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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Romans 9
- Thread starter gmm4j
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Instead of asking another to help , help yourself
Why not love your neighbor as yourself and help him cygnus?
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2 Peter 1:5-11
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness...10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Your election is not sure unless your faith is genuine.
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
- Apr 12, 2004
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How is that relevant to my post ?
Arminians say we are chosen on the basis of faith
Calvinists say we are chosen unto faith
Scripture says we are chosen unto faith
Election is always sure to God , the assurance of election in us is another matter entirely .
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JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
Instead of asking another to help , help yourself
I. It is late here i the UK and I have an early start.
2. Like yourself cx1, I have not been through Bible college.
Hence suggesting GM. Particularly as he was online at the time.
Hope this helps.
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JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
Bible college ? Oh dear
That rules out Jesus and all the Apostles then
Jesus, Apostles - had a big advantage nes't pas ?
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Shulamite
My Bridegroom suffered this for ME
Bible college ? Oh dear
That rules out Jesus and all the Apostles then
Amen. I'd rather be "Spirit-taught" than "seminary" taught any day.
Acts 4:13..."When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."
John 7:15 The Jews were amazed and asked, "How did this man get such learning without having studied?"
Galations 1:12..."I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.
On and on and on it goes. We are to be taught the deep, relevatory things of God BY the Spirit of God. "man teaching man" the traditions of men will never bring revelation of Jesus' heart. Only Jesus can impart His heart to you by His own doing and revelation. Even then, He has to CHOOSE to do this for you. It's His to portion to every man/woman a measure of faith.
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You just added "in us" to the text. It does not say: "be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure within yourself". It says,
"Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." - 2 Peter 1:10-11
This verse shows that falling and being received into the Kingdom is at stake with this election. Our calling and election hinge on doing "these things" (because they are a result of genuine faith). It is not just being sure of it "in us" so we feel better that we "elect" will never fall and will receive a rich welcome because we've been elected to it.
God has sovereignly chosen to elect those who genuinely have faith in Him.
Without the signs of genuine faith your election/welcome into the Kingdom is not sure; not just "to you" or "your perception", but in actuality.
And, yes of course, God knows those He has elected because they will have genuine faith; He has elected them upon this basis. This is why He tells us in 2 Peter to make sure our faith is genuine because it affects our election, not the other way around.
Arminians say we are chosen on the basis of faith
Calvinists say we are chosen unto faith
Scripture says we are chosen on the basis of faith
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
- Apr 12, 2004
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I added nothing to the text , the text in question is written to Christians so that they may gain assurance over their personal election , The Lord doesn't need assurance of who the elect are , He Knows
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JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
From your understanding !
OK, thanks for that.
Personally I thought having the Holy Spirit would be a big advantage.
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JackSparrow
Well-Known Member
Well seeing as its me posting , der yes my understanding does come into my posts , how about you ?
Guided by the Holy Spirit
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
- Apr 12, 2004
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Guided by the Holy Spirit
So your understanding is bypassed ?
Mmmm sounds like hyper calvinism to me !
I certainly pray and hope my understanding is guided by Gods Holy Spirit , but I don't feel lead of the Spirit to direct attention to Him but to Christ .
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I added nothing to the text , the text in question is written to Christians so that they may gain assurance over their personal election , The Lord doesn't need assurance of who the elect are , He Knows
Does their assurance of election or their lack of it, affect their being received into the Kingdom?
According to your version of election, their assurance would have no affect on them falling or being welcomed into the Kingdom, and Peter would have said so.
Instead our election by the Father is based upon the condition of genuine faith. This is why we are told to add to our faith these proofs of genuine faith, thus making our election and our subsequent welcome into the Kingdom sure.
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