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It is part of the law to write the ten commandments on your door post, is it not? I did not say it was part of the ten commandments.Who said I was making excuses. I don't understand what you mean.
Again identify some other covenant made with their fathers. Heb 8:8-13. Since you can not what else could Hebrews be talking about?
that has to do with Jeremiah 31:31-34. The word is new (chadash pronounced khä·däsh') and means new as in not before. There is another word chadash pronounced khä·dash' that means renew. If you compare the mirror quote in Hebrews it is easier to see. The coresponding words are kainos and neos which are impossible to confuse. Don't forget that Hebrews was written by a Jew.
The next verse (32) says not like the covenant made with their fathers. This covenant is identified in Deut 4:13 as the ten commandments. Do you know of another covenant? What is it about not like that you do not understand?
Who terminated the law? Must have been Jesus. He said 'This is My blood of the new covenant...' Mat 26:28 What new covenant was Jesus talking about, if it wasn't the one Jeremiah prophecied would come? Nope! However the Gentiles are part of the new covenant. Read Acts and especially chapter 15.
There is no Jew or Gentile in Christs Jesus- Gal 3:28. The idea that national Israel has been replaced by a spiritual Israel is a false teaching having no foundation in scripture. Those who promote such are twisting scripture for no other reason than to make merchandise of weak unlearned people.Where does the law promise eternal life? Nowhere! The law only condemns. See Romans 7:15-25. I already stated Who changed the law. God said He will terminate the Sabbath Hosea 2 in the Tanach, Stone ed. The word cease is used in the KJV. This would be in agreement with Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Do you really think there was just one covenant?
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
If keeping God's commandments is so unrealistic then why did God give it in the first place?
Originally Posted by RibI
That's absolutely false. Maybe small type would serve you better.
The Law was not nailed to the cross. The chargers against you are.
Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with Gods Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that the handwriting of requirements that was against us was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not Gods Law. Read Friberg Lexicon and also Vines Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words for a further explanation.
The New Living Translation makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.
Reject the truth if you will, but you won't ever be able to say you wern't told.
We are shaking in our boots in fear. So sorry that you don't accept the new covenant.Originally Posted by RibI
That's absolutely false. Maybe small type would serve you better.Reject the truth if you will, but you won't ever be able to say you wern't told.
The Law was not nailed to the cross. The chargers against you are.
Col. 2:14 is one verse people love to use to try to say that Paul did away with Gods Law. We need to understand what this verse is really talking about.
The Romans nailed two things to the cross 1) They nailed Jesus to the cross. 2) They nailed a sign stating that He was the king of the Jews to the cross. (i.e. the charge against Him) But Paul says, (figuratively) that the handwriting of requirements that was against us was also nailed to the cross.
This is the only place in the NT that these Greek words (handwriting of requirements) are used. This is a legal document, hand written by the criminal, stating the charges against him, (in our case the charge is that we have sinned; Ro. 3:23) and the debt that he owes. (our debt or penalty is death; Ro. 6:23.) This is what was nailed to the cross, not Gods Law. Read Friberg Lexicon and also Vines Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words for a further explanation.
The New Living Translation makes it much clearer. Cor. 2:14He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to the cross.
yes I know that there is more than one covenant. But the one that was not made with their fathers is the one issued at Sinai.Do you really think there was just one covenant?
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
yes I know that there is more than one covenant. But the one that was not made with their fathers is the one issued at Sinai.
Question.. Does that covenant has anything to do with animal sacrifices and the like which hebrews speaks about at length.
Also, what law does love fulfill?
So since I have no idea what the law is why won't you explain it to me? You sure would help a lot of folks out. The SDA folks would be most greatful for you to set me straight. Twisting what scripture? I don't thinkl you can explain Jer 31:31-34 any better than I have done. If so I want to see it. I would like you to explain the specific words and phrases that are important. I await your great knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong. So far you offer only opinion and some other site to do your arguing for you. If you want to debate the info on the other site bring it up a little at a time.It is clear you have no idea what the law is or is not. But I really have no time or desire to go over every detail of how you are twisting that scripture. But here is a resource that has written extensively on the subject (Yadayahweh.com). So to get back to the subject before I was dragged down this rabbit hole with no end as evidenced by the hundreds of threads with the same anti torah tone.
I am not interested in Rabbonic writings or the Talmud. One of the the reasons for the law is Romans 11:32. But just for you I like this reason given to Israel for the law:But more important than just doing something because it is a commandment is to understand the meaning of why. The spirit behind it. Something unfortunately allot of the Israelites did not understand either. As someone I know put it "The Jews, in trying to rigidly adhere to the Law, had developed a heart (not to mention a head) of stone by following the letter of the law to the exclusion of its spirit--a spirit of love, mercy, and gratitude. Understand, of course, that nobody actually kept the Instructions of Yahweh. What the Jews did was to try to observe a mere caricature of what Yahweh had actually said to do: He said, for example, "Dont do your regular work on the Sabbath." They said things like, "If you walk farther than 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath youve broken the Law." Their law, maybe. Not Yahwehs. "
Well present it. I would like a Jews idea about the Sabbath. I assume that you are speaking for Jews as Gentiles were never given such a law. This is a Christian site last time I checked. Christians are not Jews, adopted Jews or spiritual Jews. There is not Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus, Who testified that we are in the new covenant currently by His own word in Mat 26:28. If you know of another new covenant please give a reference. I truly wish to know.The Sabbath is one of the most important days by virtue of the fact that YHWH wanted us to practice it every week. It is refreshing that you did not take the road that it is passe as if God just created these things to toy with people and see if they can follow directions. Instead of should we do it or not do it like most of the comments here maybe people should be asking why? Some of the questions that you should ask maybe are. What did it stand for? Why could you not do your customary work or the work of the heavenly messengers? Why was it the 7th day? Why could you not kindle a fire? What does it mean that God rested? Why did he rest? What is the 7th day?
To your first question yes.Question.. Does that covenant has anything to do with animal sacrifices and the like which hebrews speaks about at length.
Also, what law does love fulfill?
God is not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.quote]
A great deal of Christian thinking is that in Christ all the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ and more. God now has one people, his adopted family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Not all accept this view, but it has the most consistent scriptural basis that I have encountered in coming to a conclusion on this issue.
John
NZ
To your first question yes.
To your second question All the law. This does not mean an obligation to the law by Christians as you imply by your rhetorical question/statement.
God is not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.quote]
A great deal of Christian thinking is that in Christ all the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ and more. God now has one people, his adopted family that includes both Jews and Gentiles. Not all accept this view, but it has the most consistent scriptural basis that I have encountered in coming to a conclusion on this issue.
John
NZ
Agreed
So since I have no idea what the law is why won't you explain it to me? You sure would help a lot of folks out. The SDA folks would be most greatful for you to set me straight. Twisting what scripture? I don't thinkl you can explain Jer 31:31-34 any better than I have done. If so I want to see it. I would like you to explain the specific words and phrases that are important. I await your great knowledge. Perhaps I am wrong. So far you offer only opinion and some other site to do your arguing for you. If you want to debate the info on the other site bring it up a little at a time. I am not interested in Rabbonic writings or the Talmud. One of the the reasons for the law is Romans 11:32. But just for you I like this reason given to Israel for the law:
Godis not finished with Israel yet as Paul testified in Romans 11:1-5.Well present it. I would like a Jews idea about the Sabbath. I assume that you are speaking for Jews as Gentiles were never given such a law. This is a Christian site last time I checked. Christians are not Jews, adopted Jews or spiritual Jews. There is not Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus, Who testified that we are in the new covenant currently by His own word in Mat 26:28. If you know of another new covenant please give a reference. I truly wish to know.
- Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Ex 19:5
- For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deut 14:2
- And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; Deut 26:18 and
- For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. Psa 135:4
I also have this from the Tanach, Stone ed 'I will terminate her ever rejoicing, her festival, her New Moon, Her Sabbath and her ever appointed season.' Hosea 2:13 coresponding to 2:11 KJV. And this from the Tanakh, NJPS And I will end all hers rejoicingher festivals, new moons, and sabbaths - all her festive seasons.
I knew that was exactly where you were headed as I indicated. So show your scriptural proof that the Christian is obligated to the law which they are told to throw out (Gal 4:30) and are delivered from (Rom 7:6).Then why is your focus one sided.
So you are saying we are not obligated to keep it, but we fulfill it out of love right?
Well yes what would you expect? Of course I am one sided. One can not serve conflicting laws. Gal 5:1-4. You probably won't look it up so here it is:Then why is your focus one sided.
Luke 18:26 (New International Version)Well yes what would you expect? Of course I am one sided. One can not serve conflicting laws. Gal 5:1-4. You probably won't look it up so here it is:
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Verse 4 clearly says if you follow the law you have no salvation.
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