Russians help Parler promote violence in America.

[tall73]

Meanwhile:

Facebook Gives FBI Private Messages Of Users Discussing Capitol Hill Riot

Despite attempts to play down the use of Facebook amongst Capitol Hill rioters, the social media giant is furnishing the feds with data on users who took part in the siege, including their private messages, after calls from lawmakers to do so.

 

[tall73]

Odd that the "one of which happens to be in another country" doesn't happen to be in Germany, or Canad, or Japan, or Australia, don't you think?

Why does it always seem to circle around back to Russia?

DDoS-Guard To Forfeit Internet Space Occupied by Parler — Krebs on Security

The majority of DDoS-Guard’s employees are based in Russia, but the company is actually incorporated in two other places: As “Cognitive Cloud LLP” in Scotland, and as DDoS-Guard Corp. based in Belize.

 

[Michael]

It shouldn't. At least not if you are one of those people guilible enough to have believed this phony story that was meant to ruin Parler.

Ok, I'll bite. What's your evidence that it's a "phony story"?

Apparently, the previous anti-free speech moves made against Parler by the liberal social media outlets didn't quite finish Parler off.

I think you missed the whole point of my post I'm afraid. I don't ultimately even care if Parler lives or dies. They're just another internet service that I *don't even use*. I just find it disgusting that Russians would continue to help promote conspiracy theory oriented websites that openly and freely advocate violence in the US.

 

[tall73]

I think you missed the whole point of my post I'm afraid. I don't ultimately even care if Parler lives or dies. They're just another internet service that I *don't even use*. I just find it disgusting that Russians would continue to help promote conspiracy theory oriented websites that openly and freely advocate violence in the US.

It is a company that operates in multiple countries, and you have not linked this to any Russian government action.

 

[Michael]

It is a company that operates in multiple countries, and you have not linked this to any Russian government action.

At this point I don't have any evidence that the Russian government is even involved, just Russian citizens.

 

[tall73]

At this point I don't have any evidence that the Russian government is even involved, just Russian citizens.

Do you have evidence that the Russian citizens intended to destabilize America through providing security services for a website?

 

[Pommer]

Sad when Russia cares more about our 1st amendment than our own country does. :/

Our Government is the cause of Parler’s woes?

 

[Michael]

Do you have evidence that the Russian citizens intended to destabilize America through providing security services for a website?

Can you explain to me what possible good is going to come from Russian nationals hosting Parler or any website promoting conspiracy theories and violence in the US? Whatever their motive might be, it's not helping us unite as a nation or as a planet.

 

[tall73]

Can you explain to me what possible good is going to come from Russian nationals hosting Parler or any website promoting conspiracy theories and violence in the US? Whatever their motive might be, it's not helping us unite as a nation or as a planet.

a. The article indicated they were not hosting it. They were providing security services. As I noted citing other articles even that may be in doubt now.

b. What good is done by any company helping web sites run? There were many stop the steal groups on Facebook as well. And Facebook was used to plot DC Riot activity. Are you suggesting removal of all social media?

 

[Michael]

a. The article indicated they were not hosting it. They were providing security services. As I noted citing other articles even that may be in doubt now.

b. What good is done by any company helping web sites run? There were many stop the steal groups on Facebook as well. And Facebook was used to plot DC Riot activity. Are you suggesting removal of all social media?

Most companies at least *try* to weed out violent and illegal content from their websites, albeit slowly, after the fact and imperfectly, but Parler was actively promoting violence and *refusing* to remove flagged content when it was pointed out to them.

I'm not advocating anything, I'm just *highly* suspicious when Russians (or Chinese or Iranians) get involved in promoting violence in the US, and promoting conspiracy theories. RT news has also been highly supportive of conspiracy theory nonsense over the last few years. Is that really innocent behavior on their part? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Michael]

So why do I worry about Russian involvement?

Why the Russian hack is so significant, and why it's close to a worst-case scenario

Russia Navalny: Poisoned opposition leader held after flying home

That's why.

 

[tall73]

Most companies at least *try* to weed out violent and illegal content from their websites, albeit slowly, after the fact and imperfectly, but Parler was actively promoting violence and *refusing* to remove flagged content when it was pointed out to them.

I am not sure if you read all the posts in this thread, but that is not correct. I will re-post some of the info.

The court filing in the Parler vs. Amazon Web Services case makes the following claims in relation to this:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664.21.0_2.pdf

And AWS has confirmed that none of the arrested participants in that unconscionable attack (who had been publicly identified as of the filing of this action) even had a Parler account, much less used it to “incite, organize or coordinate” the attack.

After Twitter banned President Trump on January 8, the increased new users and activity caused Parler to go down for seven hours, resulting in a backlog of 26,000 instances of content that potentially encouraged violence. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 13; Matze Dec., ¶ 9. However, over the next two days,Parler was able to systematically remove almost all of this content, which progress was reported to AWS, and within 48 hours by the end of Sunday—when AWS shut Parler down—Parler had removed all but some 1,000 problematic posts. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 14.Parler also identified additional steps it was taking to quickly identify and remove problematic content. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 15. Indeed, AWS had known since mid-December that Parler would be adopting in 2021 an Artificial Intelligence (“AI”) system that would pre-screen inappropriate content, which had shown promising initial results, and there was discussion of Parler adopting AWS’s own AI system.

The woman killed by law enforcement when she forced her way into the Capitol Building, Ashli Babbitt, did have a Parler account, but it had not been used since November. Id. She also had a Twitter account that was in use the day of the riot, January 6, 2020. Ex. D. Even the government claims that the attack was coordinated in part by Twitter.1 And claims reportedly showing Parler users being involved in the Capitol Riot because the metadata on videos uploaded to Parler reveal the location where they were recorded misunderstandthe evidence: Videos recorded by others, shared, and then uploaded by a separate Parler user will still show the original video location, even if the Parler user wasn’t there and didn’t record the video. MatzeDec., ¶ 4.

They were removing illegal content. They had an influx of such posts when Trump was banned on Twitter. The new memberes surging in took out service for a bit. Then they had to clean up the posts. They cleaned up 25 of the 26k such posts in two days, which is rather fast. They were going to finish the others but were removed.

He also indicates they were employing some AI, and in were discussing with Amazon whether to use Amazon's own AI system.

So they were not refusing to remove content.

Nor were threats of violence allowed in their terms of service. From back in June:

Parler’s new policy: No poop, no inappropriate content, no murder

Another rule communicated via Mr. Matze is, “You cannot threaten to kill anyone in the comment section. Sorry, never ever going to be okay.”

“If ever in doubt, ask yourself if you would say it on the streets of New York or national television,” Mr. Matze added.

 

[tall73]

So why do I worry about Russian involvement?

Why the Russian hack is so significant, and why it's close to a worst-case scenario

Around the world, at least hundreds, but more likely thousands or tens of thousands of organizations — including companies, schools, think tanks and, notably, every major government agency — have been working frantically to see whether they've been affected by the suspected Russian hacking campaign and, if so, how much access the hackers had.

The article notes that Russian government entities are suspected to be responsible for the Solar Winds hack. The article references the SVR agency in particular.

a. You said you were not aware of any government involvement here. So how is that an issue?

b. If the Russian government had access to thousands of companies, various government entities, data etc. even in highly secure environments, then they hardly need someone to hire a company with offices in Russian and Scottland to get data.

 

[tall73]

Russia Navalny: Poisoned opposition leader held after flying home

How does that tie to Parler?

 

[tall73]

I'm not advocating anything, I'm just *highly* suspicious when Russians (or Chinese or Iranians) get involved in promoting violence in the US, and promoting conspiracy theories. RT news has also been highly supportive of conspiracy theory nonsense over the last few years. Is that really innocent behavior on their part? I seriously doubt it.

RT has Russia right in the name. They are hardly hiding the ball. Are you in favor of barring foreign news?

 

[Michael]

I am not sure if you read all the posts in this thread, but that is not correct. I will re-post some of the info.

The court filing in the Parler vs. Amazon Web Services case makes the following claims in relation to this:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664/gov.uscourts.wawd.294664.21.0_2.pdf

And AWS has confirmed that none of the arrested participants in that unconscionable attack (who had been publicly identified as of the filing of this action) even had a Parler account, much less used it to “incite, organize or coordinate” the attack.

After Twitter banned President Trump on January 8, the increased new users and activity caused Parler to go down for seven hours, resulting in a backlog of 26,000 instances of content that potentially encouraged violence. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 13; Matze Dec., ¶ 9. However, over the next two days,Parler was able to systematically remove almost all of this content, which progress was reported to AWS, and within 48 hours by the end of Sunday—when AWS shut Parler down—Parler had removed all but some 1,000 problematic posts. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 14.Parler also identified additional steps it was taking to quickly identify and remove problematic content. Peikoff Dec., ¶ 15. Indeed, AWS had known since mid-December that Parler would be adopting in 2021 an Artificial Intelligence (“AI”) system that would pre-screen inappropriate content, which had shown promising initial results, and there was discussion of Parler adopting AWS’s own AI system.

The woman killed by law enforcement when she forced her way into the Capitol Building, Ashli Babbitt, did have a Parler account, but it had not been used since November. Id. She also had a Twitter account that was in use the day of the riot, January 6, 2020. Ex. D. Even the government claims that the attack was coordinated in part by Twitter.1 And claims reportedly showing Parler users being involved in the Capitol Riot because the metadata on videos uploaded to Parler reveal the location where they were recorded misunderstandthe evidence: Videos recorded by others, shared, and then uploaded by a separate Parler user will still show the original video location, even if the Parler user wasn’t there and didn’t record the video. MatzeDec., ¶ 4.

They were removing illegal content. They had an influx of such posts when Trump was banned on Twitter. The new memberes surging in took out service for a bit. Then they had to clean up the posts. They cleaned up 25 of the 26k such posts in two days, which is rather fast. They were going to finish the others but were removed.

He also indicates they were employing some AI, and in were discussing with Amazon whether to use Amazon's own AI system.

So they were not refusing to remove content.

Nor were threats of violence allowed in their terms of service. From back in June:

Parler’s new policy: No poop, no inappropriate content, no murder

Another rule communicated via Mr. Matze is, “You cannot threaten to kill anyone in the comment section. Sorry, never ever going to be okay.”

“If ever in doubt, ask yourself if you would say it on the streets of New York or national television,” Mr. Matze added.

You're correct that I haven't yet read through the whole thread yet and I will do that. I didn't suggest that Parler was the primary communication mechanism of the rioters. From what I've read from arrest reports, that probably mostly done on/through Facebook and Twitter since that is where a lot of them incriminated themselves during the riots.

I'd have to say however that based on how many of the various companies dumped Parler (as opposed to Gab, etc) that Parler's lack of AI and effective moderation was of great concern to *many* companies, not just Amazon.

As I said (perhaps in other threads), I've never used Parler (or Twitter for that matter), and I have no real animosity toward Parler specifically, but I can't say I feel a lot of sympathy for them either. Assuming they implement an effective set of moderating tools, I'm sure they'll eventually get themselves back online and earn the trust of companies like Apple and Amazon.

 

[Michael]

RT has Russia right in the name. They are hardly hiding the ball. Are you in favor of barring foreign news?

No, certainly not. In fact I very much miss watching the Chinese Network TV since switching from Dish to Hulu. I find RT however to be filled with a lot of Russian propaganda, and therefore I don't enjoy watching it as much as Chinese news. I try to surf a lot of foreign news sites actually. It provides me with a more rounded view of global events.

 

[Michael]

How does that tie to Parler?

AFAIK it doesn't, but it does tie to Russia which is what makes me uncomfortable with Russian companies and their motives.

 

[tall73]

No, certainly not. In fact I very much miss watching the Chinese Network TV since switching from Dish to Hulu. I find RT however to be filled with a lot of Russian propaganda, and therefore I don't enjoy watching it as much as Chinese news. I try to surf a lot of foreign news sites actually. It provides me with a more rounded view of global events.

I enjoy foreign news sources as well. As to Russian propaganda I am sure they have some. They also host a number of Americans with progressive views. Their viewpoints may dovetail with Russian ends. But it provides an outlet that allows more free speaking than some of the US based news when it comes to anti-establishment, anti-war news. Obviously you should fact check anything you hear there. But that applies anywhere.

 

[tall73]

You're correct that I haven't yet read through the whole thread yet and I will do that. I didn't suggest that Parler was the primary communication mechanism of the rioters. From what I've read from arrest reports, that probably mostly done on/through Facebook and Twitter since that is where a lot of them incriminated themselves during the riots.

I'd have to say however that based on how many of the various companies dumped Parler (as opposed to Gab, etc) that Parler's lack of AI and effective moderation was of great concern to *many* companies, not just Amazon.

As I said (perhaps in other threads), I've never used Parler (or Twitter for that matter), and I have no real animosity toward Parler specifically, but I can't say I feel a lot of sympathy for them either. Assuming they implement an effective set of moderating tools, I'm sure they'll eventually get themselves back online and earn the trust of companies like Apple and Amazon.

I don't use Parler, and probably won't. As for sympathy, I do feel they were smeared before the facts were in. However, Amazon has no obligation to host them, and from the initial ruling on the lawsuit Parler has not as of yet shown any likelihood of prevailing on the merits.

The removal was as much about political pressure as any fact pattern that was particularly different than other platforms. And yes, Google has previously removed such platforms as GAB that also has a more lax approach to moderating, but still does not allow illegal speech when it is known.

They don't have to use any of the big players, and they don't have to implement moderation tools they don't want to. Section 230 shields them from most liability, with exceptions for child exploitation material, copyright, etc.

However, the other platforms all wind up hosting calls for violence as well, and do not always remove it.