Rome and the first church

[alonesoldier]

Since this is the room for history buffs I was wondering about something. From several different sources I have heard several different numbers on how many Christians were killed under Roman Persecution in the first century. Under 'Roman Catacombs' the encyclodedia Britannica actually places the number in the millions. Other sources place it in the thousands. This is a very large gap and I am suspecious of both sides because even the Britannica being owned by a Christian company may have a vested interest in upping the number and other sources down playing it may also have an agenda as well. While an absolute number can never be known does anyone have a ball park figure and legitiment sources to back it up?

 

[SonWorshipper]

How about we start with these?

1. Petar - crucified
2. Andrew - crucified
3. Matthias - killed by the sword
4. John - died by the natural death
5. James, the son of Alpheus - crucified
6. Philip - crucified
7. Simeon - crucified
8. Tadeus - killed by arrows
9. James, brother of Jesus - stoned
10. Thomas - killed by the sword
11. Bartholomew - crucified
12. James, son of Zebedee - killed by the sword

 

[SonWorshipper]

Around 34 A.D., one year after the crucifixion of Jesus,
Stephen was thrown out of Jerusalem and stoned to death. Approximately 2,000 Christians suffered martyrdom in Jerusalem during this period. About 10 years later,
James, the son of Zebedee and the elder brother of John, was killed when Herod Agrippa arrived as governor of Judea. Agrippa detested the Christian sect of Jews, and many early disciples were martyred under his rule, including Timon and Parmenas. Around 54 A.D.,
Philip, a disciple from Bethsaida, in Galilee, suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified. About six years later,
Matthew, the tax-collector from Nazareth who wrote his gospel in Hebrew, was preaching in Ethiopia when he suffered martyrdom by the sword.
James, the brother of Jesus, administered the early church in Jerusalem and was the author of an Epistle by his name. At age 94, he was beat and stoned, and finally had his brains bashed out with a fuller's club.
Matthias was the apostle who filled the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.
Andrew was the brother of Peter who preached the gospel throughout Asia. On his arrival at Edessa, he was arrested and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground (this is where we get the term, St. Andrew's Cross).
Mark was converted to Christianity by Peter, and then transcribed Peter’s account of Jesus in his Gospel. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria in front of Serapis, their pagan idol. It appears
Peter was condemned to death and crucified at Rome. Jerome holds that Peter was crucified upside down, at his own request, because he said he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.
Paul suffered in the first persecution under Nero. Paul’s faith was so dramatic in the face of martyrdom, that the authorities removed him to a private place for execution by the sword.

In about 72 A.D.,
Jude, the brother of James who was commonly called Thaddeus, was crucified at Edessa.
Bartholomew preached in several countries and translated the Gospel of Matthew into the language of India. He was cruelly beaten and then crucified by idolaters there.
Thomas, called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where exciting the rage of the pagan priests, he was martyred by being thrust through with a spear.
Luke was the author of the Gospel under his name. He traveled with Paul through various countries and is supposed to have been hanged on an olive tree by idolatrous priests in Greece.
Barnabas, of Cyprus, was killed without many known facts in about 73 A.D.
Simon, surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain, where he was crucified in about 74 A.D.
John, the "beloved disciple," was the brother of James. From Ephesus he was ordered to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterwards banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.

www.christian-persecution.com

 

[alonesoldier]

True that, but I was refering to the neronian persecution. in 64 A.D

 

[Blackwing]

Good topic. If i have the time i will do some research. Hopefully Wols could help

 

[TScott]

True that, but I was refering to the neronian persecution. in 64 A.D

The Christians persecuted in 64 would not have even reached the thousands. The reason Nero decided to blame the great fire on them was because they were a small, unpopular Jewish cult. The persecution was, however quite horrific. Nero ordered Christians soaked in pitch and set ablaze to light his Vatican gardens. It was expressly because of these martyrs that the gardens were chosen as the site for the Roman church

 

[Islander]

I couldn't find anything at Britannica about millions of people killed. It did say there were 50,000 Christians in the city of Rome around the 3rd century AD which makes me doubt millions could have been killed in the first century. A number in the millions seems doubtful to me any way unless you were talking about several centuries time or some time in the present which obviously makes Roman history off the topic.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Since this is the room for history buffs I was wondering about something. From several different sources I have heard several different numbers on how many Christians were killed under Roman Persecution in the first century. Under 'Roman Catacombs' the encyclodedia Britannica actually places the number in the millions. Other sources place it in the thousands. This is a very large gap and I am suspecious of both sides because even the Britannica being owned by a Christian company may have a vested interest in upping the number and other sources down playing it may also have an agenda as well. While an absolute number can never be known does anyone have a ball park figure and legitiment sources to back it up?

The millions number simply does not survive **** detection. To kill millions of Jews, Hitler required a concentrated program lasting several years and drawing from the population of Central Europe during a time when the population of Europe was vastly larger than in Roman times. For Nero to be able to find, let along kill, a million Christians would be simply impossible.

 

[tcampen]

There would have had to of been millions in the first century to be able to kill millions. If "millions" really were killed then, it would have wiped out the Christians, the Gnostics, a few smaller Jewish sects, and a load of pagans just to get the numbers.

Were there a number of martyrs? Sure. But the list used by SonWorshipper below is highly suspect and looks very much like Foxes’ "Christian Martyrs of the World" which was written during the
reformation and is often considered of dubious reliability.

 

[jatfla]

I can't really help you with the numbers, but I came across this site:

http://www.catacombe.roma.it/welcome.html

For those who haven't seen it and are interested, it's very informative. A lot of stuff and details there.

 

[Volos]

Originally posed by : tcampen
There would have had to of been millions in the first century to be able to kill millions. If "millions" really were killed then, it would have wiped out the Christians, the Gnostics, a few smaller Jewish sects, and a load of pagans just to get the numbers.

Ancient Rome was 13.86 sq. km in size. Some have claimed a million residents of the city but that would make the population density is the astonishingly high density of 72,150 persons per sq. km slightly higher than the population density of modern Hong Kong. Obviously there were considerably less than a million people

One source places 40,000 adult slaves and these formed one third of the adult population. Meaning a much more reasonable population of 120,000 for Rome.
http://opera.prohosting.com/sarir/roman empire.html

This make the number 50,000 absolutely ridiculous.

If I had to guess I would put the number at significantly less than 500.