Sabbath And First Day

[Meowzltov]

We must take your word for it then.

No, you take the word of the original source document, Ignatius epistle to the Smyrneans, as do all Christian historians.

 

[Meowzltov]

It's in the book of Daniel and Revelation. And the early church fathers all predicted the same.

It's not in the Book of Daniel nor in Revelation. Neither one of them mentions "the Catholic Church." You are interpreting it that way. I don't trust your interpretation. I think instead that the harlot is the Roman Empire (as Rome sits on seven hills) and the beast was Nero (as Ceasar Nero adds to 666). The early church fathers were a PART of the Catholic Church.

 

[Meowzltov]

So what? EO churches and Old Catholics and other churches incorporate the term into their legal titles, too, just as still more have done with Apostolic and Holy. Yet, you probably think that your church is part of the One, Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic Church no less these.

I'm not worried about the EO and OO at this point in the thread. My point stands.

 

[Albion]

I'm not worried about the EO and OO at this point in the thread. My point stands.

It stands as your own opinion, yes. It is undeniable that no denomination becomes the one and only corporate example of any virtue, characteristic, or quality SIMPLY BECAUSE THE CHURCH CHOOSES TO USE A WORD AS PART OF ITS NAME.

 

[Meowzltov]

It stands as your own opinion, yes. It is undeniable that no denomination becomes the one and only corporate example of any virtue, characteristic, or quality SIMPLY BECAUSE THE CHURCH CHOOSES TO USE A WORD AS PART OF ITS NAME.

You know very well that the relationship of the EO ad OO to the Catholic Church is very different than the Protestant groups. the EO, OO, and CC grew up as the same church, the ONE Church that Christ established, before we split apart. We each preserve apostolic succession. Protestants on the other hand, began at the Reformation.

 

[Albion]

You know very well that the relationship of the EO ad OO to the Catholic Church is very different than the Protestant groups.

Which Protestant "groups?"

EO, OO, and CC grew up as the same church, the ONE Church that Christ established, before we split apart. We each preserve apostolic succession. Protestants on the other hand, began at the Reformation.

Most Protestant churches "grew up as the same church" too, and they share certain doctrinal similarities, just as the these other churches do among themselves.

 

[Meowzltov]

Which Protestant "groups?"

All of them.

Most Protestant churches "grew up as the same church" too, and they share certain doctrinal similarities, just as the these other churches do among themselves.

Nah. Unlike the EO, Catholic, and OO, who all have apostolic succession and are true churches, the Reform communities deliberately broke with apostolic succession. They literally threw it away. Their "churches" were literally a new thing, not a continuance of the old.

The Anglicans were an interesting case. They tried to keep Apostolic Succession--they had the best of intentions. But they changed the rite. It was ruled that this change invalidated the ordination process. Then they complicated matters further by ordaining women priests and even bishops. Whatever their intentions were, their churches are lost to us now.

This does not reflect on those who attend these ecclesial communities. Anyone baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and HS is a Christian.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

The Bible is the authority for what day is the actual Holy day....Genesis 2 God created the seventh day of the week, He rested, blessed the day and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes)....No other day was given this treatment...NONE...the seventh day of the week in today's terminology is saturday....there is NO Biblical authority for any other day. The first day of the week (sunday) is strictly a tradition of man, and not from the word of God.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

The Bible is the authority for what day is the actual Holy day....Genesis 2 God created the seventh day of the week, He rested, blessed the day and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes)....No other day was given this treatment...NONE...the seventh day of the week in today's terminology is saturday....there is NO Biblical authority for any other day. The first day of the week (sunday) is strictly a tradition of man, and not from the word of God.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

The Church has the authority to change the solemnity from the Sabbath to the Lord's Day. All Christians should be assembling on the Lord's day.

On a completely different subject, we know that all the thousands of Jewish Christians in Jerusalem were "zealous for Torah." Acts 21:20 They continued to meet at the Temple, and observe Jewish law. That would mean they continued to keep Shabbat. Today many Jewish believers in Yeshua also keep Shabbat.

As Jewish Catholic, I keep the Sabbath from Friday sundown until Saturday sundown, and then I attend Mass on the Lord's day. Easy breezy.

The Lord's day? Are you referring to the first day of the week (sunday)?....that is not the Lord's day....Jesus said in Mark 2 27 He is Lord of the Sabbath day. Roman church and now protestant churches keep referring to the 1st day of the week as the Lord's day, with no Biblical authority...they are wrong.

 

[prodromos]

The Bible is the authority for what day is the actual Holy day....Genesis 2 God created the seventh day of the week, He rested, blessed the day and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes)

God is spirit, He does not tire and need rest, so it is understood that this was to prefigure God's rest on the tomb on the Sabbath after He was crucified. The Sabbath rest is a prophecy of the incarnation, where God would become man.

No other day was given this treatment...NONE...the seventh day of the week in today's terminology is saturday....there is NO Biblical authority for any other day. The first day of the week (sunday) is strictly a tradition of man, and not from the word of God.

The Lord’s day is not the 1st day of the week, it is actually the 8th day which is also prefigured many times in the Old Testament. It is the new day which the Lord has made, it is an eternal day without dusk, which breaks out of the endless cycle of seven days. It is the day God blessed by ending His rest with His glorious resurrection. The Church, Christ's body, has long understood this fulfillment of the Old Testament shadows which is why they so honour Κυριακή as the primary day of worship. They did so despite it continuing as a normal working day for centuries, gathering as the sun set on the Sabbath and continuing late into the night, sometimes continuing until dawn.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Okay follow the doctrines of man if you must...but i prefer to follow God and His holy Bible, and will continue to do so...

 

[prodromos]

Okay follow the doctrines of man if you must...but i prefer to follow God and His holy Bible, and will continue to do so...

I follow doctrines of the God-man, Jesus Christ, which were passed down from the Apostles through the Church, which is the body of Christ. I do not follow my own feeble and error prone interpretations of Scripture.

 

[Meowzltov]

The Lord's day? Are you referring to the first day of the week (sunday)?....that is not the Lord's day....Jesus said in Mark 2 27 He is Lord of the Sabbath day. Roman church and now protestant churches keep referring to the 1st day of the week as the Lord's day, with no Biblical authority...they are wrong.

We know that the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath because of Ignatius' letter to the Magesians (written sometime between 80 and 110 AD) "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day" Reference to the Lord's Day goes all the way back to the Didache, written even before the book of Revelation, which mentions the Lord's day in Chapter 1.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

We know that the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath because of Ignatius' letter to the Magesians (written sometime between 80 and 110 AD) "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day" Reference to the Lord's Day goes all the way back to the Didache, written even before the book of Revelation, which mentions the Lord's day in Chapter 1.

Revelation 1.10 is not referring to the first day of the week (sunday)...your letters of catholic origin mean nothing, they are distortions, and merely the traditions of man...stick to the Bible....Revelation 1.10 is referring to the great day of God when He pours out His wrath on planet earth 1st Thess 5.2....
Maybe try following the Bible instead of the teachings of pagan Rome, which are just that, pagan in nature and of no Biblical significance.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

I follow doctrines of the God-man, Jesus Christ, which were passed down from the Apostles through the Church, which is the body of Christ. I do not follow my own feeble and error prone interpretations of Scripture.

If they are not Biblical then they are the traditions of man, and didd not come through the apostles...the Apostles would have nothing to do with traditions of man...try reading the writings of Paul, Peter, James and John...it should be evident to you and is not that difficult to understand, even your "own feeble and error prone interpretations of Scripture" should be able to understand them, and the words of Jesus in the Bible.

 

[Meowzltov]

Revelation 1.10 is not referring to the first day of the week (sunday)...your letters of catholic origin mean nothing, they are distortions, and merely the traditions of man...stick to the Bible....Revelation 1.10 is referring to the great day of God when He pours out His wrath on planet earth 1st Thess 5.2....
Maybe try following the Bible instead of the teachings of pagan Rome, which are just that, pagan in nature and of no Biblical significance.

Impossible. The Didache, written during the same time period as Revelation, says that Christians were meeting regularly on the Lord's Day for the breaking of bread.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

You are wrong..Revelation does not say anything about the first day of the week being "holy' or "sanctified"....it has been the seventh day of the week since creation (saturday) Genesis 2...
Like all good catholics you seem to want to follow the traditions of the pagan based Roman religious system, instead of the commandments of God...that's your choice...I chose to follow the word of God in the Bible, and not the man made traditions of any religious system or denomination.

 

[Meowzltov]

You are wrong..Revelation does not say anything about the first day of the week being "holy' or "sanctified"....it has been the seventh day of the week since creation (saturday) Genesis 2...
Like all good catholics you seem to want to follow the traditions of the pagan based Roman religious system, instead of the commandments of God...that's your choice...I chose to follow the word of God in the Bible, and not the man made traditions of any religious system or denomination.

Revelations is the ONLY place in Scriptures that mentions "the Lord's Day" specifically. We know that it is not Sabbath because the writings of Ignatius to the Magnesians, written between 80-110 AD tell us so. Do you think the "Roman pagan based system" existed by 80 AD, advocated by a man instructed directly by an apostle (he was a student of John), and approved to teach the gospel by another apostle (he was ordained by Peter)?

 

[1watchman]

Yes, we all can have any kind of religion we like, but we must bow to the fullness of the Word, for that is how we will be judged. Look up always!

Well, this site has long since fallen into a debate on various religious views which will profit nothing for anyone. Let us leave it alone and go our separate ways. The paper I posted in the beginning here is very sound I am sure, and since that is the view of many Bible-only gatherings in the world, I don't expect various religious sects will agree with it. Just study the New Testament to see what is given for the Church in this age. Look up always!