Rule of the Theotokos

[Victory123]

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I guess my question, since each "decade"of the prayers to the Theotokos is somehow dedicated to each of various events, was whether that contradicted the EO rule against "imagining" while praying. But I guess not, since each decade is just surrounded by prayers commemorating those events, but you aren't told to trip out on mental images of them.

im·ag·in·ings
iˈmajəniNGz/
noun
plural noun: imaginings
thoughts or fantasies.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Sister, you did nothing wrong by me or by this thread, and I didn't mean to suggest that you had.

I think if I had thought about it more, I wouldn't have needed to post. Just the resemblance to the rosary was so strong, I didn't see the differences. Oh well. Kind of an interesting devotion.

I think it was a good question. Orthodoxy is only firm when it comes to meaning and doctrine, we are very flexible when it comes to articulation. so just because something sounds Latin, if it can be given an Orthodox understanding we'll have a place for it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sister, you did nothing wrong by me or by this thread, and I didn't mean to suggest that you had.

I think if I had thought about it more, I wouldn't have needed to post. Just the resemblance to the rosary was so strong, I didn't see the differences. Oh well. Kind of an interesting devotion.

Thank you for your kindness.

It was a valid question, I think.

 

[Victory123]

Sister, you did nothing wrong by me or by this thread, and I didn't mean to suggest that you had.

I think if I had thought about it more, I wouldn't have needed to post. Just the resemblance to the rosary was so strong, I didn't see the differences. Oh well. Kind of an interesting devotion.

What difference to the "Theotokos"

 

[Hermit76]

Lurkers, Lutherans, and other Lu's as they may appear at diverse times are welcome

 

[Victory123]

Lurkers, Lutherans, and other Lu's as they may appear at diverse times are welcome

Are welcome to do what?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Are welcome to do what?

Everyone is welcome to read here. And post in fellowship, if they wish.

 

[ArmyMatt]

in fact, many have become Orthodox through lurking here and engaging people on this forum.

 

[All4Christ]

in fact, many have become Orthodox through lurking here and engaging people on this forum.

 

[Phronema]

People who visit and read without posting. We have many, at least evidenced by when they begin posting, or sometimes send private messages.

Lurker checking in!

Sister, you did nothing wrong by me or by this thread, and I didn't mean to suggest that you had.

I think if I had thought about it more, I wouldn't have needed to post. Just the resemblance to the rosary was so strong, I didn't see the differences. Oh well. Kind of an interesting devotion.

Heng, I'm glad you asked as I learned from your having asked it. Thank you for that, and to the others who've responded.

 

[RobNJ]

in fact, many have become Orthodox through lurking here and engaging people on this forum.

I resemble that remark!

 

[Hermit76]

Are welcome to do what?

Relax and enjoy the interaction here. We aren't here to argue, fight, and throw stones. That may happen to the best of us on our bad days, but we all understand and move on. So, anyone is welcome to post, read, and so forth. However, we prefer that you do so with kindness and calmness.

 

[gzt]

On the one hand, it's not rocket surgery to come up with this kind of idea. On the other, it's pretty similar to the rosary common in the West so it wouldn't be surprising if it were imported.

 

[ArmyMatt]

there's also the 5 Marian devotions of St Dmitri of Rostov, which are very Western sounding on the surface. stuff has been grafted into Orthodoxy from the West, and just so long as the understanding is Orthodox, it's fine and ours.

 

[buzuxi02]

First the Jew then the Greek. I say predate, because in that region, Jews believed before the Greek. They were simply called Christians. As are all believers. I get all the labeling, but all are simply Christian. Jews there were practicing the faith before the Greek. That is more how I mean it. Thank you for pointing that out. Coptic is a language
Cop·tic
ˈkäptik/
noun
noun: Coptic

1. 1.
   the language of the Copts, which represents the final stage of ancient Egyptian. It now survives only as the liturgical language of the Coptic Church.

adjective
adjective: Coptic

1. 1.
   relating to the Copts or their language. And this was spoken by Jews there in the earliest Christianity.
2. The Coptic Language is the name used to refer to the last stage of the written Egyptian language. Coptic should more correctly be used to refer to the script rather than the language itself. Even though this script was introduced as far back as the 2nd century BC., it is usually applied to the writing of the Egyptian language from the first century AD. to the present day.
3. Jews in Egypt during Christ's time and the apostles used this written language
4. .From Alexandria, Christianity spread throughout Egypt within half a century of Saint Mark's arrival in Alexandria, as is clear from a fragment of the Gospel of John, written in Coptic, which was found in Upper Egypt and can be dated to the first half of the 2nd century, and the New Testament writings found in Oxyrhynchus, ...

Alexandria was a Greek colony. The official language used in Alexandria was Greek. The Coptic language is a Greek dialect with some hieroglyphic language mixed in. Ptolemy''s library in Alexandria was Greek and all the earliest biblical Alexandrian manuscripts are greek. The Copts themselves usually credit Athanasius of 310 AD as being one of the first Coptic speaking bishops of Alexandria acknowledging that most Alexandrian bishops before the schism were Greeks not Copts.

 

[buzuxi02]

Does anyone here use this ever? Is it really an ancient Orthodox custom rediscovered, or an innovation? Is it distinct from the RC practice of meditating on mysteries during the Rosary?

No, it is not an Orthodox custom. This is why it is called the rule of St. Seraphim who lived in the mid 1800's meaning it is not ancient. And that St. Seraphim prayed it is not certain neither.

 

[buzuxi02]

Rule of the Theotokos - Wikipedia

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/files/rule.pdf

The Bombaxo link is a prayer developed by St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky in the early years of the Soviet era not by St.Seraphim of Sarov. Seraphim Zvezdinsky who wrote that prayer rule was a russian bishop who eventually was imprisoned and martyred by the communist authorities.

There is a legitimate prayer rule attributed to St. Seraphim of Sarov which you can Google and is found on many Orthodox sites.

This 'rule of the Theotokos' by Seraphim Zvezdinsky originates from the 1920's, as does the story about a vision to a Thebaid monk in the 8th century revealing the prayer of the rosary in the east.

There are many early biographies of St. Seraphim of Sarov and none are aware of a 150 repitition rosary prayer. The only other account of someone attributing this prayer to st. Seraphim of Sarov was an obscure Fr. Alexander who said his spiritual father an Elder Zosima (who was in turn a spiritual child of St. Seraphim of Sarov) told him about it in a letter.
Most likely this Elder Zozima is the priest in the book, "An Early Soviet Saint, the Life and Times of Fr. Zachariah", translated by Jane Ellis. This Fr. Zachariah was nicknamed Zosima and it's in this book that the tale of this eastern rosary is recorded in again most likely the St. Seraphim is not the saint from Sarov but the communist martyr.

 

[Victory123]

Alexandria was a Greek colony. The official language used in Alexandria was Greek. The Coptic language is a Greek dialect with some hieroglyphic language mixed in. Ptolemy''s library in Alexandria was Greek and all the earliest biblical Alexandrian manuscripts are greek. The Copts themselves usually credit Athanasius of 310 AD as being one of the first Coptic speaking bishops of Alexandria acknowledging that most Alexandrian bishops before the schism were Greeks not Copts.

True! Coptic derives from the Greek. I said the Jews of Egypt used Coptic. Greek was widely spoken and this still makes no difference to the word which comes to Jew then Greek. That was my point. A Jew is a Jew regardless of written language or spoken.And some of the first converts to Christianity in this region were Jews. As much as gentile Greek like to think they are the begin and end all of the faith they are not.

No, it is not an Orthodox custom. This is why it is called the rule of St. Seraphim who lived in the mid 1800's meaning it is not ancient. And that St. Seraphim prayed it is not certain neither.

Yes it is an Orthodox custom to those who still apply it (Rule of Theotokos). All customs and practices derive from some historic application and this is a Coptic one (written , spoken language) of middle eastern origin not from a Greek or Orthodox in terms of tradition but simply Christian from a region where Coptic was in use (written, spoken). Those who conquer leave their language and customs. No difference to ethnic origin of the practice. St. Seraphim learned this prayer from an Egyptian.

Another thing, all Christians should be Orthodox in the application of the faith, as to meaning of the word.\
Orthodoxy (from Greek ορθοδοξία, orthodoxía – "right opinion") is adherence to correct or accepted creeds, especially in religion. In the Christian sense the term means "conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the creeds of the early Church." Just as the faith should be Universally accepted =Universal
agreement2 common to, involving, or proceeding from all in a particular group. 3 applicable to or affecting many individuals, conditions, or cases; general. 4 existing or prevailing everywhere. 5 applicable or occurring throughout or relating to the universe; cosmic. a universal constant.

Point? People take a word and apply it to a denomination then precede to act as though they are the begin and end all of the faith. A Christian- simply put, is one who follows Christ. They should apply to their lives strictly, the word for conduct and behavior as orthodox. And should encourage this as a universal consensus
con·sen·sus
kənˈsensəs/
noun
noun: consensus; plural noun: consensuses
general agreement.
Therefore, all who do this are Orthodox, universal teaching Christians.
Matthew18:19-20
…19Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. 20For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.”

It is thought that St. Mark's first convert to Christianity in Egypt (Anianus) was a Jew due to his Monotheist beliefs. He the second Pope or Bishop after Mark, converted after an accident where he shouted in pain "God is one" at which point St. Mark healed him and converted him. He became Mark's successor .
My point- First to the Jews by the Jews then gentile. Coptic is just a written, spoken language.

 

[buzuxi02]

Victory,
St. Seraphim of Sarov never used this, he is wrongly being attributed. Now I don' know what exact devotions the Copts have, but they do not have a rosary prayer neither. Considering this rule makes mention of toll houses and the feast of the Theotokos of the Protecting veil makes it impossible that this is Coptic in anyway.

And no, The Jews of Egypt did not use Coptic. They spoke Greek this is why the Greek ruler Ptolemy in 280 BC translated the Torah into greek for his library. It was this translaton called the Septuagint that the Jews of the diaspora adopted.

 

[Victory123]

Victory,
St. Seraphim of Sarov never used this, he is wrongly being attributed. Now I don' know what exact devotions the Copts have, but they do not have a rosary prayer neither. Considering this rule makes mention of toll houses and the feast of the Theotokos of the Protecting veil makes it impossible that this is Coptic in anyway.

And no, The Jews of Egypt did not use Coptic. They spoke Greek this is why the Greek ruler Ptolemy in 280 BC translated the Torah into greek for his library. It was this translaton called the Septuagint that the Jews of the diaspora adopted.

.From Alexandria, Christianity spread throughout Egypt within half a century of Saint Mark's arrival in Alexandria, as is clear from a fragment of the Gospel of John, written in Coptic, which was found in Upper Egypt and can be dated to the first half of the 2nd century, and the New Testament writings found in Oxyrhynchus, ...
Fight with History!