Romans 9

[cygnusx1]

Does their assurance of election or their lack of it, affect their being received into the Kingdom?

According to your version of election, their assurance would have no affect on them falling or being welcomed into the Kingdom, and Peter would have said so.

Instead our election by the Father is based upon the condition of genuine faith. This is why we are told to add to our faith these proofs of genuine faith, thus making our election and our subsequent welcome into the Kingdom sure.

All conditions are met in Christ , statements of facts are not conditions .

The just shall live by faith is a statement , not a condition , else salvation certainly would be by works !

Salvation is a renouncing of all self works , self righteousness and human conditionalism (merit mongery)

We are not saved because we believed , even devils believe , we are saved by Gods work , the drowning man isn't saved because he organised the search party at sea , he isn't even saved because he chose the life guards help , he is saved through , NOT on the basis of , his cooperation.

Christ is the hero , and placing salvation upon conditionalism robs Christ of the praise , it becomes obvious that it leads to "Christ saved me because I allowed him to " Christ would have nothing to boast of .... But I say He has everything to boast of , He ordained , He searched and found , He interceded , He died , He carried , He does it all , even washing the disciples feet , not because they agreed but because He showered them with grace .

If Gods love is conditional it is no better than mans , in fact mans is in rare cases unconditional which would make man a candidate for better love , which is obviously not right.

 

[gmm4j]

All conditions are met in Christ , statements of facts are not conditions .

The just shall live by faith is a statement , not a condition , else salvation certainly would be by works !

Salvation is a renouncing of all self works , self righteousness and human conditionalism (merit mongery)

We are not saved because we believed , even devils believe , we are saved by Gods work , the drowning man isn't saved because he organised the search party at sea , he isn't even saved because he chose the life guards help , he is saved through , NOT on the basis of , his cooperation.

Christ is the hero , and placing salvation upon conditionalism robs Christ of the praise , it becomes obvious that it leads to "Christ saved me because I allowed him to " Christ would have nothing to boast of .... But I say He has everything to boast of , He ordained , He searched and found , He interceded , He died , He carried , He does it all , even washing the disciples feet , not because they agreed but because He showered them with grace .

If Gods love is conditional it is no better than mans , in fact mans is in rare cases unconditional which would make man a candidate for better love , which is obviously not right.

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household."

 

[cygnusx1]

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household."

Command with a promise , and a fact !

Conditionalism overthrows and blights love .

We are saved because God who is rich in mercy loved us , granting us faith , repentance and all things that pertain to Godliness.

We are not saved because God set an objective cold calculated condition , that would be salvation by *indifference* instead of salvation by love.

The *indifference* would truly mean Gods love , his compassion and mercy would be nullified in salvation , for the cause of salvation would be found in obedience to a test (faith) rather than salvation turning upon the mercy of God , what need for mercy when a person can simply avoid hell by a simple decision ?

 

[gmm4j]

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household."

Command with a promise , and a fact !

A command to the person in response to his question, "what must I do to be saved?"

 

[Jack Terrence]

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved-you and your household."

So where did the prison keeper's desire to be saved come from?

 

[gmm4j]

So where did the prison keeper's desire to be saved come from?

The same place an unregenerate sinner trapped in the rubble of the twin towers wanted to be saved.

 

[Arcoe]

So where did the prison keeper's desire to be saved come from?

From where does the Calvinist's desire to not believe Ezekiel 18:31 originate?

 

[cygnusx1]

From where does the Calvinist's desire to not believe Ezekiel 18:31 originate?

The figment of your imagination ?

 

[Arcoe]

The figment of your imagination ?

It is? Then tell us all you believe it. Tell us you believe man must cast away his transgressions to make himself a new heart and spirit. And tell us you not only believe it, but also do this to make yourself a new heart.

 

[cygnusx1]

Tell me how you did it Archoe how did you make yourself a new heart , what tools and what substance ? How long did it take and how big is it ?

 

[Shulamite]

It is? Then tell us all you believe it. Tell us you believe man must cast away his transgressions to make himself a new heart and spirit. And tell us you not only believe it, but also do this to make yourself a new heart.

I can testify that I did not make myself a new heart and spirit. I didn't even "make" myself physically, I certainly could not make myself spiritually. If I can make myself into a new being, then do I need God?

This command from God to make yourself a new spirit and heart is the "result" of God's already doing so in you and you then coming to realization that THAT is what actually took place. We are the clay, He is the potter. Jesus said, "Did He that made the outside not make the inside also?"

 

[Arcoe]

Tell me how you did it Archoe how did you make yourself a new heart , what tools and what substance ? How long did it take and how big is it ?

It's in the Bible, if you would just study and BELIEVE it.

 

[Arcoe]

I can testify that I did not make myself a new heart and spirit. I didn't even "make" myself physically, I certainly could not make myself spiritually. If I can make myself into a new being, then do I need God?

No offense, but did you cast away your transgressions to make yourself a new heart? Or have you kept your transgressions inside you?

Why would you not need God to make yourself a new heart. Does He not give you the ability to abstain from wickedness, to cast away your transgressions?

As I have heard other Calvinists say, God does things through means. Who is to question God's truth that the means to God giving you a new heart is casting away our transgressions? This is very much like the clay questioning the potter. The potter has said to cast away your transgressions; will the clay talk back to the potter?

This command from God to make yourself a new spirit and heart is the "result" of God's already doing so in you and you then coming to realization that THAT is what actually took place. We are the clay, He is the potter. Jesus said, "Did He that made the outside not make the inside also?"

I think the verse says the result of a new heart is casting away our transgressions. How can one realize they have cast away their transgressions, if they do not cast them away? I don't understand your logic.

Jesus also said from within, that is, from the heart proceed all sins, and told us to cleanse the inside, and the outside would be clean also.

 

[Shulamite]

Posted by Arcoe: "I don't understand your logic."

That's okay, didn't think you would

"I am what I am by the "GRACE" of God. Not by my own doing.
(to quote Paul ) I am a wretched woman and live in a body of death. Who will save me? Oh yeah! The Lord Jesus!

 

[cygnusx1]

Does their assurance of election or their lack of it, affect their being received into the Kingdom?

According to your version of election, their assurance would have no affect on them falling or being welcomed into the Kingdom, and Peter would have said so.

Instead our election by the Father is based upon the condition of genuine faith. This is why we are told to add to our faith these proofs of genuine faith, thus making our election and our subsequent welcome into the Kingdom sure.

2 Tim 2

The assurance of salvation is based upon an assurance of election and calling , if we are to enter a secure place what better than an understanding of election that sees salvation based upon Gods work , and a experimental understanding of our calling , being called out from the crowd , being called away from the world and its principles , being made to differ .

Some think God is uncertain or has to wait upon the elect to make certain their election , as if God is uncertain who He elected , they think election is conditional upon mans responses .... So , obey and you get elected ; misbehave and you get deselected and so on . This is contrary to scripture , The Lord knows every single person who is elect , He has always known them,

2 Tim 2


[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[gmm4j]

2 Tim 2

The assurance of salvation is based upon an assurance of election and calling , if we are to enter a secure place what better than an understanding of election that sees salvation based upon Gods work , and a experimental understanding of our calling , being called out from the crowd , being called away from the world and its principles , being made to differ .

Some think God is uncertain or has to wait upon the elect to make certain their election , as if God is uncertain who He elected , they think election is conditional upon mans responses .... So , obey and you get elected ; misbehave and you get deselected and so on . This is contrary to scripture , The Lord knows every single person who is elect , He has always known them,

2 Tim 2


[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Of course God knows those who make their calling and election sure by genuine faith.

 

[cygnusx1]

It's in the Bible, if you would just study and BELIEVE it.

That's not answering my questions

 

[cygnusx1]

Of course God knows those who make their calling and election sure by genuine faith.

Did God know who would be saved before Adam sinned ?

 

[gmm4j]

Did God know who would be saved before Adam sinned ?

Of course God knows those who make their calling and election sure by genuine faith.

 

[Arcoe]

That's not answering my questions

Did you cast away your transgressions to make yourself a new heart, or have you kept your transgressions within you?