Cygnus said:explained in full .... http://www.christianforums.com/showp...&postcount=162 ..... you must not splice scriptures or add your own words to them .. now repent.
Do you really think that God ordains SIN?Post162 said:You have done your usual TRICK ben , and I urge the reader to look into this carefully.
You are splicing different scriptures together in a most underhanded way.
I looked at your first post here concerning Judas , and noticed you quoted two scriptures from DIFFERENT parts of the Bible , then I look at this post and my suspicions were automatically aroused when I noticed you didn't even bother to reference what you said scripture said , and after going and looking I can see why!!!!!!!!
First John 15
16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
No mention of "GOOD" fruit ......... seems ben has added his bit to make it say what it doesn't say .
And --- how can one for whom sin and unbelief is ordained, ask and receive in the Father's name???
How can "ordained-sin", make sense to you? God is incapable of ordaining sin; He causes no sin, nor does He tempt anyone.
Exactly! "If you DO". Not "If I've sovereignly chosen".Also you are ignoring context , who is the people he is talking to ? He calls them his friends , but there is a condition .........
v14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Where is the verse that said "Judas was stealing from the purse"?This is the context , is Judas fulfilling this criteria ? Did Judas do whatever Christ commanded him ? Was Judas a friend while he was stealing from the common purse ? such questions don't need answering , they are self disclosing.
Sorry, Cygnus --- the twelve chosen in Jn6:70, are the same twelve chosen in Jn15:16.NEXT ;
John 6
6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
The fact that 12 were chosen is niether here nor there , over a million people were "chosen " to leave Egypt , but few had faith and were saved , only a remnant (also chosen) are said to be saved by Grace.
He chose all twelve, and He chose them to be Disciples and ordained them to bear fruit that remained; and whatever they asked of the Father in Jesus' name would be done.
Where does it say "Judas was never a believer"?the question is does this selection of Judas add up to Judas being a believer ..... you say yes , but scripture says NO!
Have you checked the verb tenses in that verse? It says, "Jesus knew (had known) from the beginning who believe (present, 'ARE BELIEVING') not". There is nothing that indicates Judas never believed.John 6
6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
I am "guilty", if the "TWELVE" in Jn6:70, are different from the "TWELVE" in Jn15:16.clearly you are guilty of splicing texts , ignoring context and making scripture say what it doesn't ... I would recommend you REPENT .
"A careful eye", over anyone's theology, is both desired and beneficial.and may the reader keep a careful eye over ben's well worn techniques.
Which God ordained --- right?The Fruit of the Spirit is what believers have , the fruit of unbelievers is what Judas had.
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