the right way for MILLENNIA, and haven't changed the way it is to be done. I just don't understand why one would even ask the question.

Why do you value the ad hoc speculation of people on this forum (like me), rather than the ancient traditions of the chosen people ?

In order to have a discussion, one must ascertain their position and how they got there to lead them into reconsidering their position.

 

[Hoshiyya]

In order to have a discussion, one must ascertain their position and how they got there to lead them into reconsidering their position.

Who are you trying to make reconsider their position?

Those who hold the ancient tradition, or modern speculators and and revisionists and "modern prophets" ?

 

[NannaNae]

Who are you trying to make reconsider their position?

Those who hold the ancient tradition, or modern speculators and and revisionists and "modern prophets" ?

wow that was aggressive..
maybe that is a point someone needs to talk about !
you see God did it to us.
Jesus / Yeshua promises Christians to write his laws on our hearts..
it wasn't
"religion" but the spirit of His laws who did that to us . we couldn't help it that Kraft shut down it's whole fleet nation wide so that my husband lost his job on what we have called
our" family Sabbath year " .. and no one has offered him a paying job yet..

why is it that mankind in any form of religion that man kind is involved in ... doesn't like the spirit of God's laws or him very much ?

 

[Hoshiyya]

wow that was aggressive..
maybe that is a point someone needs to talk about !
you see God did it to us.
Jesus / Yeshua promises Christians to write his laws on our hearts..
it wasn't
"religion" but the spirit of His laws who did that to us . we couldn't help it that Kraft shut down it's whole fleet nation wide so that my husband lost his job on what we have called
our" family Sabbath year " .. and no one has offered him a paying job yet..

why is it that mankind in any form of religion that man kind is involved in ... doesn't like the spirit of God's laws or him very much ?

Her post didn't make it clear who should reconsider their position.

Either the God's people have done it right for thousands of years, OR some modern (gentile?) revelator born in the 20th century is going to come along and obviate all of that ?
Which one is it gonna be ?
In case it is not clear, it is the latter position that is the TRULY ARROGANT (hence aggressive) position.

 

[Hoshiyya]

I can re-express or re-phrase it this way if you prefer:

Maybe it is not the Traditional Jews, but the individual Messianics, who should reconsider their positions ?
And I say positions plural, since they are divided on the issue.
When you don't have Torah She'ba'al Peh you have chaos, contention, disunity and disputations over the most basic things necessary for organization and fellowship, and hence the vast majority of Messianics have no experience with or knowledge of Messianic organization or fellowship.

When you've just dogmatically decided that the Rabbis have to be wrong, how can you ever be objective ?

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Or the last year of the old cycle. At any rate it is NOT a growth year. So if your Jubilee is year 1 of the new cycle you have this:

1 - Jubilee (no growth)
2 - growth
3 - growth
4 - growth
5 - growth
6 - growth
7 - sabbath year

there are only 5 growth years (2-6) and not 6 as required by Torah.

Where is it stated that the Jubilee is a non-sowing year?

 

[NannaNae]

Her post didn't make it clear who should reconsider their position.

Either the God's people have done it right for thousands of years
yes for their covenant....
sorry I am not of their covenant..
each nation has diffferent promises and different time tables and
you do what he tells you to do and let me do what he tells me to do..

stop trying to usurp his people with
"religion".
you know your religion
I hope you get the chance to learn from him someday.
He is great and
things of man isn't !
you know your religion and ands that must be needed too... I don't ! and I don't want to learn anything I don't need to learn and I let him tell me what that is .
sorry!

 

[visionary]

Who are you trying to make reconsider their position?

Those who hold the ancient tradition, or modern speculators and and revisionists and "modern prophets" ?

It doesn't matter, what matters is that people prayerfully reconsider. Yeshua dealt with the rigidity of the religious leaders and so must we today. May the Holy Spirit move upon our hearts on that which is the narrow path we are to follow and may we be willing to walk it.

 

[NannaNae]

I got a question for you two and all replacement theology christians.
pray about this and think about it .

from the aspects of futuristic / the prophetic happenings / of the New kingdom reign. why did only Judah and Levi remain in the north and took the name "jews" ... and the 10 lost and the land kept the name Israel? why just those two tribes ? and a remnant of Benjamin that was left also.. they are just a token of the promise.

tell me your thoughts..

 

[visionary]

Her post didn't make it clear who should reconsider their position.

Either the God's people have done it right for thousands of years, OR some modern (gentile?) revelator born in the 20th century is going to come along and obviate all of that ?
Which one is it gonna be ?
In case it is not clear, it is the latter position that is the TRULY ARROGANT (hence aggressive) position.

In all generation, there has been those in all spectrums. The humble by nature consider and reconsider as they walk with the Lord.

 

[Rachel Rachel]

Okay, when do the Rabbis say will be a Sabbath year?
And in order to have the 7th year provision, one needs to trust and obey.
How does that translate into today's world? Do we quit our jobs every 7 years?
I'm not trying to be facetious......I really don't understand how we'd do this in the modern Western world.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

from the aspects of futuristic / the prophetic happenings / of the New kingdom reign. why did only Judah and Levi remain in the north and took the name "jews" ... and the 10 lost and the land kept the name Israel? why just those two tribes ? and a remnant of Benjamin that was left also.. they are just a token of the promise.

tell me your thoughts..

Judah and Levi resided in the south. Israel included the combined tribes of the north and Levites, as well.

If the tribes of the north retained the honor and distinction of carrying the name of "Israel" over them... are they truly those who were "lost"? Assyria carried away roughly 28,000 people from the northern tribes. Not many when considering the number of the total population must have been much higher than that.

The Levites who were assigned to the tribe of Judah were not descendants of Eleazar.

Prophetically, I believe in looking to the great prophet Moshe and his song and blessings as to what will befall Israel in the end of days. Moshe states the tribes will cross into the Land after his death and will gather in the place YHWH has chosen and will read the entire Law in the hearing of all the people after seven years (which is the Sh'mitah) - in this place. We know that after seven years in the Land, this took place in the region of Shechem, not Jerusalem. This region is the same location of Jacob's dream where he declared, "Surely, this is the sanctuary of the L-RD". El-Elohe-Yisrael. This is the place the Shekinah dwelt and where the Tabernacle stood for hundreds of years after entering the Land with Israel. The earthly dwelling place corresponding to the spiritual dwelling place, which cannot be moved. This is in the territory of Joseph, who retains the rights of the firstborn, who wore the garment of authority over the house of Israel, which was torn and soaked in blood - for money - who was sold into slavery, while others usurped his authority over the whole house of Israel. I believe this is why Judah is held as a surety for Benjamin and why Benjamin was rewarded five times that of his brothers by Joseph... because Joseph was buying back his birthright, which was rightfully restored to him. Joseph's bones are buried in Shechem, Jacob's Well is in Shechem (mayim chaim). The shoulder stones on the garments of the High Priest correspond to Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal and are made out of the same stone material as Joseph's stone on the breastplate of the High Priest, which I believe shows reference to this physical location right on the High Priest's garments. 12 stones representing each tribe were carried up out of the Jordan River and covered in lime and written over with the Law. If you'd like to discuss anything further, contact me by PM or email.

 

[Shimshon]

Where is it stated that the Jubilee is a non-sowing year?

There was supposed to be enough given (by God) in the 6th year to last (3) years. The produce from the 6th year lasted for the yovel (7th) and also lasted into the 1st year so they could eat till the crops they planted in the 1st year started to produce.

The Yovel is a rest for the land, no sowing is allowed. See Leviticus 25:11

IF the yovel was not also the 1st year of the next cycle as well you would have to have provisions for (4) years (6th, 7th shemitah, Yovel, 1st till produce).


Leviticus 25:21 says the produce is for only 3 years.

21 I will command my blessing on you in the sixth year, so that it will produce a crop sufficient for three years. 22When you sow in the eighth year, you will be eating some of the old crop; you shall eat the old until the ninth year, when its crop arrives.

Now we know there is not (9) years just as we know the (8th) year is the start of the new cycle, as proven by being allowed to 'sow in the eighth year'. So the eighth year represents the first year of the new cycle. The blessing of produce on the sixth year would have lasted for three years. In a seven year cycle this means that the sixth year produce would last to feed them for that year, the seventh year, and the eighth/or first year of the next cycle. So they could have something to eat while they were waiting for that which was sown on the first/eighth day to produce.

Where I think the issue in this arises is the mention of the 'ninth' year. Which would be the second year. Which means that that which is sown is not harvested till the next year, which doesn't seem correct according to known agriculture. The sowing is done in the spring, and the harvest comes in the fall. Same year.

So my question to those who believe the yovel was not the shemitah but the year after is, how do you explain the sowing on the eighth year, which would be your yovel? Because if the sixth year they are provided a blessing to last them three years, being the sixth, shemitah, the yovel, and able to eat the old into the first year so that they have food till that which is sown is harvestable. This may sound plausible 'until' you see the text that states they are to sow on the eighth year. If the yovel was on the eighth year then it's a no-sow year. And does not work with the scripture.

With that said, I have to conclude that the yovel is the same year as the shemitah, not another (8th) year, because the text says sowing is done on the eighth year.

Now, you do realize the rabbi's have been arguing this for millenia no?

 

[visionary]

Josephus plainly says that the Sabbatical years were kept "every seventh years" in the exact same way the weekly Sabbath is kept "every seventh day."

And as the siege was drawn out into length by this means, that year on which the Jews used to rest came on; for the Jews observe this rest every seventh year, as they do every seventh day; (Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus, Book 13, Chapter 8, Section 1)

and

And as the siege was delayed by this means, the year of rest came on, upon which the Jews rest every seventh year as they do on every seventh day. (Wars of the Jews, Book 1, Chapter 2, Section 4)

Josephus is plainly telling us that the Sabbatical years were celebrated in unbroken sequence every seventh year, just as the seventh day Sabbath was observed in unbroken sequence every seventh day just as scripture states.

Deut 31:10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, When all Israel is come to appear before YHWH thy Elohim in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.

and

Deut 15:1 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.

Josephus gives several references to Sabbatical years. In some of those references, we have enough historical and chronological information to determine when exactly each of those years were.

But Judas, seeing the strength of the enemy, retired to Jerusalem, and prepared to endure a siege. As for Antiochus, he sent part of his army to Bethsura, to besiege it, and with the rest of his army he came against Jerusalem; but the inhabitants of Bethsura were terrified at his strength; and seeing that their provisions grew scarce, they delivered themselves up on the security of oaths that they should suffer no hard treatment from the king. . . . But then their provisions failed them; what fruits of the ground they had laid up were spent and the land being not ploughed that year, continued unsowed, because it was the seventh year, on which, by our laws, we are obliged to let it lay uncultivated. And withal, so many of the besieged ran away for want of necessaries, that but a few only were left in the temple. (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 12, Chapter 9, Section 5)

According to Josephus, 24 B.C. was a Sabbatical year, and 23 B.C. was a Jubilee year. This would mean that A.D. 27 was a Sabbatical year, and A.D. 28 was a Jubilee year. That only works if he is using a 49 year cycle. That would also mean that Jubilee is the 50th year and the first of the next seven years. If this is true, then 1977 was a Sabbatical year and 1978 a Jubilee year. Sabbatical years would occur in 1985, 1992, 1999, 2006, 2013, 2020 and 2027, with the next Jubilee in 2028.

 

[Dave-W]

Did all Jewish factions (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essanes, etc.) all celebrate together or was it like the counting the omer to 50 for Shavuot where they all did it differently?

 

[visionary]

Ezekiel saw his vision at the beginning of a Jubilee year is also shown by his statement that it was

Ezekiel 40:1 "...in the twenty-fifth year of our captivity, on Rosh Hashanah, on the tenth day of the month…".

It was only in a Jubilee year that Rosh Hashanah (New Year's Day) came on the tenth of Tishri (Leviticus 25:9), on Yom Kippur.

 

[Shimshon]

Ezekiel saw his vision at the beginning of a Jubilee year is also shown by his statement that it was It was only in a Jubilee year that Rosh Hashanah (New Year's Day) came on the tenth of Tishri (Leviticus 25:9), on Yom Kippur.

Although it is true according to Lev 25 that the trumpets were to be blown on yom kippur. In no way do I nor scores of other Jewish scholars agree that Ez 40 indicates that yom teruah was moved to yom kippur on yovel's.

This assumes the shifting or cancellation of yom teruah on yovel years no? When the text is silent on a matter do we infer what we desire, or rest on what was already instituted? There is no mention of yom teruah 'not' occuring when it usually does. There is only a mention to do something additional on yom kippur during a yovel year.

When I read Ez 40:1 I see it stating it was the beginning of the year on the tenth day of the month. Not that rosh hashanah had been moved to yom kippur on that year.

This is only eluded to in one 'newly' published translation (OJB), and has never been translated this way in the past, nor by any other translation.

 

[sevengreenbeans]

There was supposed to be enough given (by God) in the 6th year to last (3) years. The produce from the 6th year lasted for the yovel (7th) and also lasted into the 1st year so they could eat till the crops they planted in the 1st year started to produce.

The Yovel is a rest for the land, no sowing is allowed. See Leviticus 25:11

IF the yovel was not also the 1st year of the next cycle as well you would have to have provisions for (4) years (6th, 7th shemitah, Yovel, 1st till produce).


Leviticus 25:21 says the produce is for only 3 years.

Now we know there is not (9) years just as we know the (8th) year is the start of the new cycle, as proven by being allowed to 'sow in the eighth year'. So the eighth year represents the first year of the new cycle. The blessing of produce on the sixth year would have lasted for three years. In a seven year cycle this means that the sixth year produce would last to feed them for that year, the seventh year, and the eighth/or first year of the next cycle. So they could have something to eat while they were waiting for that which was sown on the first/eighth day to produce.

Where I think the issue in this arises is the mention of the 'ninth' year. Which would be the second year. Which means that that which is sown is not harvested till the next year, which doesn't seem correct according to known agriculture. The sowing is done in the spring, and the harvest comes in the fall. Same year.

So my question to those who believe the yovel was not the shemitah but the year after is, how do you explain the sowing on the eighth year, which would be your yovel? Because if the sixth year they are provided a blessing to last them three years, being the sixth, shemitah, the yovel, and able to eat the old into the first year so that they have food till that which is sown is harvestable. This may sound plausible 'until' you see the text that states they are to sow on the eighth year. If the yovel was on the eighth year then it's a no-sow year. And does not work with the scripture.

With that said, I have to conclude that the yovel is the same year as the shemitah, not another (8th) year, because the text says sowing is done on the eighth year.

Now, you do realize the rabbi's have been arguing this for millenia no?

Thank you for providing the references.

Perhaps the abundance of produce lasting for three years is the key.
Is it possible that the Yovel was a year unto itself? After re-reading the text, and not going off of memory of teachings I've received over the years, it seems plausible. Years 1-7, 8-14, 9-21, 22-28, 29-35, 36-42, 43-49, would be seven, seven-year cycles with the 50th year being a year set apart, perhaps. Then the cycles start again?

This takes us back to the key... the abundance of produce, which lasts 3 years.

It would mean that if all the sabbatical years are kept in the cycle, then the produce from the 48th year of the cycle would last through the sh'mitah of the 49th year, through the yovel of the 50th year, and still enough to eat through the 1st year while the sowing takes place.

 

[Shimshon]

According to Josephus, 24 B.C. was a Sabbatical year, and 23 B.C. was a Jubilee year.

I see nowhere that Josephus mentions the yovel. I only see mention of the shemitah. Where do you account that Josephus eluded to a 23 b.c. yovel?

 

[sevengreenbeans]

Although it is true according to Lev 25 that the trumpets were to be blown on yom kippur. In no way do I nor scores of other Jewish scholars agree that Ez 40 indicates that yom teruah was moved to yom kippur on yovel's.

This assumes the shifting or cancellation of yom teruah on yovel years no? When the text is silent on a matter do we infer what we desire, or rest on what was already instituted? There is no mention of yom teruah 'not' occuring when it usually does. There is only a mention to do something additional on yom kippur during a yovel year.

When I read Ez 40:1 I see it stating it was the beginning of the year on the tenth day of the month. Not that rosh hashanah had been moved to yom kippur on that year.

This is only eluded to in one 'newly' published translation (OJB), and has never been translated this way in the past, nor by any other translation.

Agreed. Appointed times are fixed.