Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

[Bob S]

Free, I have enjoyed your posts and would even like to use one of them in Sunday school. As I wrote I don't care to get into this kind of controversy and I do not apologize for writing what I wrote or write. I prefer not to take sides. I will write what I truly believe to be the truth. Lets not allow our feelings get into the way of presenting God's Word to those who have wandered away from the Gospel or have never heard it. It may be best not to answer each others posts or make accusations that may not be true.

Since my posts seem to you to be critical of you or your posts and do little to enhance the spreading of the Gospel I will remove them. How about you?

 

[FreeAtLast]

Free, I have enjoyed your posts and would even like to use one of them in Sunday school. As I wrote I don't care to get into this kind of controversy and I do not apologize for writing what I wrote or write. I prefer not to take sides. I will write what I truly believe to be the truth. Lets not allow our feelings get into the way of presenting God's Word to those who have wandered away from the Gospel or have never heard it. It may be best not to answer each others posts or make accusations that may not be true.

Since my posts seem to you to be critical of you or your posts and do little to enhance the spreading of the Gospel I will remove them. How about you?

Since my posts were only to clarify your misunderstanding and assumptions of what I wrote, then sure, remove yours and mine will be moot and I'll remove them. Going forward, if you wish to ignore my posts, you can certainly use the IGNORE option. I'm not inclined to do that, but that might be an option for you.

 

[Bob S]

Since my posts were only to clarify your misunderstanding and assumptions of what I wrote, then sure, remove yours and mine will be moot and I'll remove them. Going forward, if you wish to ignore my posts, you can certainly use the IGNORE option. I'm not inclined to do that, but that might be an option for you.

Thanks

 

[bekkilyn]

Adventists do believe one cannot be saved if they do not "keep" the Sabbath. Ellen White wrote volumes and they believe all she wrote was inspired, really equal to scripture. The following taken from various books makes my point:

Yes, I have many dear Adventist friends and often go their services and bible studies with them, so I have learned a lot concerning their doctrines. Adventists are now preaching salvation by grace through faith alone as most traditional Christian denominations do, and yet they still uphold that one must observe Saturday Sabbath to avoid the mark of the beast, so it's a huge contradiction that they are probably going to have to resolve at some point. Ellen White being the final arbiter of scripture is likely a big part of what is holding them back in this regard. That's not to say that every SDA individual fully goes along with this doctrine though, and of course there are many good Christians within the denomination, which I do recognize even as I strongly disagree with some of the doctrine.

There are a some similarities between some Methodist and SDA doctrine too, likely because Ellen White used to be a Methodist, so it has been interesting to compare and contrast when certain topics come up.

I am not as familiar though with how other non-SDA denominations view observing the Sabbath though, so your post sparked my curiosity on that point.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I am not as familiar though with how other non-SDA denominations view observing the Sabbath though, so your post sparked my curiosity on that point.

Shalom Rebecca,
I've been missing your wonderful posts. Good to see you posting.

I think what you said about the SDAs and the fact that there are some good Christians within the denomination that do not go along with anti-Biblical doctrine, I find that true in almost every denomination I've been honored to worship alongside. I am not any denomination

There is a also wide diversity within some denominations as to their views on the 7th day Sabbath observance and is also dependent upon whether their denom has a ruling board of views that applies to all, or if some churches within are autonomous.

For example, some Messianic Jewish synagogues preach adherence to the Law of Moses, especially the Sabbath, some say it is required, I've never heard it is for salvation, although it is implied.

OTOH, some Messianic Jewish synagogues, rightly preach that the Sabbath was created by G-d (Genesis 2) BEFORE the Law and is a wonderful thing to observe, rest and communion with G-d set apart, but it is neither required, nor salvific.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, I have many dear Adventist friends and often go their services and bible studies with them, so I have learned a lot concerning their doctrines. Adventists are now preaching salvation by grace through faith alone as most traditional Christian denominations do, and yet they still uphold that one must observe Saturday Sabbath to avoid the mark of the beast, so it's a huge contradiction that they are probably going to have to resolve at some point. Ellen White being the final arbiter of scripture is likely a big part of what is holding them back in this regard. That's not to say that every SDA individual fully goes along with this doctrine though, and of course there are many good Christians within the denomination, which I do recognize even as I strongly disagree with some of the doctrine.

There are a some similarities between some Methodist and SDA doctrine too, likely because Ellen White used to be a Methodist, so it has been interesting to compare and contrast when certain topics come up.

I am not as familiar though with how other non-SDA denominations view observing the Sabbath though, so your post sparked my curiosity on that point.

Some of my best and loyal friends are SDA. Some are changing and it is interesting how it will all turn out. The hierarchy has been very non supportive of churches that do not use the "writings" and are faith based. Of course the hierarchy still accepts the tithe from the wayward churches.

It is hard to pin other Sabbath believing groups down on whether they believe Sabbath is salvational.

 

[Dave-W]

It is hard to pin other Sabbath believing groups down on whether they believe Sabbath is salvational.

I have a problem with anyone who tries to tie down too narrowly what is salvic and what is not. That is nothing other than legalism.

To me the whole issue is one of heart obedience. If we love HIM we will want to obey Him.

 

[Bob S]

I have a problem with anyone who tries to tie down too narrowly what is salvic and what is not. That is nothing other than legalism.

To me the whole issue is one of heart obedience. If we love HIM we will want to obey Him.

And just what is your problem?If salvation comes from observance of feast days shouldn't most of Christianity know it?

 

[Dave-W]

And just what is your problem?If salvation comes from observance of feast days shouldn't most of Christianity know it?

Where is the heart in all of that?

There are many things associated with salvation in the NT:

Calling on the name of the Lord
Faith
Repentance
Confessing Jesus as Lord.
baptism.
Being discipled

But IMO if there is not a heart of love for God and His ways, all of that is useless.

(and no, I know of no NT scripture that ties salvation and the moedim - appointed times.

 

[BobRyan]

Shalom y'all,
I've been discussing with an SDA who states that Sunday worship of G-d is man-made tradition,

Many on both sides of the issue will argue this was a church tradition and that there is no actual Bible command "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" or a Bible text saying "week day 1 is our Christian Sabbath" or a text that says "now week keep week day 1 holy as the Lord's day".

Of course, you may find such a text and could have the distinction of being the first to post it. In which case - congrats!

 

[BobRyan]

, I'll share why I believe Sunday worship, or Monday worship or Tuesday worship of G-d is not only fine, but encouraged and sanctioned by G-d's Word, not the opinions of man.
Sunday worship of G-d is NOT breaking His commands, nor is it a sin in any way shape or form.

All Christian worship God every day. That is a given.

But that does not mean that we refuse to engage in secular activity all week long.

It is only on the Bible Sabbath that we rest "according to the commandment" and attend worship services specifically honoring the Bible Sabbath.

I guess you already knew that ... but just in case someone else did not.

 

[bekkilyn]

Many on both sides of the issue will argue this was a church tradition and that there is no actual Bible command "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" or a Bible text saying "week day 1 is our Christian Sabbath" or a text that says "now week keep week day 1 holy as the Lord's day".

Of course, you may find such a text and could have the distinction of being the first to post it. In which case - congrats!

However, week-day-1 *is* the day of the Lord's resurrection, which is what many Christians are actually celebrating, rather than as a Sabbath. The claim that "Sunday worshipers" are observing the *Sabbath* on Sunday instead of Saturday is largely false. It would be more accurate to claim that many Christians do not observe the Sabbath at all, regardless of day of the week.

 

[BobRyan]

However, week-day-1 *is* the day of the Lord's resurrection, which is what many Christians are actually celebrating, rather than as a Sabbath.

Agreed.

Those who say that they are ignoring the Bible Sabbath and are choosing instead to make up an extra-biblical tradition for week-day-1 instead of obeying one of God's Ten Commandments - are certainly making a factual statement. I don't agree that they make the right choice in that case -- but I do agree that they have free will and can choose such a course if they wish.

The claim that "Sunday worshipers" are observing the *Sabbath* on Sunday instead of Saturday is largely false. It would be more accurate to claim that many Christians do not observe the Sabbath at all, regardless of day of the week.

Agreed. But if you take a look at the list in my signature line - they all argue for a "bent Sabbath" one that points to week-day-1. And they argue the unbent version is for Jews.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Many on both sides of the issue will argue this was a church tradition and that there is no actual Bible command "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" or a Bible text saying "week day 1 is our Christian Sabbath" or a text that says "now week keep week day 1 holy as the Lord's day".

Of course, you may find such a text and could have the distinction of being the first to post it. In which case - congrats!

Oh the unnecessary snark!!

The first day of the week, the L-rd's Day, is the day that the first church met to commemorate Yeshua's resurrection. There was no prior tradition to do so, but it serves as an example and what is a good thing to do.

There is no command in the NEW Covenant to "keep" the Old Covenant Law of Moses to observe the 7th day Sabbath on Fri-Saturday. In the New Covenant, all days are acceptable for worship.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Where is the heart in all of that?

There are many things associated with salvation in the NT:

Calling on the name of the Lord
Faith
Repentance
Confessing Jesus as Lord.

baptism.

Baptism does not impart salvation.

Being discipled

being discipled does not impart salvation

 

[Dave-W]

Baptism does not impart salvation.
being discipled does not impart salvation

Maybe. In general I agree.

But they are often listed WITH salvation, which is why they made the list.

 

[Dave-W]

The first day of the week, the L-rd's Day, i

The "L-rd's day" (aka Day of the Lord) is the day of judgement and destruction. It has nothing to do with any specific week day.

 

[FreeAtLast]

The "L-rd's day" (aka Day of the Lord) is the day of judgement and destruction. It has nothing to do with any specific week day.

Not true.

Revelation 1:10
10 I was in the Spirit on the L-rd’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

 

[FreeAtLast]

All Christian worship God every day. That is a given.

But that does not mean that we refuse to engage in secular activity all week long.

It is only on the Bible Sabbath that we rest "according to the commandment" and attend worship services specifically honoring the Bible Sabbath.

I guess you already knew that ... but just in case someone else did not.

What I know, from Scripture, is that it is no longer required to cease working on the Sabbath under the New Covenant of Yeshua. If one wishes to do so, that is a personal choice, but it is no longer a law applicable to born again Believers in Yeshua as G-d and saved by faith in Him and by His grace.

 

[Dave-W]

Not true.

Revelation 1:10
10 I was in the Spirit on the L-rd’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

And where is that defined as any day of the week?

What follows? Prophecies and visions of judgement and destruction.