Sabbath?

[Frogster]

Amen.. the emnity has been removed... What Peter understood to be a law of separation [which you can not find in Torah] was corrected by the vision.

It is in the Torah, the cleanliness laws separated the jew fom the gentile.

it says the ordinances and commands abolished, clear as day in eph 2;15.

 

[from scratch]

Notice it says... "her" and the Lord does not identify Himself with them.. they are not His.. they are a counterfeit.. even in those days.. people need to be given the gift of discernment.

Which sabbaths was Israel observing? The ones given to her or some other ones she made up? God gave her (Israel) all her (Israel's) feast days, new moons and sabbaths. In that sense those days in Hosea 2:11 are the one spoken of in Leviticus. Should you have some proof other than a statement of opinion I will consider it. So show me your proof.

 

[from scratch]

I love being the one to tell you that Hosea 2 is talking to an apostate nation, doing her own thing, keeping her own days, months, ect.
This is not telling them to stop keeping God's Sabbaths and Feasts.
How can you miss that? It's mind boggeling.

Which one of the prophets did not talk to an apostate nation? You are saying that no one in Israel observed the feasts, new moons or the Sabbath that God gave regulations and requirements for in Leviticus. Hogwash! God told Elijah that He had 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal. Romans 11:4

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Subjugation. What law did all have to live under, what one law?

technically, foreigners had the rights of full citizens in court according to the law . which makes it superior to the constitution of the United States .

even if the law is no longer in effect . this kind of example shows the redemptive kind of God we serve .

 

[Frogster]

technically, foreigners had the rights of full citizens in court according to the law . which makes it superior to the constitution of the United States .

even if the law is no longer in effect . this kind of example shows the redemptive kind of God we serve .

They had to be cut to partake of the feast, that was the one law they all would be under, and that led to following all the other laws, the courts or whatever. To get married, they had to convert also.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

They had to be cut to partake of the feast, that was the one law they all would be under, and that led to following all the other laws, the courts or whatever. To get married, they had to convert also.

I meant when it came to punishment . the law was equal .

if you wanted to become a member of the nation .

there was a way

in some countries back then

there was no such way .

it was still redemptive compared to the world it was written for .

 

[Bananna]

I counter with Luke 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Did you not read the whole passage? What did Yeshua say... in completeness.

"Think not that I have have come to abolish the Law and the prophets"

One either believes Yeshua's claim and puts everything else under that perspective or they do not.

When Yeshua accomplished his task on the cross it was not to be his last act. It was one complete act. One of the many spoken of in the Law and the Prophets...

Yeshua tells us that those who teach others to drop one single commandment are to be least in the Kingdom of God.

The problem with some who use terms like precept upon precept is that they forgot to read and apply the foundation of Torah to begin with.

The New Covenant was given to the Hebrews at Sinai. It is the concept of Torah being written on the heart instead of on tablets of stone. If all God's laws are on your heart, how can you help but keep them...
bananna

 

[Frogster]

Did you not read the whole passage? What did Yeshua say... in completeness.

"Think not that I have have come to abolish the Law and the prophets"

One either believes Yeshua's claim and puts everything else under that perspective or they do not.

When Yeshua accomplished his task on the cross it was not to be his last act. It was one complete act. One of the many spoken of in the Law and the Prophets...

Yeshua tells us that those who teach others to drop one single commandment are to be least in the Kingdom of God.

The problem with some who use terms like precept upon precept is that they forgot to read and apply the foundation of Torah to begin with.

The New Covenant was given to the Hebrews at Sinai. It is the concept of Torah being written on the heart instead of on tablets of stone. If all God's laws are on your heart, how can you help but keep them...
bananna

The law and the prophets meant the whole of the OT, good, we do not want the psalms gone, just get rid of the law that was a ministry of death and condemnation, as per 2 cor 3.

 

[nathanlandon1]

I do not know if this is the best place to ask about the Sabbath here but the better places to ask about it is in the Denomination-Specific forum, General Theology or the traditional Adventist forum.

But let me try to give an answer in short. Jesus didn't come to free us from keeping the commandments, he came to save us from the penalty of sin. As this grace is not made available, it is not an excuse to sin.In fact God forbids that we sin because of his abounding grace. My advice to you would be to obey as much as you can the commandments of God because that is what Jesus did when he was on earth. He loved God and kept his commandments and if you love God you should keep his commandments too.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I found this post and I PROPHECYKID is 100% accurate. I will give my $0.02, then I will present some evidence in support of the sabbath, and the requirement of its participation.



The problem many of us (Christians) have is that we tend to not differentiate between what has authority first: God's word, or man's. The answer is God's word: if one disobeys a man like Paul or Matthew especially in order to obey his/her Father in Heaven, then s/he should be perfectly comfortable with that. Yet, God Himself, with His Word, commands His children to do these things forever, even Yahoshuah.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

Technically (I believe) when we were perfect we had the full law inside of us, and we executed it perfectly. God didn't need to tell us anything because we were already perfect. With the fall of man, God had to remind and teach us what to and what not to do. This is why the commandments were given AFTER Egypt because everything God commanded against the Egyptians did in mass.

Now, considering Yahoshuah the Christ is the Wisdom/Word of God, and we know He was with God from the beginning (John 1:1,) and that Christ can resurrect (i.e. will not die,) then we must accept that we must obey every commandment given by God. The only person with the authority to change the law is God.

Some may bring up Paul and his notes on the food laws, or perhaps the justice laws, or even sacrifices as a counter argument to "following all of the law." Here is the deal: either Paul is trying to say something else when he says all food is good with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:4), or he is going against a direct commandment from God. God never changed health laws and He really didn't change the justice Laws, which were given because of the atrocities going on in Egypt (spiritually and physically.) The purpose of the "put to death" laws were to send the creatures to the Father immediately, instead of their sin evolving into another Egypt. Now that Yahoshuah has sacrificed Himself, (and also because Israel is scattared,) these "put to death" laws are executed by Him. These laws were laws that God gave Israel as a nation and as a people, and He would be our King. And, sacrifices were never mandatory, but it is something you should do innately for a King - or someone you love. You should give something important to you to someone you love - whether it be a bull or time. It shows appreciation.

"And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying, 'Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, [even] of the herd, and of the flock...'" Leviticus 1:1-2

If you don't have cattle He lists in the second chapter the options you have for offerings. Flour and oil are a couple of options.


To sum, if God said it and He has not changed it in any way, then we are to this day and forever supposed to follow His commands. Even if it is impossible to follow all of His commands right now, we know that Yahoshuah received His crown by following every single commandment set by God, innocently paying for our sins He didn't commit by death, and consequently (because of His blamelessness) resurrected back to life. Therefore, we must do it too if we want to even be considered to receive a crown of life. When we fail to obey a commandment we have to acknowledge that and strive to obey it, knowing Christ will strengthen us. Following the sabbath is an ancient spiritual law (the 4th commandment) that connects man with God. It is meant for us: a reminder that as images of God we are entitled to one day of rest just like our Father.





God said in Exodus

"And God spake all these words, saying

(1)I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (2)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (3)Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

(4)Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:1-11

The importance of this 4th commandment is much more than most people may realize. Egypt in exodus times was similar to a modern country today. There was debauchery, slaves (people with debt) were abused and beaten, and no one worshiped the one True God - they focused on the many false ones that they idolized. But here is the kicker: before the Law was officially given, the sabbath was already practiced. In fact, on the fifteenth day of the second month (Exodus 16:1) when Moses and his lot were wandering, God rained manna down for them to eat. Moses then told them

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:23-28

When Yahoshuah and his disciples were getting food to survive their journey on the sabbath, the pharisees tempted Him with a law question concerning the sabbath.

"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 2:23-29

This illustrates the importance of the sabbath. It is not a day of bondage where you are so bogged down on "traditional laws of men" that you can't even get something to eat! The sabbath is a holy day of reflection and connection with the Father. It is a day of rest.

This also illustrates that Yahoshuah, and even the people of that time, did not expect the Sabbath to be done away with or changed. If Yahoshuah wanted people to change or discontinue the sabbath He would have told us. The seventh day of the week has been and always will be the sabbath. If you are gentile but want to be a Christian (which is an Hebrew that follows and believes Christ,) you must also follow the law AND believe on Christ. This is because Christ Himself followed the whole law and executed it perfectly. If you believe in Him and what He stands for, you have to walk the same line as Him. Perfect execution of this law by us is impossible right now, but it is still expected and demanded from our Father. The only thing that keeps us from death is what Yahoshuah did for us. Follow the sabbath (Friday night at sundown to Saturday night at sundown): it really helps. Also, follow His other 7 High Sabbaths:

Passover
Feast of Unleavened Bread
Feast of First Fruits

Feast of Pentacost

Feast of Trumpets
The Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles

Each one of these days represents something specifically concerning Christ. For example, Passover is on the first full moon of the Hebrew calendar, and represents the last supper and death of Christ. Feast of Tabernacles is the future "Wedding Day" of the Church and Christ.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hi Nathanlandon, thanks for jumping in . here's what comes to mind from what you have written .

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

Since Paul said after Christ's crucifixion and resurrection that the ordinances were nailed to the cross . especially all the feasts and the sabbath . (colossians 2) when Jesus said "it is finished" he must have meant the Old covenant . as the writer to the Hebrews said many times .

You must take the bible in context . since Jesus is our standard . you must begin from Him . not Moses .

 

[from scratch]

Did you not read the whole passage? What did Yeshua say... in completeness.

"Think not that I have have come to abolish the Law and the prophets"

One either believes Yeshua's claim and puts everything else under that perspective or they do not.

I did read the whole passagae and have been here many times this year. Do you need a list? What you don'tlike Luke 24:44 which Jesus said these thing were conerning Me? He directly has Mat 5:17 in mind when so speaking.

When Yeshua accomplished his task on the cross it was not to be his last act. It was one complete act. One of the many spoken of in the Law and the Prophets...

Then did Jesus (God) lie when He said It is finished?

Yeshua tells us that those who teach others to drop one single commandment are to be least in the Kingdom of God.

Yes and that is while the law (Torah) had jurisdiction. After the cross we have a diffferent covenant testified by Jesus to be in effect and demontrated very well in Acts.

The problem with some who use terms like precept upon precept is that they forgot to read and apply the foundation of Torah to begin with.

If one examines even the Torah they will see the precept upon precept concept.

The New Covenant was given to the Hebrews at Sinai. It is the concept of Torah being written on the heart instead of on tablets of stone. If all God's laws are on your heart, how can you help but keep them...
bananna

Jer 31:31, 32 do not imply movement making the law new. That would be renewed which is not what Jeremiah says. Jeremiah says new as in chadash pronounced khä·däsh'. There is another word chadash pronounced khä·dash' which means renew. If you look at the mirror quote in Hebrews 8 you will see the word kainos is used for new. the coresponding word for renew is neos. There can be no easy mistake. I say this often enought that I am going to make a c & p in my word processor.

If it was just movement I think Jeremiah would have indicated renew because that is whot it would have been. However Jeremiah indicated a fresh new different thing not resembling the covenant made with their fathers. Romans and Galatians would be great for you to read and study.
You should read each out loud several times. We are delivered from the law Rom 7:6, not to mention we are not under the law in 6:14, 15 two verses in a row. Or Galatians 4:30 where we are instructed to throw out the law.

 

[from scratch]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I found this post and I PROPHECYKID is 100% accurate. I will give my $0.02, then I will present some evidence in support of the sabbath, and the requirement of its participation.



The problem many of us (Christians) have is that we tend to not differentiate between what has authority first: God's word, or man's. The answer is God's word: if one disobeys a man like Paul or Matthew especially in order to obey his/her Father in Heaven, then s/he should be perfectly comfortable with that. Yet, God Himself, with His Word, commands His children to do these things forever, even Yahoshuah.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

Technically (I believe) when we were perfect we had the full law inside of us, and we executed it perfectly. God didn't need to tell us anything because we were already perfect. With the fall of man, God had to remind and teach us what to and what not to do. This is why the commandments were given AFTER Egypt because everything God commanded against the Egyptians did in mass.

Now, considering Yahoshuah the Christ is the Wisdom/Word of God, and we know He was with God from the beginning (John 1:1,) and that Christ can resurrect (i.e. will not die,) then we must accept that we must obey every commandment given by God. The only person with the authority to change the law is God.

Some may bring up Paul and his notes on the food laws, or perhaps the justice laws, or even sacrifices as a counter argument to "following all of the law." Here is the deal: either Paul is trying to say something else when he says all food is good with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:4), or he is going against a direct commandment from God. God never changed health laws and He really didn't change the justice Laws, which were given because of the atrocities going on in Egypt (spiritually and physically.) The purpose of the "put to death" laws were to send the creatures to the Father immediately, instead of their sin evolving into another Egypt. Now that Yahoshuah has sacrificed Himself, (and also because Israel is scattared,) these "put to death" laws are executed by Him. These laws were laws that God gave Israel as a nation and as a people, and He would be our King. And, sacrifices were never mandatory, but it is something you should do innately for a King - or someone you love. You should give something important to you to someone you love - whether it be a bull or time. It shows appreciation.

"And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying, 'Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, [even] of the herd, and of the flock...'" Leviticus 1:1-2

If you don't have cattle He lists in the second chapter the options you have for offerings. Flour and oil are a couple of options.


To sum, if God said it and He has not changed it in any way, then we are to this day and forever supposed to follow His commands. Even if it is impossible to follow all of His commands right now, we know that Yahoshuah received His crown by following every single commandment set by God, innocently paying for our sins He didn't commit by death, and consequently (because of His blamelessness) resurrected back to life. Therefore, we must do it too if we want to even be considered to receive a crown of life. When we fail to obey a commandment we have to acknowledge that and strive to obey it, knowing Christ will strengthen us. Following the sabbath is an ancient spiritual law (the 4th commandment) that connects man with God. It is meant for us: a reminder that as images of God we are entitled to one day of rest just like our Father.





God said in Exodus

"And God spake all these words, saying

(1)I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (2)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (3)Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

(4)Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:1-11

The importance of this 4th commandment is much more than most people may realize. Egypt in exodus times was similar to a modern country today. There was debauchery, slaves (people with debt) were abused and beaten, and no one worshiped the one True God - they focused on the many false ones that they idolized. But here is the kicker: before the Law was officially given, the sabbath was already practiced. In fact, on the fifteenth day of the second month (Exodus 16:1) when Moses and his lot were wandering, God rained manna down for them to eat. Moses then told them

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:23-28

When Yahoshuah and his disciples were getting food to survive their journey on the sabbath, the pharisees tempted Him with a law question concerning the sabbath.

"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 2:23-29

This illustrates the importance of the sabbath. It is not a day of bondage where you are so bogged down on "traditional laws of men" that you can't even get something to eat! The sabbath is a holy day of reflection and connection with the Father. It is a day of rest.

This also illustrates that Yahoshuah, and even the people of that time, did not expect the Sabbath to be done away with or changed. If Yahoshuah wanted people to change or discontinue the sabbath He would have told us. The seventh day of the week has been and always will be the sabbath. If you are gentile but want to be a Christian (which is an Hebrew that follows and believes Christ,) you must also follow the law AND believe on Christ. This is because Christ Himself followed the whole law and executed it perfectly. If you believe in Him and what He stands for, you have to walk the same line as Him. Perfect execution of this law by us is impossible right now, but it is still expected and demanded from our Father. The only thing that keeps us from death is what Yahoshuah did for us. Follow the sabbath (Friday night at sundown to Saturday night at sundown): it really helps. Also, follow His other 7 High Sabbaths:

Passover
Feast of Unleavened Bread
Feast of First Fruits

Feast of Pentacost

Feast of Trumpets
The Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles

Each one of these days represents something specifically concerning Christ. For example, Passover is on the first full moon of the Hebrew calendar, and represents the last supper and death of Christ. Feast of Tabernacles is the future "Wedding Day" of the Church and Christ.

I will have to come back to your post later. It will take more time than I have at the moment.

 

[7steps]

Nicely put Nathan but they will continue to argue and take scripture out of context and continue to ignore the fact that without the Torah, phrophet and psalms Yahshua's sacrifice would have been just another guy dying a gruesome death. Like when they quoted the end John 19:30 to take it out of context when if you go to the whole of 19 the point was that he was fulfilling the prophesy to the last detail given in the torah, prophets and psalms. So he finished his current assignment to the letter of the Torah, prophets and psalms. For example I got form a good source and verified that in Matt 26:28 non of the oldest manuscripts have Yahshua stating New Covenant he just stated this is MY blood of the covenant. They are totally anti torah and they will not see it any other way. It is not the first post on this Law vs grace and I know it won't be the last. Until it is actually written on our hearts there will always be opinions. And Jer 31:31-34 does state a renewed Firstly, the only difference between his khä·däsh' and khä·dash' is the masoretic vowel pointing, which means absolutely nothing (He’s referring to Strong’s #H2318 and #H2319 for reference sakes) for they both look exactly the same in Paleo-Hebrew, although one is a verb (#H2318) and the other an adjective (#H2319). It should be noted that both these words are used in reference to the “New moon”. Is there a completely different moon every month? No, there isn’t. It just means it’s come around again, even though it’s still the same moon. and the Corresponding Kainos does not mean just new never existing before it can also be comparative meaning new superior than before and when taken in context with Jer 31:31-34 it is superior covenant for it to be written on our hearts. But Nathan I chose not to argue with them because it is futile. They will also continue to throw Paul around as if his authority is greater and that you have not bother to read it because if you had you would think like them. When Paul's writings can be taken out of context very easily and Paul does give his opinion allot.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Nicely put Nathan but they will continue to argue and take scripture out of context and continue to ignore the fact that without the Torah, phrophet and psalms Yahshua's sacrifice would have been just another guy dying a gruesome death. Like when they quoted the end John 19:30 to take it out of context when if you go to the whole of 19 the point was that he was fulfilling the prophesy to the last detail given in the torah, prophets and psalms. So he finished his current assignment to the letter of the Torah, prophets and psalms. For example I got form a good source and verified that in Matt 26:28 non of the oldest manuscripts have Yahshua stating New Covenant he just stated this is MY blood of the covenant. They are totally anti torah and they will not see it any other way. It is not the first post on this Law vs grace and I know it won't be the last. Until it is actually written on our hearts there will always be opinions.

You need to begin with Yeshua as your premise . as when He was nailed to the cross . He replaced the law .

our reference point is now three dimensional . no longer a two dimensional shadow .

 

[Frogster]

Nicely put Nathan but they will continue to argue and take scripture out of context and continue to ignore the fact that without the Torah, phrophet and psalms Yahshua's sacrifice would have been just another guy dying a gruesome death. Like when they quoted the end John 19:30 to take it out of context when if you go to the whole of 19 the point was that he was fulfilling the prophesy to the last detail given in the torah, prophets and psalms. So he finished his current assignment to the letter of the Torah, prophets and psalms. For example I got form a good source and verified that in Matt 26:28 non of the oldest manuscripts have Yahshua stating New Covenant he just stated this is MY blood of the covenant. They are totally anti torah and they will not see it any other way. It is not the first post on this Law vs grace and I know it won't be the last. Until it is actually written on our hearts there will always be opinions. And Jer 31:31-34 does state a renewed Firstly, the only difference between his khä·däsh' and khä·dash' is the masoretic vowel pointing, which means absolutely nothing (He’s referring to Strong’s #H2318 and #H2319 for reference sakes) for they both look exactly the same in Paleo-Hebrew, although one is a verb (#H2318) and the other an adjective (#H2319). It should be noted that both these words are used in reference to the “New moon”. Is there a completely different moon every month? No, there isn’t. It just means it’s come around again, even though it’s still the same moon. and the Corresponding Kainos does not mean just new never existing before it can also be comparative meaning new superior than before and when taken in context with Jer 31:31-34 it is superior covenant for it to be written on our hearts.

Sorry, but if the promise came by law, it would exclude gentiles, and the Spirit. I understand messianics think differently, they are israel centered, and want gentiles to lives as jews, but scripture stands in the way of their theory.

Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

 

[Frogster]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I found this post and I PROPHECYKID is 100% accurate. I will give my $0.02, then I will present some evidence in support of the sabbath, and the requirement of its participation.



The problem many of us (Christians) have is that we tend to not differentiate between what has authority first: God's word, or man's. The answer is God's word: if one disobeys a man like Paul or Matthew especially in order to obey his/her Father in Heaven, then s/he should be perfectly comfortable with that. Yet, God Himself, with His Word, commands His children to do these things forever, even Yahoshuah.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

Technically (I believe) when we were perfect we had the full law inside of us, and we executed it perfectly. God didn't need to tell us anything because we were already perfect. With the fall of man, God had to remind and teach us what to and what not to do. This is why the commandments were given AFTER Egypt because everything God commanded against the Egyptians did in mass.

Now, considering Yahoshuah the Christ is the Wisdom/Word of God, and we know He was with God from the beginning (John 1:1,) and that Christ can resurrect (i.e. will not die,) then we must accept that we must obey every commandment given by God. The only person with the authority to change the law is God.

Some may bring up Paul and his notes on the food laws, or perhaps the justice laws, or even sacrifices as a counter argument to "following all of the law." Here is the deal: either Paul is trying to say something else when he says all food is good with thanksgiving (1 Timothy 4:4), or he is going against a direct commandment from God. God never changed health laws and He really didn't change the justice Laws, which were given because of the atrocities going on in Egypt (spiritually and physically.) The purpose of the "put to death" laws were to send the creatures to the Father immediately, instead of their sin evolving into another Egypt. Now that Yahoshuah has sacrificed Himself, (and also because Israel is scattared,) these "put to death" laws are executed by Him. These laws were laws that God gave Israel as a nation and as a people, and He would be our King. And, sacrifices were never mandatory, but it is something you should do innately for a King - or someone you love. You should give something important to you to someone you love - whether it be a bull or time. It shows appreciation.

"And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying, 'Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, [even] of the herd, and of the flock...'" Leviticus 1:1-2

If you don't have cattle He lists in the second chapter the options you have for offerings. Flour and oil are a couple of options.


To sum, if God said it and He has not changed it in any way, then we are to this day and forever supposed to follow His commands. Even if it is impossible to follow all of His commands right now, we know that Yahoshuah received His crown by following every single commandment set by God, innocently paying for our sins He didn't commit by death, and consequently (because of His blamelessness) resurrected back to life. Therefore, we must do it too if we want to even be considered to receive a crown of life. When we fail to obey a commandment we have to acknowledge that and strive to obey it, knowing Christ will strengthen us. Following the sabbath is an ancient spiritual law (the 4th commandment) that connects man with God. It is meant for us: a reminder that as images of God we are entitled to one day of rest just like our Father.





God said in Exodus

"And God spake all these words, saying

(1)I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (2)Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (3)Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

(4)Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:1-11

The importance of this 4th commandment is much more than most people may realize. Egypt in exodus times was similar to a modern country today. There was debauchery, slaves (people with debt) were abused and beaten, and no one worshiped the one True God - they focused on the many false ones that they idolized. But here is the kicker: before the Law was officially given, the sabbath was already practiced. In fact, on the fifteenth day of the second month (Exodus 16:1) when Moses and his lot were wandering, God rained manna down for them to eat. Moses then told them

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein. And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:23-28

When Yahoshuah and his disciples were getting food to survive their journey on the sabbath, the pharisees tempted Him with a law question concerning the sabbath.

"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 2:23-29

This illustrates the importance of the sabbath. It is not a day of bondage where you are so bogged down on "traditional laws of men" that you can't even get something to eat! The sabbath is a holy day of reflection and connection with the Father. It is a day of rest.

This also illustrates that Yahoshuah, and even the people of that time, did not expect the Sabbath to be done away with or changed. If Yahoshuah wanted people to change or discontinue the sabbath He would have told us. The seventh day of the week has been and always will be the sabbath. If you are gentile but want to be a Christian (which is an Hebrew that follows and believes Christ,) you must also follow the law AND believe on Christ. This is because Christ Himself followed the whole law and executed it perfectly. If you believe in Him and what He stands for, you have to walk the same line as Him. Perfect execution of this law by us is impossible right now, but it is still expected and demanded from our Father. The only thing that keeps us from death is what Yahoshuah did for us. Follow the sabbath (Friday night at sundown to Saturday night at sundown): it really helps. Also, follow His other 7 High Sabbaths:

Passover
Feast of Unleavened Bread
Feast of First Fruits

Feast of Pentacost

Feast of Trumpets
The Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles

Each one of these days represents something specifically concerning Christ. For example, Passover is on the first full moon of the Hebrew calendar, and represents the last supper and death of Christ. Feast of Tabernacles is the future "Wedding Day" of the Church and Christ.

This is all law, show me what this has to do with the Abrahmic cov, and I will eat a living frog.

Give me one verse please. Paul predated Moses, and said we are in that cov, not the one that came 430 years later. Gal 3;17.

 

[nathanlandon1]

This is all law, show me what this has to do with the Abrahmic cov, and I will eat a living frog.

Give me one verse please. Paul predated Moses, and said we are in that cov, not the one that came 430 years later. Gal 3;17.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matt 5:18


Like I said before, I have no problem disobeying Paul, or even Moses, in order to obey my Father's Word. The above quote is from the mouth of Yahoshuah, the Word of God. Galations 3:17 is from Paul, a man. And, though prophets get their inspiration from God, the man called Yahoshuah the Christ is perfect is wisdom, so I will go with Him.

Moses killed a man and showed pride even when he was a prophet of God. Paul killed Christians and collected taxes. These people, though great men, are human, and susceptible to the same temptations as all men. The Holy Spirit can move on their spirits to cause them to do whatever according to His will. However, they are still men. If I see a contradiction with God's Word, then I am siding with God.

The bible is compiled in a destructive way: separating the books into two different sections provides this avenue for Christians and Hebrews to separate themselves when they are two sides of the same coin. Nothing has changed; Yahoshuah did what He did so that we could be restored. But, we were not expected to stop following His Words, and make a paradigm shift to exclusively following the words of the disciples. (Ironically, much of the "new-testament" is like "Torah 101/Cliff Notes." The disciples had two different audiences to preach to: Hebrew sinners that grew up with a culture of the Torah and the book of the Prophets, and gentiles that don't know a Torah from a table. Therefore, the "New Testament" by default is a sort of regurgitation of the old testament, with "cultural lubricant" to package it in an acceptable/understandable way to mostly the gentiles who reject it. Paul spoke in several Greek idioms and colloquialisms. The only real new piece of information in the bible is the Gospels. Even the events in The Apocalypse (Revelation) were prophesied by Daniel and many other prophets of the Old Testament.







Paul, therefore, cannot predate Moses because the Law of which Christ spoke of in Matt 5:18 contains the 5 Books of MOSES, who lived in the post-antediluvian world. Even Paul's wisdom comes from the Law and the Book of the Prophets - also more colloquially know as the Old Testament.

 

[7steps]

Sorry, but if the promise came by law, it would exclude gentiles, and the Spirit. I understand messianics think differently, they are israel centered, and want gentiles to lives as jews, but scripture stands in the way of their theory.

Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.

Sorry, but the promise always came by the same thing unmerited favor of YHWH, so it never really excluded gentiles and the set apart spirit has always been our counselor. The physical fulfillment of which happened in acts on the exact date prophesied within the Torah Seven Sevens and Pentecost. I understand a vast majority of Christians think differently, they are Paul centered but Scripture stands in the way of their theory.

And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where YHWH your God has driven you, 2 and return to YHWH your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 then YHWH your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where YHWH your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there YHWH your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. 5 And YHWH your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it. And he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. 6 And YHWH your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. 7 And YHWH your God will put all these curses on your foes and enemies who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the voice of YHWH and keep all his commandments that I command you today. 9 YHWH your God will make you abundantly prosperous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your womb and in the fruit of your cattle and in the fruit of your ground. For YHWH will again take delight in prospering you, as he took delight in your fathers, 10 when you obey the voice of YHWH your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that are written in this Book of the Law, when you turn to YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of YHWH your God that I command you today, by loving YHWH your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and YHWH your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving YHWH your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that YHWH swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Dt 30:1–20). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.



The law of YHWH is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of YHWH is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of YHWH are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of YHWH is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of YHWH is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of YHWH are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.


The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Ps 19:7–11). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

So again your are throwing Paul under the bus by misquoting him. And if that is what you want him to be saying then he is arguing with YHWH and YHWH's inspired scripture which makes scripture either wrong or Paul wrong. I rather go with scripture being right. And I find myself doing what I said I would not do- arguing with people that think Galatians and Paul are best.

 

[Frogster]

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matt 5:18


Like I said before, I have no problem disobeying Paul, or even Moses, in order to obey my Father's Word. The above quote is from the mouth of Yahoshuah, the Word of God. Galations 3:17 is from Paul, a man. And, though prophets get their inspiration from God, the man called Yahoshuah the Christ is perfect is wisdom, so I will go with Him.

Moses killed a man and showed pride even when he was a prophet of God. Paul killed Christians and collected taxes. These people, though great men, are human, and susceptible to the same temptations as all men. The Holy Spirit can move on their spirits to cause them to do whatever according to His will. However, they are still men. If I see a contradiction with God's Word, then I am siding with God.

The bible is compiled in a destructive way: separating the books into two different sections provides this avenue for Christians and Hebrews to separate themselves when they are two sides of the same coin. Nothing has changed; Yahoshuah did what He did so that we could be restored. But, we were not expected to stop following His Words, and make a paradigm shift to exclusively following the words of the disciples. (Ironically, much of the "new-testament" is like "Torah 101/Cliff Notes." The disciples had two different audiences to preach to: Hebrew sinners that grew up with a culture of the Torah and the book of the Prophets, and gentiles that don't know a Torah from a table. Therefore, the "New Testament" by default is a sort of regurgitation of the old testament, with "cultural lubricant" to package it in an acceptable/understandable way to mostly the gentiles who reject it. Paul spoke in several Greek idioms and colloquialisms. The only real new piece of information in the bible is the Gospels. Even the events in The Apocalypse (Revelation) were prophesied by Daniel and many other prophets of the Old Testament.







Paul, therefore, cannot predate Moses because the Law of which Christ spoke of in Matt 5:18 contains the 5 Books of MOSES, who lived in the post-antediluvian world. Even Paul's wisdom comes from the Law and the Book of the Prophets - also more colloquially know as the Old Testament.

Moses did.

Gen 15:6 And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness

Confirmed by Peter, all nations..

Acts 3:25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’

So really, you can choose to omit the man righteous before corcumcision, but Moses wrote Gen, so it sounds like you are selecting text.

 

[Frogster]

Sorry, but the promise always came by the same thing unmerited favor of YHWH, so it never really excluded gentiles and the set apart spirit has always been our counselor. The physical fulfillment of which happened in acts on the exact date prophesied within the Torah Seven Sevens and Pentecost. I understand a vast majority of Christians think differently, they are Paul centered but Scripture stands in the way of their theory.

I was the one saying it did not exclude gentiles.

And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where YHWH your God has driven you, 2 and return to YHWH your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 then YHWH your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where YHWH your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there YHWH your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. 5 And YHWH your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it. And he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. 6 And YHWH your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. 7 And YHWH your God will put all these curses on your foes and enemies who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the voice of YHWH and keep all his commandments that I command you today. 9 YHWH your God will make you abundantly prosperous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your womb and in the fruit of your cattle and in the fruit of your ground. For YHWH will again take delight in prospering you, as he took delight in your fathers, 10 when you obey the voice of YHWH your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that are written in this Book of the Law, when you turn to YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of YHWH your God that I command you today, by loving YHWH your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and YHWH your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving YHWH your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that YHWH swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Dt 30:1–20). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.



The law of YHWH is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of YHWH is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of YHWH are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of YHWH is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of YHWH is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of YHWH are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.


The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Ps 19:7–11). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

So again your are throwing Paul under the bus by misquoting him. And if that is what you want him to be saying then he is arguing with YHWH and YHWH's inspired scripture which makes scripture either wrong or Paul wrong. I rather go with scripture being right. And I find myself doing what I said I would not do- arguing with people that think Galatians and Paul are best.

Bottom line here, all are offspring in Abraham, it was before the law, that is a fact, and Sabbath and law were 430 years later.

How did I miss quote Paul?

Show me?

I am saying all the Judaism, nationalism, and law, are not about Abraham.

I asked for one verse, but did not get it, i got verses, but they do not disprove the Abrahmic cov, 430 years before thr law, for all.

Gal 3:28.28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave [7] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.



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