Roman church errors and inventions

[Rick Otto]

It's called "Bait & Switch".

 

[squint]

It's called "Bait & Switch".

heh heh heh

A very common business practice!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

has the source of the above "information" been provided ?

Don't think it was.

 

[E.C.]

When something pagan is renamed as something Christian, that is flat out wrong. There is no way around that, no matter how you try and justify it.

Only God could take something evil (pagan) and turn it into good (Christian).

If you think that just because "this" and "that" have one similar letter between them and thus both are evil, than you have no business calling yourself a Christian. Because saying that "this" and "that" are both evil, when only one is, just because they have one thing in common is to believe that God can not take something evil and make it good.

 

[goliwog]

Only God could take something evil (pagan) and turn it into good (Christian).

If you think that just because "this" and "that" have one similar letter between them and thus both are evil, than you have no business calling yourself a Christian. Because saying that "this" and "that" are both evil, when only one is, just because they have one thing in common is to believe that God can not take something evil and make it good.

I think the problem though is sanctification. If we are to be seperate from the world can we really justify pagan elements in our religion? I would like to bring up a similar situation .. when the jews left egypt they were very strict to give up egyptain ways

"And it came to pass the self-same day , that the lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by thier armies, And The lord spake unto Moses saying "sanctify unto me all the firstborn , whatsoever openeth the womb amoung the children of Israel" Ex 12:51-13:2"


Many verses tell the jews not to conform to other cultures they encounter. Yet it is clear that they did pick up some things from other cultures. Apparently the idea that angels have wings came from Persian Zoroastrianism ... so what can I say ... on one side its very clear that we are not to take on elements of other religions but it seems that its been done over and over again ...

It truelly is puzzling... although having said that i think thier are more important things to God such as Loving God and your neighbours... and we must also be careful nbot to become legalistic

 

[Rick Otto]

It's the reverse of Constantine painting cross's on his soldier's shields before the Basttle of the Milvan Bridge.

He knew they could only fight half-heartedly if what they believed was outlawed by their own country.

Once he outlawed & professed christianity, everyone who wanted influence at court followed suit, and of course the heathen on their property had to do the same if they didn't want to be homeless.
In this way, Christendom became distinct from Christianity, and as the ECF began to emulate Constantine & the monolithic power structure, Churchianity was born.

If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em,... and become their leader!

I learned that on the playground at Parochial school.

 

[Thekla]

When something pagan is renamed as something Christian, that is flat out wrong. There is no way around that, no matter how you try and justify it.

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." is ancient Babylonian law. Should we toss out the Old Testament ?

 

[NoDoubt]

The reason why this was done is simple and sad. People who were in the Roman empire had grown up with worshipping various deities, many of which originated in Babylon. In order to placate the masses and make Christianity more palatable to them, there was an adoption of many of the pagan gods, rites and rituals into Christianity. It was largely a political move to make the empire more cohesive and a move by some who 'couldn't see the harm' in making compromises to get more people through the door.

God doesn't compromise.

I agree 100% with this and have so many archeological resources (documents, artifacts etc) I have studied over the years that attest to this.

 

[Rick Otto]

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." is ancient Babylonian law. Should we toss out the Old Testament ?

They learned it from one of Noah's kids, probably Shem.

 

[E.C.]

I think the problem though is sanctification. If we are to be seperate from the world can we really justify pagan elements in our religion? I would like to bring up a similar situation .. when the jews left egypt they were very strict to give up egyptain ways

Obviously you completely missed the point of my post.

The logic you are following is like this: dogs have four legs, cows have four legs; therefore dogs are cows.

That is what you are thinking. And it is false.

Many verses tell the jews not to conform to other cultures they encounter. Yet it is clear that they did pick up some things from other cultures. Apparently the idea that angels have wings came from Persian Zoroastrianism ... so what can I say ... on one side its very clear that we are not to take on elements of other religions but it seems that its been done over and over again ...

Or maybe the Zoroastrians were influenced by the Jews.

 

[Thekla]

if we are going to take this seriously, then thorough research must be done. Then, assembling all sources over the course of human history, anything in Christianity bearing any similarity to anything non-Christian should be summarily booted out.

 

[NoDoubt]

They learned it from one of Noah's kids, probably Shem.

And we are Japheth's descendants.

My son is half-Jewish. So he's half Shem, half-Japheth!

 

[Rick Otto]

if we are going to take this seriously, then thorough research must be done. Then, assembling all sources over the course of human history, anything in Christianity bearing any similarity to anything non-Christian should be summarily booted out.

Serious resaech is useless without common sense.

 

[Thekla]

just be careful to

1. closely investigate your sources
2. know the bias (personal, cultural, academic and theoretical) of your source
3. not mistake "coincidence" with intention (ex., humans do bear similar ethical traits, quest for meaning, etc. We are, after all, created)
4. weed out your own bias (which can involve a lot of prayerful self-searching), both personal and cultural

 

[Thekla]

I've read, in some of these sources, that Astarte was worshiped in ancient Britain. Watch out Bodaceia

 

[Thekla]

Serious resaech is useless without common sense.

this sort of accusation tends to lack precisely this !

 

[Philothei]

as the ECF began to emulate Constantine & the monolithic power structure, Churchianity was born.

And you honesty think you would have a Bible if it was not for the ECF??? Ah.... are you also implying that the Bible is monolithic....You better watch out ...you are shooting your own foot....

 

[goliwog]

Obviously you completely missed the point of my post.

The logic you are following is like this: dogs have four legs, cows have four legs; therefore dogs are cows.

That is what you are thinking. And it is false.


Or maybe the Zoroastrians were influenced by the Jews.

Hmmm well i STILL think that some of the principles and concepts That God put on the jews still apply to us

As for Zoroastrianism its a cultural thing , perhaps even a form of syncretism... Jews have angels Zorastrians have Angels , Zorastrians always portray thier angels particularly thier God with Wings ... Jews didnt start Portraying Angels with wings until after the captivity...

What is your view on syncretism ?

 

[k2svpete]

Ok, so where shall we start this. Someone want to pick something out and we go from there? Here's a list to consider:

Mother and child worship
Mary worship
Saints, saints' days & praying to saints
Obelisks, temples & towers
The cross
'Holy' relics
Religious frauds such as indulgences
Peter as the first pope
Pagan origins of the Papal office
Infallibility of popes
Celibacy of the priesthood
Mass & practices therein
Religous festivals, such as fish on Good Friday
Christmas.

Now while not all of these are exclusive to the catholic system, most are. So who wants to pick one?

 

[Rick Otto]

yer talkin' to EOs, my fellow "hater" (LOL)