Sabbath keeping

[Bob S]

Again, I wasn't quoting "me". Man means just that a human being and everyone means just that. If you want to be excluded from the promises Christ gives on keeping His Sabbath, that's a choice one can make.

I know your position on this matter, regardless how many times I show what Christ of the Bible actually says, it doesn't seem to make a difference, so I will leave it as agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough, but not something I would want to be wrong about.

SB lets just say I am wrong and you are correct. Wouldn't it behoove you to answer the questions and comment on the statements I made instead of your usual predetermined answers that do not address the issues I presented? You need to be able to answer objections if you are really interested in winning converts.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SB lets just say I am wrong and you are correct. Wouldn't it behoove you to answer the questions and comment on the statements I made instead of your usual predetermined answers that do not address the issues I presented? You need to be able to answer objections if you are really interested in winning converts.

I have too many times to count. You ask the same questions over and over, that have been addressed for years. Wish I could make you see God's Truth Psa 119:151 but all I can do is keep you in my prayers.

 

[Bob S]

I have too many times to count. You ask the same questions over and over, that have been addressed for years. Wish I could make you see God's Truth Psa 119:151 but all I can do is keep you in my prayers.

Answered my questions??? That is simply not true SB. You avoid answering my statements and previous questions. let's start with my post that started this conversation:

God has never demanded or ask "us" to keep the Israelite Sabbath SB. That is a fact you cannot deny. (if that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)The same fact is that we are not asked to keep the feast days or the new moon. Circumcision was not God's plan for New Covenant Gentiles. As much as you would like to deny the following it is still there in the Bible and does not need your hollow interpretation. The 10 commandments according to the following verses were only temporary. 2Cor3: (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)
4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant​

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The writer is telling us that even though the 10 commandments were glorious the ministry of the Holy Spirit is more glorious and the 10 commandments were only transient (temporary) If the writer was inspired, by our God, to write those verses, we, who believe in God, should listen to His words and take them to heart. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

This is not the only place Paul and other writers explain we are not under the Law. 1Jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth IF we believe in the one God sent AND LOVE OTHERS AS JESUS LOVES US. It is not about the ceremonies we keep, it is all about how we treat our fellow man. That is the great command and is the one if kept by mankind that would end all strife. That is the good news we should be sending to all of the World not how to rest at a certain time. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

Jesus said He came to bring peace. He did it by doing away with the demands of the laws of the Old Covenant. Eph2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

How do we find peace? Peace comes by believing in Jesus and loving our fellow man. My mental rest is in Jesus. My physical rest is when I need it. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Answered my questions??? That is simply not true SB. You avoid answering my statements and previous questions. let's start with my post that started this conversation:

God has never demanded or ask "us" to keep the Israelite Sabbath SB. That is a fact you cannot deny. (if that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)The same fact is that we are not asked to keep the feast days or the new moon. Circumcision was not God's plan for New Covenant Gentiles. As much as you would like to deny the following it is still there in the Bible and does not need your hollow interpretation. The 10 commandments according to the following verses were only temporary. 2Cor3: (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)
4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant​

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The writer is telling us that even though the 10 commandments were glorious the ministry of the Holy Spirit is more glorious and the 10 commandments were only transient (temporary) If the writer was inspired, by our God, to write those verses, we, who believe in God, should listen to His words and take them to heart. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

This is not the only place Paul and other writers explain we are not under the Law. 1Jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth IF we believe in the one God sent AND LOVE OTHERS AS JESUS LOVES US. It is not about the ceremonies we keep, it is all about how we treat our fellow man. That is the great command and is the one if kept by mankind that would end all strife. That is the good news we should be sending to all of the World not how to rest at a certain time. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

Jesus said He came to bring peace. He did it by doing away with the demands of the laws of the Old Covenant. Eph2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

How do we find peace? Peace comes by believing in Jesus and loving our fellow man. My mental rest is in Jesus. My physical rest is when I need it. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

Let’s take a look how many times this same argument you post over and over again has been addressed:

Bob said

6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

@Gary K addressed

If the it was the law that was vanishing away why does scripture say Mises' face shown so brightly the Israelites couldn't look at him and he had to wear a veil over his face before he could talk to them?

Exodus 24: 32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

2Cirinthians 3: 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

@BobRyan

T is only death for those who are unsaved and still under the old covenant.

By contrast "do not take God's name in vain" is part of the Law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.
Those who construe the new covenant to be a gateway to taking God's name in vain - do not read it (in fact they almost never quote the text of the New Covenant)

So how you look at it will depend on the POV of the context in which you approach it.

And again

And the NEW Covenant according to Paul is the one we find quoted in Rom 8 from the OT in Jer 31:31-34

The Spirit does not delete "do not take God's name in vain" -- because under the NEW Covenant it WRITES the LAW of God on the heart see Jer 31:31-34

without the transforming work of the Holy Spirit - in the new creation , new heart -- the one lead only by the flesh "DOES NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN THEY" Rom 8:

5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

2 Cor 3: 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

As anyone who has studied the English language is able to see, in the above verses, the subject of those verses is the NEW Covenant vs the OLD Covenant - where both have the ten commandments. And in the case of the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 they are written on the heart by the SPIRIT - but under the OLD covenant they remains external - on tablets of stone alone.

Therefore under BOTH covenants it is always a sin "to take God's name in vain". But under the NEW Covenant - the New Heart (no longer the stony heart) that command is written on the heart - the new creation.

Under the OLD Covenant that same Law known to Jeremiah and his readers in Jer 31:31-34 yet without the Spirit, without the gospel - merely condemns the sinner "for all have sinned" Rom 3:23 and "The ages of sin is death" Rom 6:23

@Studyman

I believe in God's New Covenant, where the Letter of the Law of forgiveness, " Lev. 4: 28. Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

31. "and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him", Kills.

These "Works of the Law" had a Spiritual meaning. By the "letter" there was death. But by the Spirit there was Life.

The definition of Sin and Righteousness has not changed. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible, and Paul.

And the Scriptures I posted, that you pretty much ignored, show that God's "instruction in righteousness" was NOT "made" just for men born of a certain DNA as you preach, rather, God's way, given first to the Jews, was created for all men, Jew and Gentile.

As it is written, as Paul teaches. "For there is no respect of persons with God."

This was just a quick search, I have addressed with you and others and just a quick look on your profile you have been posting the same argument for years, never trying to correctly understand Paul or reconcile his teachings with Jesus, which is why Pauls writings comes with a warning for this exact scenario 2 Peter 3:16 so you cannot in good faith say your same argument you use over and over again has not been addressed more than a dozen times, there comes a point its best to walk away. Mat 10:14-16

take care

 

[EJ M]

Answered my questions??? That is simply not true SB. You avoid answering my statements and previous questions. let's start with my post that started this conversation:

God has never demanded or ask "us" to keep the Israelite Sabbath SB. That is a fact you cannot deny. (if that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)The same fact is that we are not asked to keep the feast days or the new moon. Circumcision was not God's plan for New Covenant Gentiles. As much as you would like to deny the following it is still there in the Bible and does not need your hollow interpretation. The 10 commandments according to the following verses were only temporary. 2Cor3: (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)
4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant​

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The writer is telling us that even though the 10 commandments were glorious the ministry of the Holy Spirit is more glorious and the 10 commandments were only transient (temporary) If the writer was inspired, by our God, to write those verses, we, who believe in God, should listen to His words and take them to heart. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

This is not the only place Paul and other writers explain we are not under the Law. 1Jn 3 tells us we belong to the truth IF we believe in the one God sent AND LOVE OTHERS AS JESUS LOVES US. It is not about the ceremonies we keep, it is all about how we treat our fellow man. That is the great command and is the one if kept by mankind that would end all strife. That is the good news we should be sending to all of the World not how to rest at a certain time. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

Jesus said He came to bring peace. He did it by doing away with the demands of the laws of the Old Covenant. Eph2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

How do we find peace? Peace comes by believing in Jesus and loving our fellow man. My mental rest is in Jesus. My physical rest is when I need it. (If that statement is not true then answer it with the truth.)

Bob
While I appreciate your clarity in pointing out the scriptures, you are stripping your gears trying to present truth and reason.
Here is why,
EGW taught that somehow Michael the Archangel morphed into Jesus Christ and SDAs believe this.
II Cor 11:2-4,
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Heb 1 is abundantly clear, Jesus Chris is not an angel, never was, never will be.
The Lord Jesus Christ created the angels.
one of the arguments is, 'Michael‘ means, one who is like God.
Jesus our Lord is not like God......... He is God!
So when anyone worships Michael it isn’t possible to reason scripture with them, because Michael cannot impart the Holy Spirit to anyone, only the real, true Jesus can. So all who worship 'another Jesus' don’t have the Holy Spirit and cannot discern the scriptures.
SDAs judge and condemn the pope for changing the Sabbath, and anyone who goes to church on Sunday, but have no problem changing the beginning and ending of the Sabbath near the poles, and don’t hesitate buying utilities and kindling a fire. Worrisome, but God will decide. And He is merciful And just.
Peace and blessings!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Bob
While I appreciate your clarity in pointing out the scriptures, you are stripping your gears trying to present truth and reason.
Here is why,
EGW taught that somehow Michael the Archangel morphed into Jesus Christ and SDAs believe this.
II Cor 11:2-4,
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Heb 1 is abundantly clear, Jesus Chris is not an angel, never was, never will be.
The Lord Jesus Christ created the angels.
one of the arguments is, 'Michael‘ means, one who is like God.
Jesus our Lord is not like God......... He is God!
So when anyone worships Michael it isn’t possible to reason scripture with them, because Michael cannot impart the Holy Spirit to anyone, only the real, true Jesus can. So all who worship 'another Jesus' don’t have the Holy Spirit and cannot discern the scriptures.
SDAs judge and condemn the pope for changing the Sabbath, and anyone who goes to church on Sunday, but have no problem changing the beginning and ending of the Sabbath near the poles, and don’t hesitate buying utilities and kindling a fire. Worrisome, but God will decide. And He is merciful And just.
Peace and blessings!

You are misinformed, this is not a teaching of the SDA church

Jesus is God, the Creator- King of Kings Lord of Lords.

Angel just means messenger; Jesus is not an angle or a created being. He is not rest, He is not the Sabbath commandment, nor is He an angle or the creation and this is not what the SDA's teach. The SDA church does not teach to worship a created being.

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

Who is the Archangel Michael? What does He do? What does His name mean? And why do we need to be prepared when He stands up? Learn this incredible truth today!

www.amazingfacts.org

Jesus goes by many names, For example, Jesus is the Lamb - does that make Him a created being? That people are worshipping lambs. No.

I know of no SDA who pays for their utilities or kindles a fire on the Sabbath It's weird one would claim to know what over 20 million people do in the privacy of their own home. There is only one God and only He is all knowing. There is however lot of scripture about judging and accusing someone falsely in scriptures.

Posting direct quotes from the pope or RCC about them admitting they changed God's times and law and what we are warned about in scripture would happen Dan 7:25 is not judging, its actually following God's Word because He gives His people warnings, if we are willing to listen to Him.. Only Jesus can rightfully Judge us, we all have to stand before Him one day soon based what we do. I would not want to stand before Jesus when asked why one didn't keep the Sabbath commandment and say- well those SDAs over there never kept it according to the way I judged them and that be my answer.

 

[Bob S]

Bob
While I appreciate your clarity in pointing out the scriptures, you are stripping your gears trying to present truth and reason.
Here is why,
EGW taught that somehow Michael the Archangel morphed into Jesus Christ and SDAs believe this.
II Cor 11:2-4,
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Heb 1 is abundantly clear, Jesus Chris is not an angel, never was, never will be.
The Lord Jesus Christ created the angels.
one of the arguments is, 'Michael‘ means, one who is like God.
Jesus our Lord is not like God......... He is God!
So when anyone worships Michael it isn’t possible to reason scripture with them, because Michael cannot impart the Holy Spirit to anyone, only the real, true Jesus can. So all who worship 'another Jesus' don’t have the Holy Spirit and cannot discern the scriptures.
SDAs judge and condemn the pope for changing the Sabbath, and anyone who goes to church on Sunday, but have no problem changing the beginning and ending of the Sabbath near the poles, and don’t hesitate buying utilities and kindling a fire. Worrisome, but God will decide. And He is merciful And just.
Peace and blessings!

Thank you for your post to me. I realize what I try to communicate to SDAs is immediately blocked from their minds. Only by submitting to the calling of the Holy Spirit can there be any change. So, why do I take the time to challenge Sabbath observers? I do it because of the hundreds of lurkers who read the posts who could easily be convinced that salvation hinges on keeping the Sabbath of the vanished old covenant that never included Gentile nations. The new covenant and better covenant, not like the old one ratified by Jesus at Calvary, is not about keeping ritual days. It is about how we treat our God and our fellow man. It all boils down to a covenant of LOVE.

You are so correct in your analysis of what SDAs believe about Michael. Here are a couple of Ellen White's the SDA prophet's writings on the subject.

EGW 4aSG 57.4 Spiritual gifts vol 4a​

Satan exulted that he had succeeded in causing Moses to sin against God. For this transgression, Moses came under the dominion of death. If he had continued faithful, and his life had not been marred with that one transgression, in failing to give to God the glory of bringing water from the rock, he would have entered the promised land, and would have been translated to Heaven without seeing death. Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven.

Desire of Ages​

The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Daniel 10:21. Of Gabriel the Saviour speaks in the Revelation, saying that “He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John.” Revelation 1:1. And to John the angel declared, “I am a fellow servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets.” Revelation 22:9, R. V. Wonderful thought—that the angel who stands next in honor to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men. DA 99.1

 

[EJ M]

You are misinformed, this is not a teaching of the SDA church

Jesus is God, the Creator- King of Kings Lord of Lords.

Angel just means messenger; Jesus is not an angle or a created being. He is not rest, He is not the Sabbath commandment, nor is He an angle or the creation and this is not what the SDA's teach. The SDA church does not teach to worship a created being.

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

Who is the Archangel Michael? What does He do? What does His name mean? And why do we need to be prepared when He stands up? Learn this incredible truth today!

www.amazingfacts.org

Jesus goes by many names, For example, Jesus is the Lamb - does that make Him a created being? That people are worshipping lambs. No.

I know of no SDA who pays for their utilities or kindles a fire on the Sabbath It's weird one would claim to know what over 20 million people do in the privacy of their own home. There is only one God and only He is all knowing. There is however lot of scripture about judging and accusing someone falsely in scriptures.

Posting direct quotes from the pope or RCC about them admitting they changed God's times and law and what we are warned about in scripture would happen Dan 7:25 is not judging, its actually following God's Word because He gives His people warnings, if we are willing to listen to Him.. Only Jesus can rightfully Judge us, we all have to stand before Him one day soon based what we do. I would not want to stand before Jesus when asked why one didn't keep the Sabbath commandment and say- well those SDAs over there never kept it according to the way I judged them and that be my answer.

Does the sda church believe jesus is michael the archangel​

Based on the provided search results, here is a concise and accurate answer: The Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church teaches that Jesus Christ and Michael theArchangel are one and the same, with Michael being another title or aspect of Jesus’ nature. This view is supported by various sources, including:

• Ellen G. White’s writings, which identify Jesus as Michael (e.g., “Michael is but one of the many titles applied to the pre-existent Christ, or Son of God.”)
• The Clear Word Bible’s paraphrased texts, which sometimes equate Jesus with Michael (e.g., “When Christ descends from heaven as the Archangel…”)
• Statements from SDA theologians and scholars, such as John Gill’s commentary on Jude 9, which interprets Michael as an eternal angel, meaning Jesus Christ.

However, it’s essential to note that not all Christian denominations or traditions share this view. Some, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, distinguish between Michael and Jesus, while others, like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, identify Michael with Adam or the Ancient of Days.
In summary, the SDA Church believes that Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are identical, with Michael being a title or aspect of Jesus’ nature

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Does the sda church believe jesus is michael the archangel​

Based on the provided search results, here is a concise and accurate answer: The Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) Church teaches that Jesus Christ and Michael theArchangel are one and the same, with Michael being another title or aspect of Jesus’ nature. This view is supported by various sources, including:

• Ellen G. White’s writings, which identify Jesus as Michael (e.g., “Michael is but one of the many titles applied to the pre-existent Christ, or Son of God.”)
• The Clear Word Bible’s paraphrased texts, which sometimes equate Jesus with Michael (e.g., “When Christ descends from heaven as the Archangel…”)
• Statements from SDA theologians and scholars, such as John Gill’s commentary on Jude 9, which interprets Michael as an eternal angel, meaning Jesus Christ.

However, it’s essential to note that not all Christian denominations or traditions share this view. Some, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, distinguish between Michael and Jesus, while others, like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, identify Michael with Adam or the Ancient of Days.
In summary, the SDA Church believes that Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are identical, with Michael being a title or aspect of Jesus’ nature

This is different than what you accused us of, that we worship a created being. I provided a link that explains why we think Michael the Archangel is another title for Christ. He goes by many in scripture, we worship God, the Creator of all heaven and earth.

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

Who is the Archangel Michael? What does He do? What does His name mean? And why do we need to be prepared when He stands up? Learn this incredible truth today!

www.amazingfacts.org

 

[EJ M]

Thank you for your post to me. I realize what I try to communicate to SDAs is immediately blocked from their minds. Only by submitting to the calling of the Holy Spirit can there be any change. So, why do I take the time to challenge Sabbath observers? I do it because of the hundreds of lurkers who read the posts who could easily be convinced that salvation hinges on keeping the Sabbath of the vanished old covenant that never included Gentile nations. The new covenant and better covenant, not like the old one ratified by Jesus at Calvary, is not about keeping ritual days. It is about how we treat our God and our fellow man. It all boils down to a covenant of LOVE.

You are so correct in your analysis of what SDAs believe about Michael. Here are a couple of Ellen White's the SDA prophet's writings on the subject.

EGW 4aSG 57.4 Spiritual gifts vol 4a​

Satan exulted that he had succeeded in causing Moses to sin against God. For this transgression, Moses came under the dominion of death. If he had continued faithful, and his life had not been marred with that one transgression, in failing to give to God the glory of bringing water from the rock, he would have entered the promised land, and would have been translated to Heaven without seeing death. Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses, came down from Heaven, after he had remained in the grave a short time, and resurrected him, and took him to Heaven.

Desire of Ages​

The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.” Daniel 10:21. Of Gabriel the Saviour speaks in the Revelation, saying that “He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John.” Revelation 1:1. And to John the angel declared, “I am a fellow servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets.” Revelation 22:9, R. V. Wonderful thought—that the angel who stands next in honor to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men. DA 99.1

Thank you Bob, I post because of Ezekiel 3 and 33.
And I Kings 22 also has an interesting story which helps me believe that God always has at least one truthful witness even among 400 liars.
my perception is that no one who names the Name of Christ will stand before Jesus Christ our Lord and claim no one told them. He is a faithful witness and will always judge righteously. Likely won’t see you before we get to heaven so let’s keep the faith!

 

[EJ M]

This is different than what you accused us of, that we worship a created being. I provided a link that explains why we think Michael is another name for Christ. He goes by many names in scripture, we worship God, the Creator of all heaven and earth.

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

Who is the Archangel Michael? What does He do? What does His name mean? And why do we need to be prepared when He stands up? Learn this incredible truth today!

www.amazingfacts.org

Hi SB
Please, my desire is to accuse no one, only quoting what is believed by EGW and her disciples. I have no desire to read any explanation/spin to in an attempt to convince that Michael morphed into Jesus. Hebrews 1 is abundantly clear, Jesus is not an angel, never was, never will be. That is good enough for me.
Also in Jude Michael tells the satan, the Lord rebuke you. Why would he say that if he was Jesus? Jesus IS Lord. And Michael is an angel, therefore a created being.
As far as me 'claiming no one actually keeps the Sabbath, I don’t think you will find that anywhere in what I wrote, I wrote, I don’t believe anyone does. You are correct, I certainly can‘t see in 20 million homes to see how each keeps the Sabbath.
So I will clarify, I have never seen anyone keep the Sabbath without changing anything God wrote and I I don’t believe anyone does according to the commandment.
Obviously, I may be mistaken.
Remember, when you pay rent and utilities, it is for all month, including Sabbath.
So tell me please, do you start your car, use any electricity, internet or utilities on Sabbath? Do you know anyone who doesn’t?
As far as the Pope claiming to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, I don’t believe that anymore than I believe any of his other preposterous claims. There was no Pope until about the fourth century and the writings of the early church indicate that they congregated on Sunday pretty much after the first century. So that claim has about as much credibility as the claim Peter was the first pope.
Almost all the reformers believed the Pope is the antichrist as I also do.
Peace and blessings!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Obviously, I may be mistaken.

Yes, good point.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We do not believe Jesus morphed into Michael, "an angel" a created-being to claim otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation.

It's just another title for Jesus

When the sins reach heaven and Michael stands up- its not a created being who makes the decisions when enoughs enough - Jesus has Authority over all heaven and earth Mat 28:18-20

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

It is the voice of the Archangel that raises the dead in Christ, and the Lord Himself who shouts it. This indicates that they are one and the same. Jesus is the one who shouts with the voice of the Archangel, or "greatest messenger," to raise the dead!

Where does it show angels have power to raise the dead?

It shows the Angel of the Lord in scripture being worshipped.

Where does it say in scripture anyone can worship angles. John was rebuked for doing so mistakenly..

In Revelation, Michael is portrayed as leading the heavenly hosts, or armies, in the war against the rebellious Lucifer that took place. "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels" (Revelation 12:7). Here the term "dragon" is a symbolic name for Satan, the leader of evil (verse 9), so it is very safe to assume that Michael is another emblematic name for Jesus, the embodiment and leader of good. But there is more evidence.

Just as Israel was preparing for its first battle after crossing into the Promised Land, Joshua had an encounter with an unusual warrior. "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so" (Joshua 5:13-15). Not only did Joshua worship this being, but the heavenly captain received his worship. If he had been a mere angel, he would have rebuked Joshua just like the angel rebuked John for trying to worship him (see Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9).

In each case in which the angel of the Lord accepts worship, it is clearly the Son of God. But where regular, created angels are worshiped, they refuse it! Even Jesus reminded Satan in the wilderness, "For it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:8).

In fact, all the created angels are commanded to worship Jesus as they did during His first advent. "And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). The devil is infuriated because he knows that someday even he will be compelled to acknowledge Jesus as king and worship Him. "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10, 11).

Notice the striking connection that even Paul makes between an angel of God and Jesus. "You received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14). The phrase "Lord of hosts" appears 245 times in the Bible, and it refers to the "commander of God's angelic army." So the "captain of the Lord's host" that Joshua saw was not an angel, but Jesus Himself. That explains why He demanded that Joshua remove his shoes. The place was holy because Jesus was there, just as Jesus' presence at the burning bush made that ground holy for Moses. So Michael, the captain of the Lord's host, or army, is another title for Jesus.

 

[EJ M]

Good Morning!
Thanks for your efforts, but no thanks.
No amount of effort will ever convince me Michael morphed into Jesus.
I believe Jesus created Michael.
Col 1:12-19,
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Heb1 is abundantly clear, Jesus is not an angel, never was.
Further evidence, to my knowledge the main two churches that believe this (Michael morphed into Jesus) are the SDA and JW, both were followers of the failed Miller prophecies and were not considered Christian by Protestant, Orthodox or Catholic.
And to my knowledge no Christians believed this before the great disappointment.
I find it puzzling that anyone would believe and teach this when Heb 1 is so abundantly clear. Possibly an attempt by the satan to downsize the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, creator God, ruler of the universe both now and forever, Praise the Lord! What benefit is claiming Michael morphed into Jesus?
And what are the consequences of being wrong?
And what are the consequences of simply believing Heb 1 and rejecting this as another Jesus, therefore heresy? (II Cor 11)
Also, please answer my prior questions, do you buy utilities, use internet, cook stove or flip a light switch, start, dive a car on Sabbath?
Do you know anyone who doesn’t do these things On Sabbath?
Also if I go back to Barrow AK, when does the Sabbath begin and end in June and July according to the scriptural commandment, not according to men?
(Roman’s 2:1-2)
Likewise Also January and February?
Peace and Blessings?

 

[EJ M]

We do not believe Jesus morphed into Michael, "an angel" a created-being to claim otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation.

You don’t use this word, but in essence, that is what you believe , why?

It's just another title for Jesus

When the sins reach heaven and Michael stands up- its not a created being who makes the decisions when enoughs enough - Jesus has Authority over all heaven and earth Mat 28:18-20

Do you have any scripture that proves, or hints that Michael was not created?
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

It is the voice of the Archangel that raises the dead in Christ, and the Lord Himself who shouts it. This indicates that they are one and the same. Jesus is the one who shouts with the voice of the Archangel, or "greatest messenger," to raise the dead!

Where does it show angels have power to raise the dead?

It shows the Angel of the Lord in scripture being worshipped.

Where does it say in scripture anyone can worship angles. John was rebuked for doing so mistakenly..

No angel is worthy of worship, not Michael, not Gabriel only God

In Revelation, Michael is portrayed as leading the heavenly hosts, or armies, in the war against the rebellious Lucifer that took place. "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels" (Revelation 12:7). Here the term "dragon" is a symbolic name for Satan, the leader of evil (verse 9), so it is very safe to assume that Michael is another emblematic name for Jesus, the embodiment and leader of good. But there is more evidence.

Just as Israel was preparing for its first battle after crossing into the Promised Land, Joshua had an encounter with an unusual warrior. "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so" (Joshua 5:13-15). Not only did Joshua worship this being, but the heavenly captain received his worship. If he had been a mere angel, he would have rebuked Joshua just like the angel rebuked John for trying to worship him (see Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9).

In each case in which the angel of the Lord accepts worship, it is clearly the Son of God. But where regular, created angels are worshiped, they refuse it! Even Jesus reminded Satan in the wilderness, "For it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:8).

In fact, all the created angels are commanded to worship Jesus as they did during His first advent. "And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:6). The devil is infuriated because he knows that someday even he will be compelled to acknowledge Jesus as king and worship Him. "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2:10, 11).
This is how I know Jesus is not an angel, nor an Archangel
Notice the striking connection that even Paul makes between an angel of God and Jesus. "You received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14). The phrase "Lord of hosts" appears 245 times in the Bible, and it refers to the "commander of God's angelic army." So the "captain of the Lord's host" that Joshua saw was not an angel, but Jesus Himself. That explains why He demanded that Joshua remove his shoes. The place was holy because Jesus was there, just as Jesus' presence at the burning bush made that ground holy for Moses. So Michael, the captain of the Lord's host, or army, is another title for Jesus.

So do you believe Jesus is an Archangel?

 

[Bob S]

Also, please answer my prior questions, do you buy utilities, use internet, cook stove or flip a light switch, start, dive a car on Sabbath?
Do you know anyone who doesn’t do these things On Sabbath?
Also if I go back to Barrow AK, when does the Sabbath begin and end in June and July according to the scriptural commandment, not according to men?
(Roman’s 2:1-2)
Likewise Also January and February?
Peace and Blessings?

Hi E JM, I too would like to get a reaction to all the questions and comments we make. Sb is not accustomed to commenting on anything opposing her version of Christianity. Unfortunately, It is either her way or the highway.

Take care brother/sister until we meet again at the feet of Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You don’t use this word, but in essence, that is what you believe , why?



No angel is worthy of worship, not Michael, not Gabriel only God

So do you believe Jesus is an Archangel?

Gross misrepresentation , obviously you are not caring to understand , but that’s ok all gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The Parable of the Blind Gardener

In a certain village, there was a gardener known for his devotion to his craft. He spent his days tending to his garden, which was his pride and joy. One day, a renowned and charismatic stranger arrived in the village. This stranger spoke with great authority and claimed to have discovered new ways to cultivate the land that would yield greater harvests and more vibrant flowers. His words were smooth and his promises grand.

The gardener, intrigued by the stranger's confident speech, chose to follow his guidance. The stranger instructed him to plant his seeds in a way that went against the long-established practices that had always borne good fruit. “Use these new methods,” the stranger said, “and your garden will surpass all others.”

Despite the advice of the village elder, who reminded the gardener of the wisdom passed down through generations, the gardener was captivated by the stranger’s persuasive charm. He discarded the old methods and followed the stranger’s new, untested approach.

As the seasons changed, the gardener’s garden began to show signs of trouble. The plants withered, the flowers lost their grandeur, and the once-bountiful harvests became sparse. Yet, the gardener, stubborn and proud, refused to believe that the stranger’s teachings could be at fault. He continued to blame the soil, the weather, and even the seeds themselves, but he never questioned the wisdom of the stranger.

One day, the village elder visited the garden and saw its decline. He spoke gently to the gardener, saying, “The methods you follow are not true. I have seen the results of the stranger's teachings elsewhere, and they lead only to barren fields and empty promises. Return to the wisdom that has proven to nurture and sustain the land.”

The gardener, however, was unwilling to admit his mistake. “I cannot change now,” he said. “To do so would be to admit that I have been wrong all this time. I must be patient and wait for the stranger’s methods to show their worth.”

The seasons continued to pass, and while the gardener’s pride kept him from seeing the truth, the garden remained barren and unfruitful.

Blessed are those who heed the wisdom of the tried and true, and who do not let their pride blind them to the truth. For those who follow false teachings, even when the evidence is clear, will find themselves in a land of desolation.

@Bob S @EJ M

 

[Bob S]

The Parable of the Blind Gardener

In a certain village, there was a gardener known for his devotion to his craft. He spent his days tending to his garden, which was his pride and joy. One day, a renowned and charismatic stranger arrived in the village. This stranger spoke with great authority and claimed to have discovered new ways to cultivate the land that would yield greater harvests and more vibrant flowers. His words were smooth and his promises grand.

The gardener, intrigued by the stranger's confident speech, chose to follow his guidance. The stranger instructed him to plant his seeds in a way that went against the long-established practices that had always borne good fruit. “Use these new methods,” the stranger said, “and your garden will surpass all others.”

Despite the advice of the village elder, who reminded the gardener of the wisdom passed down through generations, the gardener was captivated by the stranger’s persuasive charm. He discarded the old methods and followed the stranger’s new, untested approach.

As the seasons changed, the gardener’s garden began to show signs of trouble. The plants withered, the flowers lost their grandeur, and the once-bountiful harvests became sparse. Yet, the gardener, stubborn and proud, refused to believe that the stranger’s teachings could be at fault. He continued to blame the soil, the weather, and even the seeds themselves, but he never questioned the wisdom of the stranger.

One day, the village elder visited the garden and saw its decline. He spoke gently to the gardener, saying, “The methods you follow are not true. I have seen the results of the stranger's teachings elsewhere, and they lead only to barren fields and empty promises. Return to the wisdom that has proven to nurture and sustain the land.”

The gardener, however, was unwilling to admit his mistake. “I cannot change now,” he said. “To do so would be to admit that I have been wrong all this time. I must be patient and wait for the stranger’s methods to show their worth.”

The seasons continued to pass, and while the gardener’s pride kept him from seeing the truth, the garden remained barren and unfruitful.

Blessed are those who heed the wisdom of the tried and true, and who do not let their pride blind them to the truth. For those who follow false teachings, even when the evidence is clear, will find themselves in a land of desolation.

@Bob S @EJ M

Nice story. People were getting along fine until the stranger came into town. Just to put the story in its proper perspective I need to make a few changes. Actually, the stranger was a sheep stealer. He came and rented a large auditorium and held evangelism meetings that had the town in an uproar. According to the sheep stealer, the townspeople would be going to Hell because they were celebrating their Christian beliefs on the wrong day. The sheep stealer preached that the townspeople were not keeping the 10 commandments. The people were not without knowledge of all the New Testament writings on the subject and almost every person who went to the meetings rejected the false teachings. They knew the sheep stealer was trying to teach things that were not true according to the new and better covenant. Thank the Lord they were grounded in the real truth.

 

[EJ M]

Gross misrepresentation , obviously you are not caring to understand , but that’s ok all gets sorted out soon enough.

Hello
I am curious why you won’t answer my questions?
Do you flip a light switch, start a car and buy/use utilities on the Sabbath?