Sabbath?

[Frogster]

I did.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

 

[Frogster]

I did.

Hebrews 8:8 NASB For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

Effect in the greek…sunteleo 4931
Definition:
1) to end together or at the same time
2) to end completely2a) bring to an end, finish, complete
3) to accomplish, bring to fulfilment
3a) to come to pass
4) to effect, make, (conclude)
5) to finish
5a) to make an end of
5b) to bring to an end
5c) destroy

 

[Frogster]

I did.

Hebrews 8:8 NASB For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

New,in the greek. kainos 2537

Definition:
1) new1a) as respects for
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

 

[Maggie893]

Mod Hat
Thread cleanup was done for a specific tangent that was reported. If your post has been removed it was because it either violated a rule, for which you will be notified separately, or it quoted/referenced a post that was removed.

Please keep this thread on topic. If you are unable to post without insulting, goading and using sarcasm to make your point, then I recommend you refrain from posting altogether.
Mod Hat​

 

[Frogster]

#388

Hebrews 10:8-9 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

 

[7steps]

Hebrews 8:8 NASB For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

New,in the greek. kainos 2537

Definition:
1) new1a) as respects for
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

58.71 καινόςb, ή, όν; νέοςb, α, ον: pertaining to that which is new or recent and hence superior to that which is old—‘new.’
καινόςb: καινοὺς δὲ οὐρανοὺς καὶ γῆν καινήν ‘new heavens and new earth’ 2 Pe 3:13.
νέοςb: καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι τὸν νέον τὸν ἀνακαινούμενον εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ‘and putting on the new self which is made new in knowledge’ Col 3:10.

58.72 ἀνακαίνωσις, εως f; ἀνακαινόωa; ἀνανεόω: to cause something to become new and different, with the implication of becoming superior—‘to make new, renewal.’
ἀνακαίνωσις: ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός ‘but be transformed by the renewal of the mind’ Ro 12:2.


Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (593). New York: United Bible societies.

 

[from scratch]

#388

Try again that is my post.

 

[7steps]

Try again that is my post.

that is because they are deleting our sarcastic post 371

 

[Frogster]

58.71 καινόςb, ή, όν; νέοςb, α, ον: pertaining to that which is new or recent and hence superior to that which is old—‘new.’
καινόςb: καινοὺς δὲ οὐρανοὺς καὶ γῆν καινήν ‘new heavens and new earth’ 2 Pe 3:13.
νέοςb: καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι τὸν νέον τὸν ἀνακαινούμενον εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ‘and putting on the new self which is made new in knowledge’ Col 3:10.

58.72 ἀνακαίνωσις, εως f; ἀνακαινόωa; ἀνανεόω: to cause something to become new and different, with the implication of becoming superior—‘to make new, renewal.’
ἀνακαίνωσις: ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός ‘but be transformed by the renewal of the mind’ Ro 12:2.


Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (593). New York: United Bible societies.

new means new. Besides, if it was the same laws, they would still be bound to all the laws. No?

 

[7steps]

new means new. Besides, if it was the same laws, they would still be bound to all the laws. No?

But Kainos can mean new or renewed.

 

[Frogster]

58.71 καινόςb, ή, όν; νέοςb, α, ον: pertaining to that which is new or recent and hence superior to that which is old—‘new.’
καινόςb: καινοὺς δὲ οὐρανοὺς καὶ γῆν καινήν ‘new heavens and new earth’ 2 Pe 3:13.
νέοςb: καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι τὸν νέον τὸν ἀνακαινούμενον εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ‘and putting on the new self which is made new in knowledge’ Col 3:10.

58.72 ἀνακαίνωσις, εως f; ἀνακαινόωa; ἀνανεόω: to cause something to become new and different, with the implication of becoming superior—‘to make new, renewal.’
ἀνακαίνωσις: ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός ‘but be transformed by the renewal of the mind’ Ro 12:2.


Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (593). New York: United Bible societies.

New,in the greek. kainos 2537

Definition:
1) new1a) as respects for
1b) as respects substance
1b1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

Confirmed here.


Deuteronomy 5:1And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 Not with our fathers did the LORD make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.

 

[Frogster]

But Kainos can mean new or renewed.

Then answer this simple question. If it is renewed, then it is the same laws. Then are you saying we are bound to the 613? After all, the law was one, "all the Lord says, we will do"?

See my point?

 

[7steps]

Then answer this simple question. If it is renewed, then it is the same laws. Then are you saying we are bound to the 613? After all, the law was one, "all the Lord says, we will do"?

See my point?

I did not say anything about 613. If that is what you think the law is and what Paul is addressing then you are right. But this thinking is a byproduct of Pauline Doctrine to think that the Law is Rabbinical or the Messianic version, and it is not. But because of Pauline and Marcionic doctrine the baby has been thrown out with the bath water. Pauline and Marcionic created the notion that their was an Old and a New Testament so the majority of christianity does not concern itself in learning what the Torah can teach exept that it was to enslave. I have mentioned this previously but you only want to prove me wrong because it sounds wrong to you making assumptions.

 

[RibI]

You must be off in lala land or something. This does not show how Frogster is misrepresenting or misquoting anything. I asked you a direct question. Should I not expect a direct answer relating to my question? Or should I understand you are an SDA who has no answer because they can not think for themselves?

None of the above.

 

[from scratch]

But Kainos can mean new or renewed.

Negatory! You are streaching it big time. Wouldn't be a fisherman would you?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What? Oh not agreeing with you. I love my liberty in Christ Jesus to much to take up the bondage of the law. And I choose to be obedient and throw it out. Gal 4:30 So sorry it sticks in your kraw.

No. Misrepresenting what I say. If you freedom involves not having to love your neighbour and love God by action then it is definitely not the freedom Jesus gives you. If this is not the freedom you speak of then it cannot be freedom to not keep the 10 commandments because then it would be the same thing.

Did you ask this in the post I responded to: After Jesus died to save me for my sins would I have other God's or make graven images? This prompted me to ask what god's do you think the we grace pushers are serving by worshipping on Sunday? Your church teaches that we worship satan calling him God.

My church does not teach that at all. If one or two persons says that, this is their own opinion. What is important is what the bible teaches. For in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God you hold to your own tradition.

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

Commandment of God or man? You decide.

 

[from scratch]

58.71 καινόςb, ή, όν; νέοςb, α, ον: pertaining to that which is new or recent and hence superior to that which is old—‘new.’
καινόςb: καινοὺς δὲ οὐρανοὺς καὶ γῆν καινήν ‘new heavens and new earth’ 2 Pe 3:13.

I understand how you can get renew here. That however is not what Peter states. He states there will be a new, not a renovation thereof. Unbelief shows through here. Even scientist promote the idea that our current sun will expand and consume the earth.

νέοςb: καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι τὸν νέον τὸν ἀνακαινούμενον εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ‘and putting on the new self which is made new in knowledge’ Col 3:10.

The word new here is neos in the original. It means recently born, young, youthful. The word man is a supplied word used for clarification. The new man here is clearly a refurburished new man, not a completely new flesh and blood man. What is made new or renewed. The soul that was born dead. So is it a completely new or a renewed man?

58.72 ἀνακαίνωσις, εως f; ἀνακαινόωa; ἀνανεόω: to cause something to become new and different, with the implication of becoming superior—‘to make new, renewal.’
ἀνακαίνωσις: ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοός ‘but be transformed by the renewal of the mind’ Ro 12:2.

the word used here is not kainos but anakainōsis. Just a tad different.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (593). New York: United Bible societies.

 

[from scratch]

No. Misrepresenting what I say. If you freedom involves not having to love your neighbour and love God by action then it is definitely not the freedom Jesus gives you. If this is not the freedom you speak of then it cannot be freedom to not keep the 10 commandments because then it would be the same thing.

Red herring! Quote me anywhere I so indicated we are not to love our neighbor. I do not spew out hate or promote such. I am getting rather tired of such false accusations. I invite you to read Gal 5:16-24.

My church does not teach that at all. If one or two persons says that, this is their own opinion. What is important is what the bible teaches. For in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God you hold to your own tradition.

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her! —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath. —Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 211.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power. –Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. –Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

Commandment of God or man? You decide.

So are any of these catechisms teachings of your church? I don't think so. And while we are at it why would you cite teachings of the anti-christ your church calls satan? As much as you would like to hide this information, your speech betrays you as it did Peter, even like an Arab to a Jew.

 

[from scratch]

None of the above.

So you are not going to answer my direct question.

 

[7steps]

I understand how you can get renew here. That however is not what Peter states. He states there will be a new, not a renovation thereof. Unbelief shows through here. Even scientist promote the idea that our current sun will expand and consume the earth.
νέοςb: καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι τὸν νέον τὸν ἀνακαινούμενον εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ‘and putting on the new self which is made new in knowledge’ Col 3:10.The word new here is neos in the original. It means recently born, young, youthful. The word man is a supplied word used for clarification. The new man here is clearly a refurburished new man, not a completely new fleshand blood man. What is made new or renewed. The soul that was born dead. So is it a completely new or a renewed man? the word used here is not kainos but anakainōsis. Just a tad different.

Some persons see in the use of καινός in contrast with νέος a distinction based upon that which is novel and different in contrast with that which is young and recent. Though this distinction may be applicable to certain contexts and is more in accordance with classical usage, it is not possible to find in all occurrences of καινός and νέος this type of distinction.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible societies.

But it does not matter what reputable source I quote your mind is made up to what the meaning is because you think it proves your point.