Russians help Parler promote violence in America.

[Michael]

Parler moves to hosting service owned by Russians after ban

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

[public hermit]

Wow. How did this happen? When I was coming up the Russians were our mortal enemy. Now, so many on the right see them as allies, despite their protestations against socialism. Putin, let's face it, is ex-KGB and longs for the USSR, the old days. How does that make sense?

 

[Michael]

It only makes sense if you're Russian and you were brought up to believe that the US was your mortal enemy. I don't how it makes sense to anyone else. I can understand why the Russians would want to help to foment violence in the US, but I don't see how it helps the fringe right to justify their cause.

 

[Tigger45]

The ‘big fish’ in these circumstances are only really concerned with their own interests and not that of the nation’s. Their groupies are gullible, choosing to swallow the lies and regurgitating the scripted narrative.

 

[durangodawood]

Russia knows how to play the game of use an open society against itself.

Lots of Americans are willing to play along.

 

[mala]

Wow. How did this happen? When I was coming up the Russians were our mortal enemy. Now, so many on the right see them as allies, despite their protestations against socialism. Putin, let's face it, is ex-KGB and longs for the USSR, the old days. How does that make sense?

There are a few reason. One is that Russia is led by a proverbial strong man, something the right wing seems to adore. Basically it's a thing that so called alphas like but honestly this is what happens when you are a mentally and/or socially maladjusted person. Another is that Russia is also seen as the last white bastion on earth and not having any of this "multicultural malarkey".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The kind of content that was on Parler was disgusting in many cases, but I don't see how a platform moving to a Russian service equates to "Russians helping to promote violence"

I think it would serve people well to understand the difference between "promotion" and "negligent inaction"...while neither is a good thing with regards to certain kinds of content, they're definitely not the same thing.

If "Steve" told someone 'hey, you should go beat that guy up!', and they go over and start doing it, and "Mike" sees it happening, but just ignores it and goes on about his business... It'd be fair to say it was a crummy thing on the part of Mike not to get involved and help, but it certainly wouldn't be fair to claim that Mike was the same as Steve.

 

[topher694]

Parler moves to hosting service owned by Russians after ban

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Why doesn't the staggering hypocrisy of this surprise me?

 

[High Fidelity]

Pretty much anything intended for illegal use is hosted in Russia because there are plenty of services providers that do not keep logs.

This is not to be seen as an endorsement by the Russians, just a service many Russian hosts offer that is par for the course given Russian attitudes towards many things.

That said, that information hosted will almost certainly be gathered instantly and continuously by the Russian government.

 

[public hermit]

This is not to be seen as an endorsement by the Russians, just a service many Russian hosts offer that is par for the course given Russian attitudes towards many things.

You don't think the Russians stand to benefit from promoting the rhetoric that Parler has (historically) nurtured? Isn't it an endorsement?

 

[Rene Loup]

Parler, the social network popular with the alt-right and conspiracy theorists, reappeared with the help of a Russian-owned web security service as the website hunts for a way around bans that took it offline earlier this month.

It never came to my mind that such a social media website even exists. Based on this description, it sounds like an incredibly unpleasant website...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You don't think the Russians stand to benefit from promoting the rhetoric that Parler has (historically) nurtured? Isn't it an endorsement?

I think it should be more concerning that platforms even feel the need to move "underground" simply for being "free speech".

Obviously there was a far-right leaning to Parler, and some disgusting stuff on it...some of which needed to be addressed...

But to completely take down a platform, with the justification being "we found 98 examples" sounds more like a political hitjob more than it does about genuine concerns about safety.

Think if we looked hard enough, we could find 98 examples on Twitter? Of course.

Here's one that's still up after months:
https://twitter.com/slate/status/1268415955937513473

Do you think the same statement from a right-wing publication using those exact words would last longer than a day on Twitter?

 

[public hermit]

Do you think the same statement from a right-wing publication using those exact words would last longer than a day on Twitter?

You make some points. Perhaps, Parler was too large to have moderators instead of an algorithm? It's all above my head so I'm open to a better understanding.

But, the Russian gov't (which surely has its hands in all legitimate "business") is trustworthy with a space already given to propaganda? I'm incredulous.

It's not a complicated game the Russians are playing. They find the individuals who fit the profile, bum rush them with false information, the imbeciles believe it, and try to take over the democratic process. Sooner or later....all you need is their Parler profile.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You make some points. Perhaps, Parler was too large to have moderators instead of an algorithm? It's all above my head so I'm open to a better understanding.

But, the Russian gov't (which surely has its hands in all legitimate "business") is trustworthy with a space already given to propaganda? I'm incredulous.

It's not a complicated game the Russians are playing. They find the individuals who fit the profile, bum rush them with false information, the imbeciles believe it, and try to take over the democratic process. Sooner or later....all you need is their Parler profile.

One would have to consider the massive influx of new users the "alternative platforms" got in a relatively short amount of time.

For an established platform (that grew at a normal rate), they had time to build up funds/advertisers/etc... to scale their moderation systems. (I touched on it in another thread, but language understanding tools like AWS Lex and Azure LUIS are quite expensive).

Obviously it takes time to acquire new advertisers and funds...

Parler went from from 1 million users in June (many of which were "inactive" users), to 2.5 million by the end of July, and then a huge influx of users in a matter of days following Trump's twitter ban. (they moved to the number 1 spot in terms of app store downloads in the day following the twitter ban)

They're simply not going to be able to ramp up their moderation that quickly.

It be like if ChristianForums doubled it's membership in one month, and then a few months later, re-doubled that number in a matter of two days. They'd have a hard time with the moderation aspect.



With regards to why they'd opt to Russian webhosting?...who knows. As someone who's an IT professional who deals with a fair amount of cloud infrastructure, I wouldn't want any webservers in China, Russia, Venezuela, or Brazil. But then again, I'm not running an open social media platform, I'm dealing in things with credit card processing and confidential customer data, so it's a little different.



I mentioned in a previous thread that there's a downside to ostracizing those with radical beliefs. Sort of like with a cult. The best way to get people out of a cult is to confront them and challenge what they're being told as you're likely going to be able to "de-convert" a lot of them given the time, and not to take the approach of "well, they're weird, so let's just move them over to this walled off area and never interact with them".

They would've been better off leaving the far-right extremists on twitter/FB where they could be confronted for their beliefs...when you send them off into the realm of a dozen different echo chambers, good luck ever getting them back to reality.


My fear is that it's going to be used as an excuse to "squash" any opinions that are right of center on anything.

 

[public hermit]

I mentioned in a previous thread that there's a downside to ostracizing those with radical beliefs. Sort of like with a cult. The best way to get people out of a cult is to confront them and challenge what they're being told as you're likely going to be able to "de-convert" a lot of them given the time, and not to take the approach of "well, they're weird, so let's just move them over to this walled off area and never interact with them".

They would've been better off leaving the far-right extremists on twitter/FB where they could be confronted for their beliefs...when you send them off into the realm of a dozen different echo chambers, good luck ever getting them back to reality.


My fear is that it's going to be used as an excuse to "squash" any opinions that are right of center on anything

I think this is right, if and only if, the competing truth claims are echoed within the same chamber. On FB, people have often eliminated competing voices by "unfriending." Parler, certainly wasn't going to address that specific issue. Nonethless, I think you're right.

Competing voices, if they are in the same ear space, should cancel out the nonsense through shame and approval. But, that's not really happening on any of the platforms, is it? Individuals are voluntarily choosing who speaks the truth and silencing contrary claims.

 

[mala]

One would have to consider the massive influx of new users the "alternative platforms" got in a relatively short amount of time.

For an established platform (that grew at a normal rate), they had time to build up funds/advertisers/etc... to scale their moderation systems. (I touched on it in another thread, but language understanding tools like AWS Lex and Azure LUIS are quite expensive).

Obviously it takes time to acquire new advertisers and funds...

Parler went from from 1 million users in June (many of which were "inactive" users), to 2.5 million by the end of July, and then a huge influx of users in a matter of days following Trump's twitter ban. (they moved to the number 1 spot in terms of app store downloads in the day following the twitter ban)

They're simply not going to be able to ramp up their moderation that quickly.

It be like if ChristianForums doubled it's membership in one month, and then a few months later, re-doubled that number in a matter of two days. They'd have a hard time with the moderation aspect.



With regards to why they'd opt to Russian webhosting?...who knows. As someone who's an IT professional who deals with a fair amount of cloud infrastructure, I wouldn't want any webservers in China, Russia, Venezuela, or Brazil. But then again, I'm not running an open social media platform, I'm dealing in things with credit card processing and confidential customer data, so it's a little different.



I mentioned in a previous thread that there's a downside to ostracizing those with radical beliefs. Sort of like with a cult. The best way to get people out of a cult is to confront them and challenge what they're being told as you're likely going to be able to "de-convert" a lot of them given the time, and not to take the approach of "well, they're weird, so let's just move them over to this walled off area and never interact with them".

They would've been better off leaving the far-right extremists on twitter/FB where they could be confronted for their beliefs...when you send them off into the realm of a dozen different echo chambers, good luck ever getting them back to reality.


My fear is that it's going to be used as an excuse to "squash" any opinions that are right of center on anything.

Though the increase in users would not have helped moderation issues. I recall parler was always lax with moderation to begin with, openly so in fact. That part of the draw of getting users of a certain ilk to sign up for its platform.

 

[High Fidelity]

You don't think the Russians stand to benefit from promoting the rhetoric that Parler has (historically) nurtured? Isn't it an endorsement?

If I, a British person, host a website using an American company for web hosting, does that mean the American government or American people are endorsing the content I put on said website?

 

[public hermit]

If I, a British person, host a website using an American company for web hosting, does that mean the American government or American people are endorsing the content I put on said website?

It's a tacit endorsement if a qualifier is not explicitly presented, but I get your point. There is a sense in which they are just doing business. However, that business is information, i.e. claims about what is and what is not the case. Surely, that amounts to more than a simple transaction.

 

[High Fidelity]

It's a tacit endorsement if a qualifier is not explicitly presented, but I get your point. There is a sense in which they are just doing business. However, that business is information, i.e. claims about what is and what is not the case. Surely, that amounts to more than a simple transaction.

I disagree. It's a transaction between two businesses, one of which happens to be in another country.

 

[MIDutch]

Parler moves to hosting service owned by Russians after ban

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Not surprising at all. Ever since June 16, 2015 a certain segment of the US population (and those who blindly and ignorantly follow it) has been all about the Russians.